NFL 2012 Divisional Week Thread

Stele wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

I'm a total lurker in the sports section but figured that the same rules of Goodjers being cool to other Goodjers still apply here.

They do. Saying something bad about the Seahawks is not a personal attack on you.

I did make a crack about it being better that the Seahawks lost a close one after the comeback and it being more heartbreaking for their fans that way. Guess that was close to the line. But as a division rival fan I'm allowed to hate everything about the team right?

In the future I'll try to keep my Seattle comments focused on what an asshole Pete Carroll is, how dirty the defense plays, what jerks they are for running up the score by faking punts up 40, how their stadium likes to cheat pumping in fan noise, and how great it is for the 49ers to beat them and win the division every year. ;)

I dunno Stele, I've found you the past couple weeks to be really insufferable and just a pain to read. I love sports ribbing but everything you have said so far has been so incredibly flat that you don't even notice that NOBODY finds them funny. Put some effort out or make a P&C thread where you can make attacks all day, I'm sorry it is just really unpleasant when someone says negative unfunny things ad-nauseum.

Now back to the games: That was the most Pete Carroll move in the world of Pete Carroll moves to argue with the ref that he hadn't truly meant to take a time out when he called a time out. I can't stand the icing the kicker gameplan. The second that kicker gets off a practice kick, it became advantageous for the kicker.

Texans fans, what is the next step for you guys? It has to be canning Matt Schaub, right? I say in April spend the whole draft taking nothing but QBs and WRs.

I see Elliotx has now met Stele.

Whatever you do, jdzappa, stay out of the NCAA football thread. This is a tickle fight by comparison.

On subject, it's a blah day of no answers for Texans fans. We're married to Schaub, don't have much salary cap room, and we already tried to beef up the offense by drafting a zillion receivers last year. What's the next move?

Edit: Wow, Tannhausered by Elliotx, but I had already answered his questions without knowing he was going to ask them!

What a crazy weekend of games... Can't really say I'm too happy with the results as most went against my personal preferences or my own pickems.

My thoughts peppered with my Cal bias:

1) Raheem Moore's horrific defensive play was just as bad as Kyle Williams last year or poor Jeremy Ross this year. A PI, or just letting the guy catch the ball and getting him down would probably have been enough for the broncos to win. The guys on TV just kept babbling about "how did he let him get behind him" etc. etc, but regardless if he got past him, if he didn't make his horrible attempt at defending the ball, he at least pushes Jones OOB and BLT was out of timeouts.

2) The SF game just brought back too many bad memories of disappointment of being a Cal fan. Aaron Rodgers throwing picks, Jeremy Ross muffing punts... Most painful though was watching Kapernick go crazy. Watching west coast football we see read-option QB's all the time... Oregon, UCLA under Neuweasel, and of course Nevada. Cal played in Reno in 2010 and Kapernick single handedly crushed us, running for 150 and 3 TDs, throwing for 180 and 2TDs. This is the Nevada team that "saved" the BCS by beating an undefeated Boise State. I really wanted to yell at the TV every time I watched a GB linebacker crash on the RB and Kapernick just ran out the back side on the read-option. Capers ought to be fired for not being able to make the adjustment. The whole thing just reminded me of another Cal loss.

3) SEA-ATL was every Cal fans dream... Cal twitterers were all over this game gushing with pride. SEA has 4 (Lynch, Morrah, Mebane, and emergency-signee Longwell) and ATL has 2 (the Great Tony G and Thomas DeCoud) former Cal players. I'll have to admit I was rooting for the seahawks, if only because they had more Cal players, but I'm really happy for Tony Gonzalez. Dating myself, I watched that guy play football and basketball when I was at school. He really was a man among boys out there.

4) HOU-NE. Love the Shane Vereen coming out party. Again, as a Cal fan nothing he did on the field suprised me. Its too bad he hasn't been able to shake the injury bug in his first 2 seasons. Dude was an all around back.. in our upset victory against a stanfurd team with Andrew Luck and Toby Gearhart in 2009 he had 42 carries 193 yards and 3 TDs. No reason to think he can't be a feature back in the NFL if he can stay healthy. Would loved to have seen some Justin Forsett on HOU.

Fed: setting the standard for "Don't mess with Texas!" since 2005.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Whatever you do, jdzappa, stay out of the NCAA football thread. This is a tickle fight by comparison.

Lol, I was just about to invite him over to our house of civility in NCAA land.

The next move for the Packers is to figure out if Dom Capers is the right defensive coach maybe.

Do you just chalk it off as Kapernick being unstoppable when hes on his game or that the defensive play calling was very suspect. Player wise I think the Packers are fine on D so maybe even the outright scheme had no chance...

Teaxans and Schuab? stuck in the QB limbo that amazing ones don't grow on trees and they have a 'serviceable one'. Saw lots of questioning the D couldn't even get into their sets though so a landslide of blame on Schaub isn't exactly fair.

jowner wrote:

Do you just chalk it off as Kapernick being unstoppable when hes on his game or that the defensive play calling was very suspect. Player wise I think the Packers are fine on D so maybe even the outright scheme had no chance...

From what I've seen of read option QBs, it just comes down to the OLB's staying home and not falling for the ball fake. You have to trust the interior linemen to stop the run up the middle. Its generally easier to defend against if you run a 3-4 as you have faster LB's to contain the outside, but they must be disciplined. In college, you can also get away with running a cover-0 and putting a safety or a fast LB as a dedicated QB spy. You can't do that all the time in the NFL, but it wouldn't hurt to try it a few times and gamble when you think the read-option is on. From what I saw, it didn't look like the packers ever used a LB or DB as a spy.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I see Elliotx has now met Stele.

Hey you've started with me just as much as I've started with you in the NCAA Football thread. :p

We get along perfectly well in the Dark Souls thread and pretty much anywhere else we have crossed paths. I was even cheering for your Aggies in basketball this weekend (good job on the win) and your Texans (sorry about the loss).

One weird thing is that the D isn't getting set fast enough, and the O clearly can't run a hurry-up offense quickly enough. With different players and coaches for O&D, I think it's weird that the Texans seem to have an institutional lack of urgency.

Edit: Stele will rue the day he tried to establish common ground when next season starts and I begin to go Manti Teo on Teddy Bridgewater, likely Heisman rival in Johnny Football's repeat campaign.

According to the Barnwell article on Grantland this morning, Erik Walden was used as a spy on Kaepernick in the first half.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Edit: Stele will rue the day he tried to establish common ground when next season starts and I begin to go Manti Teo on Teddy Bridgewater, likely Heisman rival in Johnny Football's repeat campaign. :lol:

It's going to be a fun year. But we probably can't talk about them in this NFL thread unless we're talking about draft positions.

As much as everybody wants to get on Carroll for attempting to "ice" the kicker, his biggest mistake was going for it on a 4th and 1 on the 2 yard(?) line in the 2nd quarter. Because he didn't kick the FG there was a 10 point swing in Atlanta's favor.

Even if the game had played out exactly the same way from that point forward (ATL scoring on it's next possession, etc.), the Falcons would have needed a TD on that last drive to win.

Too often people confuse being clever with being smart. A smart coach always takes the points.

sr_malo wrote:

As much as everybody wants to get on Carroll for attempting to "ice" the kicker, his biggest mistake was going for it on a 4th and 1 on the 2 yard(?) line in the 2nd quarter. Because he didn't kick the FG there was a 10 point swing in Atlanta's favor.

Even if the game had played out exactly the same way from that point forward (ATL scoring on it's next possession, etc.), the Falcons would have needed a TD on that last drive to win.

Too often people confuse being clever with being smart. A smart coach always takes the points.

I don't disagree with Carroll going for it on 4th &1 when he did. Seattle was getting badly outplayed and really needed some momentum going their way. Statistically he had a good shot of making it and his team needed the boost.

I do feel he make a huge mistake a the end of the half by mismanaging the clock and not coming away with points. That's where he should of taken the points.

sr_malo wrote:

As much as everybody wants to get on Carroll for attempting to "ice" the kicker, his biggest mistake was going for it on a 4th and 1 on the 2 yard(?) line in the 2nd quarter. Because he didn't kick the FG there was a 10 point swing in Atlanta's favor.

Even if the game had played out exactly the same way from that point forward (ATL scoring on it's next possession, etc.), the Falcons would have needed a TD on that last drive to win.

Too often people confuse being clever with being smart. A smart coach always takes the points.

See, I was fine with them going for it there (from the 11, btw). Seattle was very good in short-yardage situations this season. Here's a note from footballoutsiders:

Although for the year, Seattle in short yardage: 70 percent conversion (4th) and Atlanta defense: 65 percent (21st). So it's not like Seattle was running into a wall.

The problem was the play calls. If you know you're going to go for it on 4th and 1, why not do something a bit more adventurous on 3rd and 1? And in either case, put the ball in the hands of one of your two best offensive players - either Wilson or Lynch on 4th.

Regardless of all of that - it was the defense that blew it. And this wasn't the first time. They blew late 4th quarter leads in Detroit and Miami, and had nearly the same scenario play out in Chicago. Luckily they won that one in OT. Seattle could probably use a big-play receiver, but I'd rather they focus on fixing the defense. They need to be able to get some pressure on opposing QBs, and they need to do a better job when playing zone.

billt721 wrote:
sr_malo wrote:

As much as everybody wants to get on Carroll for attempting to "ice" the kicker, his biggest mistake was going for it on a 4th and 1 on the 2 yard(?) line in the 2nd quarter. Because he didn't kick the FG there was a 10 point swing in Atlanta's favor.

Even if the game had played out exactly the same way from that point forward (ATL scoring on it's next possession, etc.), the Falcons would have needed a TD on that last drive to win.

Too often people confuse being clever with being smart. A smart coach always takes the points.

See, I was fine with them going for it there (from the 11, btw). Seattle was very good in short-yardage situations this season. Here's a note from footballoutsiders:

Although for the year, Seattle in short yardage: 70 percent conversion (4th) and Atlanta defense: 65 percent (21st). So it's not like Seattle was running into a wall.

The problem was the play calls. If you know you're going to go for it on 4th and 1, why not do something a bit more adventurous on 3rd and 1? And in either case, put the ball in the hands of one of your two best offensive players - either Wilson or Lynch on 4th.

Regardless of all of that - it was the defense that blew it. And this wasn't the first time. They blew late 4th quarter leads in Detroit and Miami, and had nearly the same scenario play out in Chicago. Luckily they won that one in OT. Seattle could probably use a big-play receiver, but I'd rather they focus on fixing the defense. They need to be able to get some pressure on opposing QBs, and they need to do a better job when playing zone.

Well, I knew it was inside the 10.

IIRC, Lynch wasn't even on the field for the last two downs. That's just bad roster management.

The Seahawks D is pretty stout, a good pass rusher would be a nice addition, but their #1 pickup in the off-season should be a WR or big play TE. Sydney Rice, Golden Tate, and Zach Miller are never going to get them a championship.

sr_malo wrote:

As much as everybody wants to get on Carroll for attempting to "ice" the kicker, his biggest mistake was going for it on a 4th and 1 on the 2 yard(?) line in the 2nd quarter. Because he didn't kick the FG there was a 10 point swing in Atlanta's favor.

Even if the game had played out exactly the same way from that point forward (ATL scoring on it's next possession, etc.), the Falcons would have needed a TD on that last drive to win.

Too often people confuse being clever with being smart. A smart coach always takes the points.

I think saying "always" is a mistake. I think, given the relative earliness of the attempt and the situation (13-0 score), kicking the ball would have been the right call.

But it was far from a bad call. Being aggressive is not a mistake just because it fails. Your line and your 222 pound short-yardage back (Turbin) and/or your 240 pound fullback (Robinson) need to be able to get one yard when given two attempts. That is a failure of execution, pure and simple, not a failure of coaching or playcalling.

Just sitting here thinking about how big a fail it was for the Texans not to get a TD on the opening drive after an amazing Manning kick return. Bleh.

sr_malo wrote:
billt721 wrote:

See, I was fine with them going for it there (from the 11, btw).

Well, I knew it was inside the 10. :)

That's a neat trick, Georgia Dome 11-yard-line.

Stele wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

I'm a total lurker in the sports section but figured that the same rules of Goodjers being cool to other Goodjers still apply here.

They do. Saying something bad about the Seahawks is not a personal attack on you.

I did make a crack about it being better that the Seahawks lost a close one after the comeback and it being more heartbreaking for their fans that way. Guess that was close to the line. But as a division rival fan I'm allowed to hate everything about the team right?

In the future I'll try to keep my Seattle comments focused on what an asshole Pete Carroll is, how dirty the defense plays, what jerks they are for running up the score by faking punts up 40, how their stadium likes to cheat pumping in fan noise, and how great it is for the 49ers to beat them and win the division every year. ;)

Ok, let me address a few things here. I'll admit up front that Carroll's defense of his time out is lame. As others have pointed out in the past, running up scores in pro games is nothing to be ashamed about. And having been to the C-LINK several times, I can assure you that the noise isn't "pumped in." Oh, and in the past 10 years the Seahawks have won the division 5 times to your two.

If you win the Superbowl, I'll be happy to eat crow. But you have two pretty hard matchups against you and if either's a blowout loss just know what goes around comes around.

This is freaking sports. It's understood that every negative thing we think of a rival's fans is irrational and irrelevant to the real world. Also, every positive thing we think about fans of our favorite teams is the same.

It's all about pretending that if the guys wearing the colors we like beat the guys wearing the colors that we don't like, it has some sort of benefit to us. It's fun, but we all know it's make-believe, right?

Except for Raider fans. Those guys are scary.

Wow, getting lectured on taking things personal from Jayhawker, the guy who gets livid every time I make a Democrat or welfare mom joke over in PC. But to your point, there was lots of ugly taunting on Hawks boards yesterday from Falcons and 49er fans that included lots of "limp wristed Seattle f@##t comments." So overall I like that GWJ doesn't stoop to that cesspool. If it had gone the other way and the Falcons were beat in the last minute, I wouldn't get on here and be a total douche about it.

jdzappa: It's cool man. The awesome folks (me and legion) pop a chubby about SEA's bump and run defense.

jowner wrote:

The next move for the Packers is to figure out if Dom Capers is the right defensive coach maybe.

I would say to put that line of thinking to rest. You're not going to find many defensive coaches better than Capers.

Do you just chalk it off as Kapernick being unstoppable when hes on his game or that the defensive play calling was very suspect. Player wise I think the Packers are fine on D so maybe even the outright scheme had no chance...

The players failed, not the plays.

Clay Matthews was dominated by Joe Staley. There was not much double teaming. Staley manhandled Matthews 1-on-1. Matthews only managed to be a factor on a couple of plays, one in which he converted into a sack, way back in the 1st quarter. For the other 31 snaps he played against the pass, he was walled off.

The defensive line was completely outmatched by the 49ers offensive line. The 49er line imposed their will. Raji and Wilson were pushed all over the field.

Tramon Williams couldn't hang with Michael Crabtree. Crabtree won the 1-on-1 battle all night.

Kaepernick played a chess game with Erik Walden with the read options. They targeted Walden's side and the handoff or keeps were based in large part on the steps he took after the snap. The defensive line was unable to cause any disruption, leaving Walden on an island against Gore/Kaepernick. Gore and Kaepernick won.

There are very few matchups you could point to where you can say the Packer player won the battle. They couldn't get off blocks, they struggled to match up in coverage. Scheme put them where they needed to be, for the most part, but they couldn't win the battle when they got there.

Capers shifted the scheme to try and make things happen, but his players failed him.

Kaepernick played brilliantly, but it would have been a different game if the Packer front 7 could have done something, anything, against the 49ers line.

boogle wrote:

jdzappa: It's cool man. The awesome folks (me and legion) pop a chubby about SEA's bump and run defense.

On the long list of things that I "pop a chubby" for, I'm not sure bump and run makes the list.

Unless it's in the Lingerie Football League.

I do appreciate physical downfield pass coverage. When fans of today are screaming for interference calls, that's the sound of the passing game being played the way it should be.

I want to go to the league meetings wearing a T-shirt that reads "DOWNFIELD CONTACT IS NOT A CRIME". My dearest hope is that the push to make the game safer and reduce head trauma will bring this style of play back. Receivers who are being jostled and mugged by Richard Sherman are receivers who are not taking Austin Collie knockout shots by defenders trying to time kill shots to dislodge the ball instead of playing the receiver down the field.

jdzappa wrote:

But to your point, there was lots of ugly taunting on Hawks boards yesterday from Falcons and 49er fans that included lots of "limp wristed Seattle f@##t comments." So overall I like that GWJ doesn't stoop to that cesspool.

No doubt. I saw a lot of the same comments from Seattle fans on the 49ers board where I hang out. They crash our game thread, trolling with all kinds of stuff. Especially in the first few min when Colin threw the pick-6.

I know you're not one of those jerks, and I don't think anyone around here is. My hate for a division rival has bled through in a lot of my posts lately. I hope I haven't crossed a line.

It's very hard to know where that line is when you grow up in the Louisville-Kentucky basketball rivalry. There's nothing like it in any other sport. It goes way beyond basketball. It's red vs blue, city vs rural, black vs white, and a whole lot of other things tied in, and it was pretty ugly growing up in the middle of that mess. Still is, in a lot of places, even in this century. My perception of right vs wrong in sports fandom is probably pretty skewed thanks to those Wildcat nuts. You wouldn't believe some of the sh*t I heard growing up. Could probably have pages and pages of P&C discussion about it.

Anyway, I may take joy in your team losing, but I shouldn't take joy in your suffering for that loss. Sorry.

jowner wrote:

The next move for the Packers is to figure out if Dom Capers is the right defensive coach maybe.

I'm going to disagree with this strongly as well. If you want to critique a coach, looking at specific plays on the field in "what if" scenarios in a single game is probably not the way to go.
I think Capers has done masterwork this season. He took the 31st ranked defense of the 2011 season, added a bunch of rookies, dealt with significant injury at key positions in his defense, and kept them near the top ten all this season. In the Packers' 3-4 scheme, fast talented linebackers are very important. The fact that the defense played as well as they did after losing Nick Perry, DJ Smith, and Desmond Bishop over the course of the season is impressive, and I think Capers deserves credit for making sure the replacements were well prepared. In fact, Vic Ketchman made that very point in today's "Ask Vic"

jdzappa wrote:

Wow, getting lectured on taking things personal from Jayhawker, the guy who gets livid every time I make a Democrat or welfare mom joke over in PC.

Not knowing the difference between politics and sports is your problem. You will go far dragging P&C into the sports threads.

Jayhawker wrote:

This is freaking sports. It's understood that every negative thing we think of a rival's fans is irrational and irrelevant to the real world. Also, every positive thing we think about fans of our favorite teams is the same.

It's all about pretending that if the guys wearing the colors we like beat the guys wearing the colors that we don't like, it has some sort of benefit to us. It's fun, but we all know it's make-believe, right?

Except for Raider fans. Those guys are scary.

May whatever deity you pray to help you if you're a Broncos fan sitting in the Black Hole when the Broncos are blowing out the Raiders. You are most probably going to die. Our rivalry with KC and SD may get heated occasionally, but Broncos and Raiders fans hate each other with a special kind of passion.

Xeknos wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

This is freaking sports. It's understood that every negative thing we think of a rival's fans is irrational and irrelevant to the real world. Also, every positive thing we think about fans of our favorite teams is the same.

It's all about pretending that if the guys wearing the colors we like beat the guys wearing the colors that we don't like, it has some sort of benefit to us. It's fun, but we all know it's make-believe, right?

Except for Raider fans. Those guys are scary.

May whatever deity you pray to help you if you're a Broncos fan sitting in the Black Hole when the Broncos are blowing out the Raiders. You are most probably going to die. Our rivalry with KC and SD may get heated occasionally, but Broncos and Raiders fans hate each other with a special kind of passion.

I was not in the Black Hole, but I was in Oakland for the Monday Night game where Elvis Grbac hit Andre Rison for a game winning TD as time expired. It was scary, indeed.

And true story, our ride had his SUV windows busted out with a brick after the game from a disgruntled fan. This was a Raiders fan who warned me and my brother that he would leaves us at the curb if we wore a shred of red.

But otherwise, it was a fun experience.

Is Kaeperning over? I mean, it's a meme that's 24 hours old by now. It's done, right?

Speaking of SF's skinny/fast QB, does anyone know exactly what his tattoos say? I always find myself thinking I want to read his arms, but he never stays still long enough for me to do so.

P.S. There's a GIF of Kaepernick's run at the link above. It blows my mind that the Packers' DE turns his back on the play and runs downfield for about 10 yards without noticing Kaepernick. Unbelievable.

Oh, I see jdzappa knows Jayhawker, too!