Torment: Tides of Numenera Catch-All

A track from the game, sounds like it could be straight out of the original PS:T

https://soundcloud.com/kirkhamilton/...

Oh wow. Chills, anyone? Because I'm definitely feeling 'em.
I was all kinds of ecstatic when I heard Mark Morgan was doing the soundtrack, and this just confirms that it'll be awesome. I just love his work, and this track is no exception.

Wow, I'm listening to it now, that's amazing. So evocative of strange and mysterious places. My first thought was of a jungle, with your main character somehow alone, and searching for the rest of the party.

500k more and Patrick Rothfus joins as a writer!

NathanialG wrote:

500k more and Patrick Rothfus joins as a writer!

Holy crap. He should be off writing more Kvothe stories!

Lester_King wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

500k more and Patrick Rothfus joins as a writer!

Holy crap. He should be off writing more Kvothe stories!

No sh*t! Maybe that should be a stretch goal? ? ?

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Lester_King wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

500k more and Patrick Rothfus joins as a writer!

Holy crap. He should be off writing more Kvothe stories!

No sh*t! Maybe that should be a stretch goal? ? ?

750k more and Patrick Rothfuss leaves as writer to write more Kvothe stories!

5. This is the first step in my extended master plan. If this goes well, it means we’re *much* more likely to see a Kingkiller game. More importantly, a Kingkiller game I’ll be able to have a direct hand in. Personally, I think that would about a thousand flavors of awesome.

That sneaky bastard.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
5. This is the first step in my extended master plan. If this goes well, it means we’re *much* more likely to see a Kingkiller game. More importantly, a Kingkiller game I’ll be able to have a direct hand in. Personally, I think that would about a thousand flavors of awesome.

That sneaky bastard.

Almost as awesome as the third book in the trilogy.

Chris Avellone joins in at 3.5M USD. Squee!

wanderingtaoist wrote:

Chris Avellone joins in at 3.5M USD. Squee!

That combined with Rothfuss put the final nail in the coffin of my skepticism. The $45 tier is a damn good deal. Hopefully it actually gets to 3.5.

wanderingtaoist wrote:

Chris Avellone joins in at 3.5M USD. Squee!

Upgraded my journal, I mean my pledge to 80.

Seriously considering upgrading it to like 130 dollars now u_u

$3.5M Stretch Goal – Chris Avellone

Our $3.5M Stretch Goal will add Chris Avellone to our team. You’ve probably heard of him, as he was the lead designer for Planescape™: Torment, the game that inspired us to create this project. Chris will be the first to say PS:T was a team effort, but he was its creative visionary and wrote the lion’s share of the game. He later cofounded Obsidian Entertainment, where he is the Creative Director. Chris was the lead designer for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, and has contributed his design expertise to every project Obsidian has developed. He also worked with inXile on Wasteland 2 last year, including designing the area showcased in our gameplay first look video.

Of course, from the start, we hoped Chris could contribute to Torment as well. But as recently as a couple weeks ago (16 days to be precise), we didn’t know whether Torment would even fund. And besides, Chris’s commitment to Project Eternity made it unclear whether he’d have the time. Given his key role in Planescape™: Torment, and the respect he has earned from the game’s fans, we didn’t want to even hint that Chris might be involved unless we were certain it would be possible. Our unexpectedly strong start – because of you – made it an option we could explore. So explore we did. We’ve been able to work out the scheduling matters so that Chris can contribute to Torment without impacting Project Eternity.

At $3.5M, Chris will be joining our design team. He’ll have two primary roles. First, he will be reviewing and providing feedback on all creative elements of the game, including the story, characters, and areas. His input will be invaluable as a resource to Colin in further detailing the creative vision for the game. Second, he’ll be designing and writing an eighth companion for the game, working with Colin and Monte to craft a companion ideal for both Torment and the Ninth World of Numenera.

We are truly excited at the possibility that Chris could collaborate with us on Torment.

Other Things

We have a few other things to mention.

$2.85M Stretch Goal – Achieved!

Thanks to you, we’ll be implementing the Extensive Epilogue to give each playthrough a more thorough conclusion. (See our Stretch Goal information on tumblr for more information.) You surged us past this Stretch Goal less than a day after we announced it!

$3.35M Stretch Goal – Castoff’s Labyrinth gains new feature: Lacunae

Not everyone in the Labyrinth has a living counterpart. Lacunae are figments of your mind that represent parts of yourself (or do they?). Through conversing with a Lacuna, you’ll discover puzzles and quests, and might even enhance your own abilities. As we delve to deeper fathoms, you’ll be able to find more Lacunae with whom to interact. (The Fourth Fathom is less than 2000 backers away!)

This is shaping up to be the RPG of legend of this decade with all these writers.

wanderingtaoist wrote:

Chris Avellone joins in at 3.5M USD. Squee!

This is so exciting!

Well, sometime in the last few hours, they exceeded the Wasteland take: Wasteland finished at the official total of $2,933,252, while Numenara is, at this exact second, at $2,936,766, about $3K more. And it still has 13 days to go, so $3.5mil is a definite possibility.

That's pretty wild, that a game company can pull in six million bucks from fans, based purely on name recognition, without having actually shipped anything yet.

I'm in with both feet on both products, so I'm part of the reason why they can get six million bucks, but I'm still impressed that there's that much interest in such an old game format.

Hopefully they can ship Wasteland before they start their third ask; if Wasteland is really great, they could do five million easy. Of course, by then, they may not need Kickstarter so much anymore.

I want to contribute but I know for a fact that I don't have the patience to play one of these games again. I've tried.

Malor wrote:

I'm in with both feet on both products, so I'm part of the reason why they can get six million bucks, but I'm still impressed that there's that much interest in such an old game format.

Hopefully they can ship Wasteland before they start their third ask; if Wasteland is really great, they could do five million easy. Of course, by then, they may not need Kickstarter so much anymore.

I think it's pretty strong evidence of something that some of the very experienced game developers (Like, say, Tim Schafer) have been saying/hoping for a while: the publishers are out of touch with the market. It wasn't that long ago that the sequel to freaking X-Com was going to be an FPS. And the Syndicate game was an FPS, despite the fact that, outside of a few big names, midrange FPS titles don't actually break sales records.

Now, a lot of devs are out of touch too, since I still hear from people who's big idea is to clone the last big idea...but they're no longer dominating the conversation like it felt like they were in the '90s-and early '00s. (Are there any WoW clones still in development? Have publishers finally realized you don't beat Coke by making RC Cola?)

Now, to be fair, a lot of the publisher focus is because they, like the movie industry, have bet everything on blockbuster hits. (And F2P/IAP/DLC, but that's a different thread.) We've got indies and AAA development, and now Kickstarter is starting to bring back the mid-ranged market. And there are a huge number of niches that were abandoned by the bigger fish, niches that apparently still have vocal fanbases.

This is probably just me being bitter because I want a sequel to Mirror's Edge.

Gremlin wrote:

I think it's pretty strong evidence of something that some of the very experienced game developers (Like, say, Tim Schafer) have been saying/hoping for a while: the publishers are out of touch with the market. It wasn't that long ago that the sequel to freaking X-Com was going to be an FPS. And the Syndicate game was an FPS, despite the fact that, outside of a few big names, midrange FPS titles don't actually break sales records.

This. It also explains the rise of the independents, as designers put together teams to do concept games. I view Wasteland 2 and Torment and the like not as AAA titles, but rather as AAA devs funding games in the independent style. I'm really, really hoping this is a counterbalance to EA and the others. If Wasteland 2 does tens of millions, you can bet the big companies will change the way they do business.

Oh, and they released Syndicate? I didn't even notice; I stopped paying attention when they announced that it would be an FPS. I guess it was a blockbuster, eh?

Robear wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

I think it's pretty strong evidence of something that some of the very experienced game developers (Like, say, Tim Schafer) have been saying/hoping for a while: the publishers are out of touch with the market. It wasn't that long ago that the sequel to freaking X-Com was going to be an FPS. And the Syndicate game was an FPS, despite the fact that, outside of a few big names, midrange FPS titles don't actually break sales records.

This. It also explains the rise of the independents, as designers put together teams to do concept games. I view Wasteland 2 and Torment and the like not as AAA titles, but rather as AAA devs funding games in the independent style. I'm really, really hoping this is a counterbalance to EA and the others. If Wasteland 2 does tens of millions, you can bet the big companies will change the way they do business.

Oh, and they released Syndicate? I didn't even notice; I stopped paying attention when they announced that it would be an FPS. I guess it was a blockbuster, eh? :-)

Well, to be fair, 3 million is chump change compared to most AAA games. I do have pretty high expectations for this game, but I still expect it to look like a "budget" title. They're focusing a lot of their pitch on how good the writing is, which seems smart to me - writing is a whole lot cheaper than whiz-bang graphics and voice acting.

I love that Kickstarter has opened this space up, but I'm doubtful that it will ultimately have much impact on the way really big companies operate. I imagine they'll remain content to cede this market since the scale is so much smaller than they're used to dealing with now.

Malor wrote:

That's pretty wild, that a game company can pull in six million bucks from fans, based purely on name recognition, without having actually shipped anything yet.

They have shipped games before, middling/mobile games like The Bard's Tale or Choplifter HD. One of their recent bigger games, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, was apparently so embarrassingly unsuccessful that they don't even list it on their company website anymore. So I guess that makes the success of these Kickstarters even more wild.

Latrine wrote:
Malor wrote:

That's pretty wild, that a game company can pull in six million bucks from fans, based purely on name recognition, without having actually shipped anything yet.

They have shipped games before, middling/mobile games like The Bard's Tale or Choplifter HD. One of their recent bigger games, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, was apparently so embarrassingly unsuccessful that they don't even list it on their company website anymore. So I guess that makes the success of these Kickstarters even more wild.

It helps, I think, that they have some names tied on that do have a track record. InXile, before the Kickstarters, was a bit like Toys for Bob, a small studio with some devs who had done world class work in the past but was constrained by what they could get funding for.

In the case of Toys for Bob, Paul Reiche III, just by himself, had worked on Mail Order Monsters, Archon, Starflight, Star Control II, and a bunch more. And then the spent the early part of the last decade working on tie-in games until being bought out by Activision. (Though the tie-in games could have been really good for all I know.) That story kind of also has a happy ending, because in 2011 they released Skylanders.

My concern with Wasteland 2, Project Infinity, and Torment: Tides of Numenera is that, to me, it seems a large part of the audience has already paid for the game by funding it. I hope their is more people that will buy these games after they've been released.

What's cool, though, is that because the development is fully paid for, they're fine no matter what. With AAA development, they usually have to ship 2 or 3 million copies just to break even, but with these games, they have to sell zero. Anything they actually do sell is money good.

As long as they use less money to make the games than we've given them, their risk is zero; the entire risk is on us, because we prepaid for a game that wasn't made yet. From a fiscal/financial perspective; that's an ideal situation to be in; it means they're absolutely free to make exactly what they want to make. And if they do end up selling a zillion copies, everyone wins.

By splitting the risk across so very many people, none of us will be terribly hurt if the games bomb.

In a way, you can make a very strong case that we (the people paying) are all being stupid. But, because we're being only a little stupid, it works out.

Malor wrote:

What's cool, though, is that because the development is fully paid for, they're fine no matter what. With AAA development, they usually have to ship 2 or 3 million copies just to break even, but with these games, they have to sell zero. Anything they actually do sell is money good.

As long as they use less money to make the games than we've given them, their risk is zero; the entire risk is on us, because we prepaid for a game that wasn't made yet. From a fiscal/financial perspective; that's an ideal situation to be in; it means they're absolutely free to make exactly what they want to make. And if they do end up selling a zillion copies, everyone wins.

By splitting the risk across so very many people, none of us will be terribly hurt if the games bomb.

In a way, you can make a very strong case that we (the people paying) are all being stupid. But, because we're being only a little stupid, it works out.

I've always looked at the money raised by Kickstarter as going in to the development and anything kept for profit is disingenuous. I'm not sure how the financials are supposed to work with kickstarter. If a developer broke it down for me, I'd be much more willing to accept that view.

I think we're being very stupid with our money but, hey, it's heart warming and encouraging to be able to say "I want this. I'm willing to give you the money to try to do it."

Vector wrote:

I've always looked at the money raised by Kickstarter as going in to the development and anything kept for profit is disingenuous. I'm not sure how the financials are supposed to work with kickstarter. If a developer broke it down for me, I'd be much more willing to accept that view.

I think we're being very stupid with our money but, hey, it's heart warming and encouraging to be able to say "I want this. I'm willing to give you the money to try to do it."

If you've been watching the Double Fine videos, you'll see that even the best managed projects can be off by a bit. That said, for most of these teams I'm pretty confident that every last Kickstarter dime went toward the project itself because the kind of people they have working on those games are the kind of people you have to make go home at the end of the day. A Planescape Torment sequel is their dream project too, and I imagine they're probably emotionally invested in its success.

Vector wrote:

My concern with Wasteland 2, Project Infinity, and Torment: Tides of Numenera is that, to me, it seems a large part of the audience has already paid for the game by funding it. I hope their is more people that will buy these games after they've been released.

Yes, but on the other hand any additional sales at all is profit (assuming 100% of KS funds go to development and that the game magically uses exactly that amount of money, both highly unlikely I would think, the latter more unlikely than the former).

Since I don't usually do Kickstarter (and did not for these games in particular), me, I'm profit. I will (probably) buy these games when released. I will (probably) pay full price. I'm 100% profit (given the caveats above, etc. etc.). I would be surprised if I am the only one.

tboon wrote:

Since I don't usually do Kickstarter (and did not for these games in particular), me, I'm profit. I will (probably) buy these games when released. I will (probably) pay full price. I'm 100% profit (given the caveats above, etc. etc.). I would be surprised if I am the only one.

Yes. The big question, which won't be answered until these games start shipping, is how many others are like you. Based on the number of lurkers on most sites, I'd guess that the market that is interested but not contributing could be as large as ten times the number of backers...but it could also be much, much lower, depending on how well they were able to motivate the niche market--niche markets that we don't really know the size of yet, though Kickstarter helps there by demonstrating that there are at least X number of people willing to throw money at it.

FTL seemed to do alright, but the real test will be when the Double Fine Game and Banner Saga and Wasteland 2 ship, since they're the first wave of high-profile projects. We may see (or already be seeing) a bifurcation between A games, like FTL or At The Gates, where it's a solid, well executed idea but they have a very small team to keep things manageable, and AA games like Project Eternity, which don't quite have AAA budget but do have what's basically a '90s-era sized studio.

Yeah. I guess my main point is that I find the concept that everyone interested in one of these mega-Kickstarter games was in on the Kickstarter to be a little far-fetched. Even if half the people who would buy the game pitched in on the Kickstarter (which I think is exceedingly high) they still can sell the game at full price to approaching half their target audience for 100% gross profit (all kind of caveats here of course). Whether that returns enough net profit for this to be viable is, of course, to be seen.

It will certainly be interesting to watch how this all plays out over the next year or so.

tboon wrote:

Yeah. I guess my main point is that I find the concept that everyone interested in one of these mega-Kickstarter games was in on the Kickstarter to be a little far-fetched. Even if half the people who would buy the game pitched in on the Kickstarter (which I think is exceedingly high) they still can sell the game at full price to approaching half their target audience for 100% gross profit (all kind of caveats here of course). Whether that returns enough net profit for this to be viable is, of course, to be seen.

It will certainly be interesting to watch how this all plays out over the next year or so.

Biggest caveat is how far they go over budget, since that's not exactly an unknown occurrence in video game development. The number one thing that I think you need for these projects is a world-class producer, who is even more vital than on a AAA project. I fully agree that this next year is going to be interesting.

Vector wrote:

My concern with Wasteland 2, Project Infinity, and Torment: Tides of Numenera is that, to me, it seems a large part of the audience has already paid for the game by funding it. I hope their is more people that will buy these games after they've been released.

Based on what, though? How do you estimate the audience for these games? Torment may only have sold in the tens of thousands, but Baldur's Gate sold over two and a half million... I suspect that the market will sustain a lot more than just the early adopters. I hope so, anyway.