Impire: Paradox's take on Dungeon Keeper

master0 wrote:
jam3 wrote:

*Snip*

Would this be the point where I saw I never really liked dungeon keeper 1 or 2? *Ducks* Also if you want doors go get evil genius, has more doors then you can shake a stick at. I put doors everywhere in that game.

Your probably a nice guy and everything and myself, well I try to be nice. But yeah you probably don't have alot of gaming taste buds if you didn't like Dk 1 and 2. What are u going to say next, Sacrifice sucks? Fallout 1 and 2 was lazy design? Homeworld had no soul? Torment was written by babies? Interstate 76 had no groove?

Evil genius was a masterpiece.

jam3 wrote:
master0 wrote:
jam3 wrote:

*Snip*

Would this be the point where I saw I never really liked dungeon keeper 1 or 2? *Ducks* Also if you want doors go get evil genius, has more doors then you can shake a stick at. I put doors everywhere in that game.

Your probably a nice guy and everything and myself, well I try to be nice. But yeah you probably don't have alot of gaming taste buds if you didn't like Dk 1 and 2. What are u going to say next, Sacrifice sucks? Fallout 1 and 2 was lazy design? Homeworld had no soul? Torment was written by babies? Interstate 76 had no groove?

Evil genius was a masterpiece.

I tried sacrifice and didn't really enjoy it and hated fallout 1 and 2 compared to Balder's Gate. Homeworld and Torment were masterpieces. Never played Interstate 76. That being said for a lot of these games I played them long after they were released, so no rose tinted glasses or what not. All joking aside they are not bad games but some didn't age well and I couldn't enjoy them as much.

master0 wrote:

I tried sacrifice and didn't really enjoy it and hated fallout 1 and 2

They are going to to revoke your gamers card. And if any of the high priests come in this thread I fear excommunication is not out of the question.

Next thing you know your going to say you didn't like Tie Fighter, or maybe that the original XCOM was shallow hahah lol thats impossible!! Er I guess its like 8% that thinks congress is doing a good job so ...

IMAGE(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23735329.jpg)

I wasn't a huge fan of the original DKs. They were ok, but no Syndicate/Magic Carpet in the Bullfrog pantheon.

Derail much? IMAGE(http://www.twitchtvfaces.com/images/FailFish.png)

jam3 wrote:
master0 wrote:

I tried sacrifice and didn't really enjoy it and hated fallout 1 and 2

They are going to to revoke your gamers card. And if any of the high priests come in this thread I fear excommunication is not out of the question.

Next thing you know your going to say you didn't like Tie Fighter, or maybe that the original XCOM was shallow hahah lol thats impossible!! Er I guess its like 8% that thinks congress is doing a good job so ...

Never played tie fight and loved xcom to death. Now shush, back on topic.

It's really strange but I've trying to find some reviews of this and I can't at all. Probable not a great sign from a sales respective. That being said I did find a decent amount of impressions and comments from play. The overall vein seems to be quite positive. Which is good since game of dwarves seems pretty bad. Still gonna wait for a few reviews from people I like

Oh and your minions need direction to eat, thats right they don't move around with little ai minds of their own they have to be told to do pretty much anything. How can a 15 year old game still be better?

I think the vast majority of the gaming industry seriously believes that players don't want to control units which have anything much more than cosmetic AI.

And they may be right. It could be that the vast majority of gamers aren't interested in trying to manage hordes of vaguely autonomous units. It seems like a lot of efforts at implementing AIs with more sophisticated decision making are met with some vocal player frustration from people who are upset that their little army men aren't staying put.

Another big crash for me. When playing, make sure to hit that save button until patch is released. Not exactly missing doors, but I agree it would be nice to have a bit more autonomy to the AI when they are not following Baal around.

Always-on DRM = instant no-sale. Shame.

polq37 wrote:
Oh and your minions need direction to eat, thats right they don't move around with little ai minds of their own they have to be told to do pretty much anything. How can a 15 year old game still be better?

I think the vast majority of the gaming industry seriously believes that players don't want to control units which have anything much more than cosmetic AI.

And they may be right. It could be that the vast majority of gamers aren't interested in trying to manage hordes of vaguely autonomous units. It seems like a lot of efforts at implementing AIs with more sophisticated decision making are met with some vocal player frustration from people who are upset that their little army men aren't staying put.

AI generally very tough. Not to mention it tends to have low return. Do it well and no one notices, do it badly and they make youtube videos. Although in some games you need better ai (civ 4 and 5 have about the same ai to me, both are quite simple). The only game I can really think of with crazy good ai would be galactic civilization and half life 2. I looked around this a bit more, and the I agree the hunger mechanic looks like a complete pain, squads are neat though.

I think what a lot of people, including me, are missing is the sense of a living, breathing dungeon once you get it going. If you leave the dungeons in Impire your little minions just do their pre canned animations if they are assigned to a room and your army just walk around the dungeons waiting for the intruders.

In DK you could sit back and watch your dungeons for quite awhile, watching the minions eat, go train, wander around discovering their dungeons, visiting the dungeon heart etc etc.

There was also a sense of discovery as you were tunneling out sections which is missing from Impire. All of a sudden you could find a pool of lava or a treasure chest. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in Impire.

What I really, really appreciate is the improved combat. In DK you picked up a bunch of monsters and tossed them down next to a hero. There was very little strategy involved.

Regarding the always-on DRM issue, I looked around and found this post in a thread at Steam by someone claming to be with Paradox.

Hey everyone,

Always online DRM isn't in the scope for this game; this is some kind of glitch that we'll have to take a look at.

Niklas Lundström
Paradox QA

In the slim chance that person is who he claims, maybe they'll fix this so-called "glitch" at some point. Until then, I've removed Impire from my wishlist.

MeatMan wrote:

Regarding the always-on DRM issue, I looked around and found this post in a thread at Steam by someone claming to be with Paradox.

Hey everyone,

Always online DRM isn't in the scope for this game; this is some kind of glitch that we'll have to take a look at.

Niklas Lundström
Paradox QA

In the slim chance that person is who he claims, maybe they'll fix this so-called "glitch" at some point. Until then, I've removed Impire from my wishlist.

Tinfoil hat time. Add always on drm for the first week. Then pull it calling it a glitch. It's gonna only hold off the hackers for a little while anyway but this helps limit the effect on the first week of sales followed by making you customer base happy. Removes tinfoil hat.

Finished the first two missions, and so far I'd say it's good but not amazing. Definitely scratches the Dungeon Keeper itch. Has a nice little mechanic where different units are specialised towards tank, healer or dps roles in squads and gain abilities accordingly, and that squads get different bonuses depending on which units are in them. My main gripe would be the interface - it's not bad as such, just a bit unintuitive. There were a number of things that initially seemed like major hassles in the game (like feeding units and finding ladders) that are actually quite easy once you know where the appropriate button is, or which interface screen to use, but it's often not especially well explained. Hit a couple of bugs, too. Still, I'm enjoying it overall.

Sonicator wrote:

...Has a nice little mechanic where different units are specialised towards tank, healer or dps roles in squads and gain abilities accordingly, and that squads get different bonuses depending on which units are in them...

Wait.. what? They get bonuses?

Sonicator wrote:

My main gripe would be the interface - it's not bad as such, just a bit unintuitive...

That was my main problem with it as well. It took me forever to figure out how resources worked because there was no tool tips on the icons, so I had to go raid the over world and then see which number at the top right increased when they brought the loot back.

James Allen from Out of Eight has posted a 35 minute playthrough if anyone's interested.

Yeah, I'm not that far into it, but I'd have to agree with Sonicator that I find it good not great, but still fun overall.

I'm also inclined to believe Paradox based on how the game is setup. It's sort of like a permanent multi-player, where you lock out the other players if you just want single player. I'm inclined to think it's about resources rather than intentions. For $20, I let a few things slide that a $60 game would get dinged on.

The more I watch of it the more it seems like just an rts really. Still seems like a fun rts but not really dungeon keeper or an evil genius ant farm sort of game.

master0 wrote:

The more I watch of it the more it seems like just an rts really. Still seems like a fun rts but not really dungeon keeper or an evil genius ant farm sort of game.

Yep, that's correct. It's a squad based rts with a dungeon keeper flavor to the base.

Fredrik_S wrote:
Sonicator wrote:

...Has a nice little mechanic where different units are specialised towards tank, healer or dps roles in squads and gain abilities accordingly, and that squads get different bonuses depending on which units are in them...

Wait.. what? They get bonuses?

Yeah, once they level up. There's little icons in grey next to the squad. I've seen things like ones with leveled up scouts getting more stuff from raids. There's also a bunch of bonuses (chance to stun etc) where I'm not sure whether they apply to the whole squad or just individual units.

Fredrik_S wrote:
master0 wrote:

The more I watch of it the more it seems like just an rts really. Still seems like a fun rts but not really dungeon keeper or an evil genius ant farm sort of game.

Yep, that's correct. It's a squad based rts with a dungeon keeper flavor to the base.

And just a dash of RPG.

kazooka wrote:

For $20, I let a few things slide that a $60 game would get dinged on.

Ditto, I'm definitely seeing this as "good for $20".

Sonicator wrote:

Yeah, once they level up. There's little icons in grey next to the squad. I've seen things like ones with leveled up scouts getting more stuff from raids. There's also a bunch of bonuses (chance to stun etc) where I'm not sure whether they apply to the whole squad or just individual units.

Oh neat. I'll make sure to keep an eye out of for that. I know you can upgrade their armor and such. Around that area in the squad menu?

kazooka wrote:

For $20, I let a few things slide that a $60 game would get dinged on.

Sonicator wrote:

Ditto, I'm definitely seeing this as "good for $20".

Absolutely. I'd say it's great for $20.

Fredrik_S wrote:
Sonicator wrote:

Yeah, once they level up. There's little icons in grey next to the squad. I've seen things like ones with leveled up scouts getting more stuff from raids. There's also a bunch of bonuses (chance to stun etc) where I'm not sure whether they apply to the whole squad or just individual units.

Oh neat. I'll make sure to keep an eye out of for that. I know you can upgrade their armor and such. Around that area in the squad menu?

Yep, above and to the left.

I ended up picking this up. I've played the first two missions and have enjoyed it so far. My biggest wish is for a way to pause the game and issue orders.

master0 wrote:

Tinfoil hat time. Add always on drm for the first week. Then pull it calling it a glitch. It's gonna only hold off the hackers for a little while anyway but this helps limit the effect on the first week of sales followed by making you customer base happy. Removes tinfoil hat.

I would honestly be 100% fine if every game was always on DRM for the first week or month and then they dropped it. Any word on whether the DRM for this game was actually dropped?

Edit:

Steam Game Info wrote:

Other Requirements:Broadband Internet connection
Additional:3-button mouse, keyboard, speakers, Internet connection for multiplayer

Does the fact that it says "Internet connection for multiplayer" imply that internet connection is no longer required for single-player? Or does is an internet connection under "Other Requirements" refer to always on internet access?