Ethiopian women in Israel 'given contraceptive without consent'

Israel's health ministry is investigating claims that Ethiopian immigrants have unwittingly had Depo-Provera jabs for years

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...

You stay classy, Israel.

"They call it 'eugenics' because we do it for you."

Israel might have been running a program to maintain some sort of pure Jewish society?

This is my shocked face:

Thing is, they are Jews. Fascinating story. So this is a case of racism trumping brotherhood of all Hebrew peoples. Inverse Sammy Davis Jr. effect?

Eh, Israel has been a police state since its inception. This does not shock me in the slightest.

Does Israel have a large Ethiopian population?

LobsterMobster wrote:

Does Israel have a large Ethiopian population?

Not anymore. (D'oh!)

LobsterMobster wrote:

Does Israel have a large Ethiopian population?

Sort of.

Disgusting.

I heard about it on the news a long time ago. As far as I know they filed a lawsuit against the people responsible. I read on a local article(Ynet google translated) that a woman that was in charge of supporting 57 Ethiopian families discovered they had too much baby formula left over and when she checked why she found that only 1 baby was born in 57 families.

I haven't been keeping track of this story but I read a little about the Ethiopian emigration to Israel. As far as I remember I've read that the Jews from Ethiopia were not treated too well and at some point the Ethiopians didn't allow them to bury their dead. What I've noticed is that in Israel the Ethiopian emigrants were not treated well they were sent to certain areas of the country . There are incidents of separating the Ethiopians children in some schools which pop up in the news from time to time .The public and government usually gets angry about it( I think a school that did this was closed down and the children were sent to other schools)

I think it would have been better if the Ethiopian emigrants were more spread out across the country rather than concentrated into their own neighborhood. Their integration into Israeli society would have been faster this way.

As far as I know the average number of children per woman in Israel is 2.98~ . Most people try to have 3 kids but it's true life here is not heaven and having many children can have some costs involved especially when they are babies. There are still families who have many children who get government support instead of work and they are doing ok.

Ethiopian emigrants is considered a discriminated subgroup in Israel along with Arabs, Haredi Jews and women. I've seen a few lectures of Yaron Zelicha (macro economy professor was chief accountant in government for 7 ~years) who researched the subject . He claims that some people don't work because there aren't enough jobs. He hints that discrimination "solves" the problem.

In general none has an incentive to limit child birth and none in Israel really has an incentive for it . Hospitals get close to 3000$ per baby born . It's true that the cost of living in Israel is high but It's probably possible to do just fine with two-three children. Recently the prices of homes have risen about 40+% so it's really hard to afford a home. Many blame the government and this causes everyone to have problems starting a family if they can't afford to buy an apartment or pay the rent. Young people start their adult life a little late after a 2/3 years of military service which pays close to nothing. The situation is still reversible because it's cheap and easy to get fertility treatments in Israel. While in most countries there is a problem of people not having enough children Israel is statistically doing just fine. I doubt there would be a long term effect to this fiasco. I've heard of one country that sterilize women without them knowing (I think Uzbekistan). Those women might have been brain washed. As I said I haven't been keeping track of this news story.

The recent hot topic in Israel is the fact that Netanyahu is having a very hard time to form a coalition after the election. Two political parties cooperated to forced Netanyahu to surrender to their terms especially because they want "change" and he didn't do much progress. Unfortunately these news stories don't last more than two weeks. There are some journalists that adopt topics and check up on them. They did that in "what's burning" in Galatz where they checked up on child investigators . In Israel journalists are very nosy and they will find out anything and they are not afraid of the consequences. There are so many leaks that Israel makes a large portion of the world news. Recently there was a story about an Australian "spy".

For change to happen the police/government has to get involved . Generally if a crime is published in the news the police always investigate. Getting the media involved is usually a good way to get things done in Israel.

I wish I could find this shocking, but when the US was practicing compulsory sterilization as recently as the 1970s, I kinda don't. It's good this came to light though.

complexmath wrote:

I wish I could find this shocking, but when the US was practicing compulsory sterilization as recently as the 1970s, I kinda don't. It's good this came to light though.

Didn't Australia do the same thing?

A lot of countries have. I just wanted to mention that not even the US is free of this, nor is it even something that happened centuries ago.

Nevin73 wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I wish I could find this shocking, but when the US was practicing compulsory sterilization as recently as the 1970s, I kinda don't. It's good this came to light though.

Didn't Australia do the same thing?

Australia did the far more unpleasant thing of either just stealing the children from their mothers or, shall we say, forcibly creating children of mixed race. In many cases, both.

Maq wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I wish I could find this shocking, but when the US was practicing compulsory sterilization as recently as the 1970s, I kinda don't. It's good this came to light though.

Didn't Australia do the same thing?

Australia did the far more unpleasant thing of either just stealing the children from their mothers or, shall we say, forcibly creating children of mixed race. In many cases, both.

Maq wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I wish I could find this shocking, but when the US was practicing compulsory sterilization as recently as the 1970s, I kinda don't. It's good this came to light though.

Didn't Australia do the same thing?

Australia did the far more unpleasant thing of either just stealing the children from their mothers or, shall we say, forcibly creating children of mixed race. In many cases, both.

We still do similar things.

I found the class action lawsuit papers on a local site. iI's a scanned PDF(Hebrew - it's linked in the article) which is stamped by the court "accepted January 31 2013" . They are suing a sum of 382.5~ million NIS ( around 100 million $) from 3 health providers. As far as I understood they are mainly angry about the method of birth control (injection with no alternatives) , targeting a certain population and the negligence of doctors. They also sue for social/mental damages due to the fact using contraceptives is not culturally acceptable in the culture of people who came from Ethiopia.

It also mention a statistic that the birth rate statistic for Ethiopian women was 4.6 births per woman and it dropped gradually until reaching 2.55 in 2010.

Is there any explanation for this other than the whole Herrenvolk nonsense warmed up for Jewish sensibilities?

Paleocon wrote:

Is there any explanation for this other than the whole Herrenvolk nonsense warmed up for Jewish sensibilities?

I think there was a type of segregation inside the groups of Ethiopians that were brought to Israel. The people who were particing Jews were brought to Israel first . There is a group that converted to Christianity (known as Falash Mura) had to wait to come to Israel In later date.

As far as I heard the Ethiopians children are required to go to religious schools(I'm not sure about 2nd generation). There is still no doubt that the people that came from Ethiopia are Jewish. Because the people who stopped practicing Judaism still had family relation with people who did practice Judaism there were incidences where families were torn apart.

I admit racism is a problem in Israel but it's generally frowned at. Since it's creation there was always a "racial conflict" where people who came from European background were considered to have better opportunities than people who came from Arab nations etc. There is a continuing process of integration which happens naturally. People slowly forget their previous heritage and language and take the "Israeli" identity.

I can give myself as an example. My mother's parents knew Polish, Russian and Yiddish, and my father's parents spoke Hungarian and Yiddish . I speak non of these languages .I'm familiar with Russian due to the fact It's commonly spoken. I still doubt that people who speak Russian would be able to pass on the Russian language culture to their children. My wife's mother speak Romanian and Russian but my wife only know Russian.

Jewish/ Israeli culture is king here kids think Judaism is the only religion and know that everyone speak Hebrew and it's a good idea to learn English. There is generally no will for people to return to their country of origin. Mixed marriage between people with different heritage are very common. The racism here is generally stereotype related rather than genuine hate. The fact that our country is constantly under attack by its neighbors is also a unifying factor (everyone is sick of that BS).

I just had a conversation with a buddy of mine (former Israeli paratrooper) who admitted to me that there is a good deal of hypocrisy on the topic. He said that if Israelis are honest about it, they have to admit that Ethiopean Jews are "more Jewish" than European ones. I think this has to do with observance, but I didn't really press his definition.

I asked him, though, whether or not he would have an issue with his daughter marrying an Ethiopean Jew and he hesitated a very long time before giving me the most diplomatic way of saying "Yes, because I am a racist".