The coming war with....North Korea?

Aetius wrote:

Of course, he is a useful patsy for the expansion of the national security state. And that, of course, is the real reason the United States North Koreans will never seek a peaceful solution: having enemies is useful, especially when they are a) belligerent and b) entirely unable to make good on their threats.

Yeah, wacko neighbors drive the war industry. I recently wondered why are western nations still invest billions in their military while their sovereignty haven't been threatened for a very long time.

Israel , South Korea and Taiwan are a few countries that have a real threat of being conquered. I think The US is one of the strong pillar that prevents those nations from being overrun . Still if you look at the three nations they have been investing heavily in R&D and have an impressive standing military to deter invasion. According to globalfirepower.com the ranks are Israel is 13th,South Korea is 8th and Taiwan is 18th in military strength.

North Korea's military is ranked 28th so this means they are not likely to win a conventional war against 8th ranked South Korea. Waging nuclear war against a close neighbor has undesirable side effects and launching a nuclear attack against the USA would be suicide . The USA is not only the top ranking conventional military force it also has a nuclear arsenal that can destroy the planet several times. The USA also has access to missile defense systems either domestic or foreign (heavily invested in all Israels missile defense system). The North Koreans can still do very limited amount of damage with their nukes because the USA is a huge nation and it would take quiet a large arsenal to defeat it.

I generally think nothing is going to happen in Korea unless the South Koreans go crazy. The North Koreans just bark and provoke the South Koreans from time to time. For a war you need two sides and without an escalation from SK nothing will happen.

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

OG_slinger wrote:

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

That video is fantastic.

Redwing wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

That video is fantastic. :D

Is it wrong that I want a remix of that video set to Gangham Style?

Mixolyde wrote:
Redwing wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

That video is fantastic. :D

Is it wrong that I want a remix of that video set to Gangham Style?

That meme is old.

We have moved on.

KingGorilla wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
Redwing wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

That video is fantastic. :D

Is it wrong that I want a remix of that video set to Gangham Style?

That meme is old.

We have moved on.

Wait... do people really think this is REAL there? I mean, the government is really their only source for international relations, don't they? What benefit is there for a regime that wants to hold their people under their thumbs by making them think they have won the war and the threat is gone?

Didn't GW Bush do that on an Aircraft Carrier?

KingGorilla wrote:

Didn't GW Bush do that on an Aircraft Carrier?

I suppose, but for a totalitarian regime, it seems like a bonehead move. GW could be seen as trying to lift morale among the electorate for himself and his party. NK seems to be operating on lets create a fantasy land where we rule the world... by the way, you still can't leave the country even though we're awesome and have totally taken over South Korea and parts of the US.

Demosthenes wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Didn't GW Bush do that on an Aircraft Carrier?

I suppose, but for a totalitarian regime, it seems like a bonehead move. GW could be seen as trying to lift morale among the electorate for himself and his party. NK seems to be operating on lets create a fantasy land where we rule the world... by the way, you still can't leave the country even though we're awesome and have totally taken over South Korea and parts of the US.

Each person is free to read a book, see a film, look at a painting and create their own meaning and morals. Some people in North Korea read or saw 1984 and came to a very different conclusion than most people do when reading Orwell.

Demosthenes wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Didn't GW Bush do that on an Aircraft Carrier?

I suppose, but for a totalitarian regime, it seems like a bonehead move. GW could be seen as trying to lift morale among the electorate for himself and his party. NK seems to be operating on lets create a fantasy land where we rule the world... by the way, you still can't leave the country even though we're awesome and have totally taken over South Korea and parts of the US.

The book Nothing to Envy, complied from interviews with defectors, really illustrates what the NK propaganda machine has done to its people. A highly recommended read.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Didn't GW Bush do that on an Aircraft Carrier?

I suppose, but for a totalitarian regime, it seems like a bonehead move. GW could be seen as trying to lift morale among the electorate for himself and his party. NK seems to be operating on lets create a fantasy land where we rule the world... by the way, you still can't leave the country even though we're awesome and have totally taken over South Korea and parts of the US.

The book Nothing to Envy, complied from interviews with defectors, really illustrates what the NK propaganda machine has done to its people. A highly recommended read.

I need to read that book. I own it and it's just been sitting on my Kindle.

Earlier this month the Army war gamed the invasion North Korea after the regime of Kim Jong-un collapsed. Technically they simulated the invasion of North Brownland a "nuclear-armed, xenophobic, criminal family regime that had lorded over a closed society and inconveniently lost control over its nukes as it fell."

If you read between the lines of bureaucratic language of the generals who participated, things didn't exactly go so well and it's questionable how much the military has learned over the past decade.

The generals found that because our military has gotten used to using well-established staging zones (i.e., Kuwait) before starting hostilities, our forces were extremely unprepared for "forcible-entry operations from the air and sea" as well as moving large number of troops once the invasion started. Additionally, our military has had little experience over the past decade setting up new command and control networks, instead building off the ones established for Iraq and Afghanistan.

The simulation found that it would take nearly two months to get two divisions of soldiers into North Korea, but that more than 90,000 troops that would be required just to secure all the nuclear facilities. Given what we know from the chaos that followed from the collapse of the Iraqi regime, that is simply way too much time to get boots on the ground (and, very likely, far too few boots).

The only ray of hope, I suppose, is that some of the participating generals acknowledged that it wouldn't just be a shooting war and that humanitarian efforts would have to happen alongside military operations. While the generals talked about dropping food outside areas they needed to secure to draw away civilians, I have to wonder if they really thought about what would happen when troops secured one of the many North Korean prison camps.

The closest thing we have to draw from is liberating concentration camps of WWII. But there we had massive supply lines and plenty of manpower to draw from, not to mention plenty of troops that could communicate with the prisoners who we know are going to be just as mentally and physically f*cked up.

All of this reminded me of a short story, A Militant Peace, published by Clarkesworld back in 2011. It's a semi-near future story about how the UN--backed by an overwhelming superiority of technology, resources, and advertising sponsors--invades North Korea. But instead of going in with guns blazing, they air drop in the middle of the night and build a series of instant cities that offer civilians food and safety and that are protected by missile/arty shields and UN troops in powered armor.

While I know the US has a "America must be the leader" complex, when it comes to an armed conflict with North Korea I just feel like both Russia and China would have to take the lead on that with the US supporting them if it was going to work.

Actually, I think Russia's been out of the Korean picture for several decades now, as Stalinism died off and they left North Korea to rot on the branch. It's China all the way, from that perspective.

One thing I saw on my recent travels is that North Korea is good friends with Laos. My apartment in Vientiane was on the main road between the airport and the Presidential palace. I saw quite a few diplomatic motorcades with the NK flag on them and there were quite a lot of old soviet era planes with NK markings parked on the tarmac at Wattay International.

I suspect this is because NK is one of the few countries the Lao people think they are doing better than. "We might be poor, but least our people are eating rice and not grass." So the North Korean officials get parades and dinners, while the countries that actually pay for Laos to have roads and other infrastructure (Aus, US, Japan, SOUTH Korea, New Zealand etc.) get nothing other than occasional police harassment.

China gets special treatment as they back a dump truck full of money up to the palace a couple of times a year but still get treated well.

North Korean declaration of war.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_...

Only Al Jazeera has mentioned it so far.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

North Korean declaration of war.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_...

Only Al Jazeera has mentioned it so far.

I saw it several times earlier today, but the articles pretty much all implied that no one was really taking the declaration that seriously.

Maybe it's a calculated move on NK's part... carefully foster a cartoonish image in foreign media so that when you finally strike no one thinks to mobilize until its too late.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

North Korean declaration of war.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_...

Only Al Jazeera has mentioned it so far.

I love The Onion. Oh, wait...

Well of course the state of war between North and South never ended in the first place.

It's been all over the news, not just Al Jazeera. Daily Beast mentioned it, for example.

North Korea Moves Missle with Considerable Range to Coast

South Korea's defence minister has confirmed that Pyongyang has moved a missile with "considerable range" to its east coast, but said there were no signs that North Korea was preparing for a full-scale conflict despite the continuing standoff.

The confirmation from Kim Kwan-jin came hours after North Korea's military announced it had been authorised to attack the US using "smaller, lighter and diversified" nuclear weapons.

Kim said he did not know why the North had moved the missile, but suggested it "could be for testing or drills".

He dismissed Japanese media speculation that the missile could be a KN-08, which is believed to be a long-range missile that - if operable - could hit the US.

Kim told a parliamentary committee meeting that although the missile had considerable range, it was not sufficient to hit the US mainland.

His description could suggest a missile known as the Musudan, which has a range of 3,000km (1,800 miles). That would make Japan and South Korea potential targets along with US bases in both countries.

While I'm sure this missle will turn out to be photoshopped, a scale model or a 2D cardboard cutout...they are REALLY pushing their luck this time aren't they?

They asked for Jordan, they got Rodman. I'd be pissed off too.

Chairman_Mao, can't you do anything?

Chairman_Mao wrote:

They asked for Jordan, they got Rodman. I'd be pissed off too.

While I'm sure this missle will turn out to be photoshopped, a scale model or a 2D cardboard cutout...they are REALLY pushing their luck this time aren't they?

I've always though North Korea was just a ridiculous country with bad leadership and citizens who can't escape the idiocy of those above them.

All of this is reinforcing those thoughts... but to a whole new level.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Chairman_Mao, can't you do anything?

I am

Though I should probably start thinking about the east coast...

Mixolyde wrote:
Redwing wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Apparently the war was fought over the weekend and the North Koreans won handily, overrunning South Korea and taking 150,000 Americans hostage.

In other news we missed last week, Kim Jong-un finally got his copy of Final Cut Pro as well as discovered Jamendo.com.

That video is fantastic. :D

Is it wrong that I want a remix of that video set to Gangham Style?

Actually, the soundtrack was making me think they need vocals: "D-P-R-K, f*ck yeah!"

Why is this a topic?

N. Korea is China's lap dog. China says, "sit, beg, or roll over" and N. Korea obliges.

China will not risk military escalation in N. Korea. As with a dog that bites someone, people go after the owner.

It's sad, deplorable and disgusting what their asshole "leader" is doing to his own people.

But does the world have anything to fear from him militarily?

LOL. Not at all.

EvilShawnAndrich wrote:

But does the world have anything to fear from him militarily?

LOL. Not at all.

The world has absolutely nothing to fear from NK. However, Japan and especially SK do have something to fear. Since those are two of the US's closest allies (one of them even had a Constitution purpose-written to make it rely on the US for defense!) that is why the US has to be involved, not because it directly is threatened.

Yonder wrote:
EvilShawnAndrich wrote:

But does the world have anything to fear from him militarily?

LOL. Not at all.

The world has absolutely nothing to fear from NK. However, Japan and especially SK do have something to fear. Since those are two of the US's closest allies (one of them even had a Constitution purpose-written to make it rely on the US for defense!) that is why the US has to be involved, not because it directly is threatened.

Really disappointing. If Japan was in charge of their own defense, I could totally see them being a robot army of awesomeness.