Manhunt in LA

Malor wrote:

Man, those LA cops have a yellow stripe about a mile wide running down their backs, shooting civilians like that.

Those are some seriously cowardly motherf*ckers.

I don't know that cowardice is their issue.

Reaper81 wrote:
Malor wrote:

Man, those LA cops have a yellow stripe about a mile wide running down their backs, shooting civilians like that.

Those are some seriously cowardly motherf*ckers.

I don't know that cowardice is their issue.

Little of column A, little of column B.

Bear wrote:

As horrible as this story is becoming, maybe this will finally lead to meaningful reform of the LAPD?

This is one of the people he shot:

IMAGE(http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/dorner-3.jpg?w=270&h=401)

I doubt you're going to see anyone taking his ravings seriously. The guy killed the daughter of his lawyer. Nobody is going to buy into some story about how he was driven to it by corruption in the LAPD. He is a loon and a sociopath.

Funkenpants wrote:
Bear wrote:

As horrible as this story is becoming, maybe this will finally lead to meaningful reform of the LAPD?

This is one of the people he shot:

IMAGE(http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/dorner-3.jpg?w=270&h=401)

I doubt you're going to see anyone taking his ravings seriously. The guy killed the daughter of his lawyer. Nobody is going to buy into some story about how he was driven to it by corruption in the LAPD. He is a loon and a sociopath.

Reform is very possible either way. Regardless of whether his allegations of corruption at the LAPD are taken seriously it's still demonstrably true that they employees and trained at least one sociopathic murderer.

At the very least we can expect scrutiny of their psych evaluation standards.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

Because if anyone else had shot at a vehicle just because it was a close match, they'd be in jail right now.

Photo of the truck. I'm inclined to agree.

IMAGE(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130207195516-04-california-manhunt-0207-horizontal-gallery.jpg)

I believe I relayed this conversation from my father in the police state thread, but it bears repeating here. My dad stated that due to the fact that the population is so much more violent today, the LAPD has been forced to employ rougher and more violent officers (the impression I got was this was mainly because they were employing the officers from the more violent general public so that was all that was available, but the undertone of "so we need tougher cops too!" was there).

That whole statement is just built on a house of cards, the most problematic being that the claim that the population is more violent today than it was 20 years ago is just statistically wrong! Nevertheless the institution is apparently purposefully recruiting these people, or at the very least has constructed a narrative to protect them when they are identified. The Blue Shield is alive and well in the LAPD.

You know, I was thinking about this today. Kind of random, but at least a little relevant.

You don't see really any humorous cop movies in LA. New York? Yeah. LA? Not so much. What does it say when your city's police department is only ever used as a backdrop for movies about gritty/corrupt cops? The main two cop movies for LA that come to mind for me are Training Day and Crash. Neither really paints a great picture there.

Yonder wrote:

Reform is very possible either way.

Reform is always possible through a variety of mechanisms. What I am suggesting is that this isn't like Rodney King or some ACLU lawsuit filed by victims of harassment. Nobody is going to suggest that the LAPD needs to change its policing practices because this guy started murdering people.

Also, I don't think Bear was talking about their mental screening procedures. I doubt the LAPD would oppose instituting new tests or screening procedures that can reliably identify people who might be murderers someday.

So I'm reading the CNN article to catch up on this story. What's blazoned across the top as breaking news? "Power company traces Super Bowl outage to electrical relay device." Sigh.

I imagine that the LAPD will be paying out some hefty civil lawsuits for the wrong shooting incidents, even if no criminal charges will be submitted.

Not to pee in your oatmeal, but Riggs and Murtaugh are LAPD cops.

We might need a spin off thread. But there are institutional problems inherent in the US system of policing, that has its roots in the early 19th Century. You can see this major forking between American police and British. I am not entirely convinced most police in the US have gotten beyond being embroiled in the spoil's system-so far as police being more tied to political merits than anything else.

Demosthenes wrote:

You know, I was thinking about this today. Kind of random, but at least a little relevant.

You don't see really any humorous cop movies in LA. New York? Yeah. LA? Not so much. What does it say when your city's police department is only ever used as a backdrop for movies about gritty/corrupt cops? The main two cop movies for LA that come to mind for me are Training Day and Crash. Neither really paints a great picture there.

(EDIT: Aww... too late.)
IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Lethal_weapon1.jpg)

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/Beverly_Hills_Cop.jpg)

Axel is from Detroit Lou. Former City Council Member Gill Hill plays the chief in them even.

I don't know that cowardice is their issue.

Cowardice is absolutely the issue, being so f*cking scared you can't get your targets straight.

KingGorilla wrote:

Axel is from Detroit Lou. Former City Council Member Gill Hill plays the chief in them even.

Yes. And it's a humorous cop movie set in L.A.

EDIT: Since we're being picky though, let's go with these instead.

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/68/Nakedguntrilogy.jpg/215px-Nakedguntrilogy.jpg)
IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Dragnet_movie.jpg)

(Thank God it's Friday.)

I suppose Rush Hour would work too. Heck, I'm sure there are plenty more.

It really bothers me that my knee jerk reaction to this is sympathy for Dorner. He may have been mistreated by the LAPD, he may be correct that LAPD is rotten and corrupt, but the guy is a psychopath who is murdering innocent people. He is not some Hollywood antihero. He does not deserve my sympathy.

And yet, my knee keeps jerking.

There may be a lot going on under the surface as well. Did he see action in Iraq or Afghanistan? Is he suffering from PTSD or suffer other related traumas? There may be sympathy that should be held for him. But not until we get the whole story (which we may never get). Regardless, he is targeting the families of those he has deemed guilty. That is an act without honor.

Nevin73 wrote:

There may be a lot going on under the surface as well. Did he see action in Iraq or Afghanistan? Is he suffering from PTSD or suffer other related traumas? There may be sympathy that should be held for him. But not until we get the whole story (which we may never get). Regardless, he is targeting the families of those he has deemed guilty. That is an act without honor.

I totally agree.

LouZiffer wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Axel is from Detroit Lou. Former City Council Member Gill Hill plays the chief in them even.

Yes. And it's a humorous cop movie set in L.A.

Technically speaking, Beverly Hills is incorporated, with its own mayor and police department. So, while it's technically in LA county, it's not LA.

Nevin73 wrote:

Is he suffering from PTSD or suffer other related traumas?

He does... in his "purported manifesto" (one news agency's term) he mentions being treated by the VA, then paying out of pocket for an additional kind of therapy. It's clear this is part of the story.

nel e nel wrote:
LouZiffer wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Axel is from Detroit Lou. Former City Council Member Gill Hill plays the chief in them even.

Yes. And it's a humorous cop movie set in L.A.

Technically speaking, Beverly Hills is incorporated, with its own mayor and police department. So, while it's technically in LA county, it's not LA.

I cannot tell if we are being playfully pedantic, or just dicks.

Nevin73 wrote:

There may be a lot going on under the surface as well.

Isn't that true of any murder spree? Loons with guns is a part of our culture.

Beverly Hills : LA :: Grosse Pointe : Detroit

Funkenpants wrote:
CannibalCrowley wrote:

Next up, how about we start rescinding legal and civil immunity just because one happens to be a government worker. Because if anyone else had shot at a vehicle just because it was a close match, they'd be in jail right now.

Would you favor the same rule applied to soldiers operating overseas? Should they be held to civilian standards on the use of force? Guys in uniform are always going to be held to different standards as the rest of the population because of their role in society.

Yes, but only if such standards ran all the way to the top (including the president). Of course, as a veteran, I believe that the military should be scaled way back and that overseas conflicts shouldn't become everyday occurrences.

As for your latter statement, the view that LEOs should be treated as an elite class is both against traditional American ideals and dangerous to everyone (due in part to the us vs them mentality that it causes).

KingGorilla wrote:
nel e nel wrote:
LouZiffer wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Axel is from Detroit Lou. Former City Council Member Gill Hill plays the chief in them even.

Yes. And it's a humorous cop movie set in L.A.

Technically speaking, Beverly Hills is incorporated, with its own mayor and police department. So, while it's technically in LA county, it's not LA.

I cannot tell if we are being playfully pedantic, or just dicks.

What's the use of an internet forum if we can't be dicks to each other? At least we're friendly dicks.

Podunk wrote:

It really bothers me that my knee jerk reaction to this is sympathy for Dorner. He may have been mistreated by the LAPD, he may be correct that LAPD is rotten and corrupt, but the guy is a psychopath who is murdering innocent people. He is not some Hollywood antihero. He does not deserve my sympathy.

And yet, my knee keeps jerking. :(

Hey man, I have been fighting that feeling all day. He is obviously a monster and a madman, but I feel like he kinda got screwed.

I hope they catch him soon.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

As for your latter statement, the view that LEOs should be treated as an elite class is both against traditional American ideals and dangerous to everyone (due in part to the us vs them mentality that it causes).

It's not against traditional American values. When was it any different?

SallyNasty wrote:
Podunk wrote:

It really bothers me that my knee jerk reaction to this is sympathy for Dorner. He may have been mistreated by the LAPD, he may be correct that LAPD is rotten and corrupt, but the guy is a psychopath who is murdering innocent people. He is not some Hollywood antihero. He does not deserve my sympathy.

And yet, my knee keeps jerking. :(

Hey man, I have been fighting that feeling all day. He is obviously a monster and a madman, but I feel like he kinda got screwed.

I hope they catch him soon.

I'm kind of stuck wondering, what's gonna happen to those cops who were shooting at innocents? Doesn't exactly scream police material to me, but what's going to happen with the firing procedures after this?

Probably nothing, seems like that's why homeskillet is on this rampage. Recursive problem?

This is pretty much one of those episodes of Burn Notice where Michael has to help the bad guy.

Demosthenes wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
Podunk wrote:

It really bothers me that my knee jerk reaction to this is sympathy for Dorner. He may have been mistreated by the LAPD, he may be correct that LAPD is rotten and corrupt, but the guy is a psychopath who is murdering innocent people. He is not some Hollywood antihero. He does not deserve my sympathy.

And yet, my knee keeps jerking. :(

Hey man, I have been fighting that feeling all day. He is obviously a monster and a madman, but I feel like he kinda got screwed.

I hope they catch him soon.

I'm kind of stuck wondering, what's gonna happen to those cops who were shooting at innocents? Doesn't exactly scream police material to me, but what's going to happen with the firing procedures after this?

That all would seem to be the bigger incentive for reform than the killer. One person going rogue is not indicative of a failed system; the rest of the LAPD going berserk in response is.