What the hell is wrong with Steubenville, OH?

Media is predominantly slanted to the negative. And I do not mean just emotionally. What gets more attention is the negative proposition like Global Warming is myth says Dr. X. And this is a world over phenomenon, I might be able to dig up some studies into England and Italy on the topic.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

I'm not sure that's totally fair - we don't know (even from the Indianapolis Star piece) that there aren't folks in town decrying the harassment of a sexually-assaulted young girl.

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

That's true and I can't just drive over and find out. My point was that typically if there are two sides reporters frikin love that stuff. So we might find out about it. Especially if they were vocal and reaching out through the internet.

I guess my point is that when I see a headline of "Boston Residents angry over X" I assume this means not all of them. I understand the article went further than that, but if there were a serious counter effort I think we would likely find out about it as in "boston residents fight over X"

I completely agree with your point that we can't know for sure, but I suspect the vagas odds are against a real local backlash against the hate. More likely a quiet shaking of heads.

MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:
MacBrave wrote:

It is Elwood, Indiana. Think Progress has corrected the article. When I read the article it said 'Eldwood'.

Then I think I'm a little confused. Because a typo got past their copy editor and into the initially-published piece the author "can't even get the name of the town right"? It's not like the town name is at all an important part of the piece.

Oh -maybe you live in Eldwood? I could definitely see being upset about your town name being unfairly besmirched, if so. And ThinkProgress should apologize, and probably note when edits are made to a published piece - regardless of how trivial a correction might seem to the editor at the time, it's clearly reasonable for a town to not want their name dragged through the mud like that.

I know of no town in Indiana named "Eldwood".

I think it's reasonable for the populace of an entire town to not want their name dragged through the mud due to the statements/actions of a few residents of that town.

If there is no town in Indiana named "Eldwood" then who was having the name of their town dragged through the mud because of that typo? You would think the residents of Elwood would be pleased with the typo. "Eldwood? Ah yes--very different from our nice little town of Elwood. 'Tis a terrible place."

Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

Hold on Sally. I'm not done being incensed at someone using a half-accurate generalization on the Internet to have time to care about Some Girl.

Seth wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

Hold on Sally. I'm not done being incensed at someone using a half-accurate generalization on the Internet to have time to care about Some Girl.

Sure does seem that way.

SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

Yes, it is an outright shame that some small-minded individuals would subject a young women to disgusting slurs, gossip, and innuendo.

I have a co-worker that lives in Elwood. I will try and and ask him his take on the matter.

MacBrave wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

Yes, it is an outright shame that some small-minded individuals would subject a young women to disgusting slurs, gossip, and innuendo.

I have a co-worker that lives in Elwood. I will try and and ask him his take on the matter.

Sucks a 13-year old got raped by a 17-year old too, right?

SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

I trust that MacBrave is appalled by both the sexual assault and how some folks in town have responded to the girl in the article, and was trying to make a point about media portrayals of "flyover state" America being a little quick to generalize (though I think he'd probably concede that quibbling about a typo wasn't the best way to make that point).

As a fellow "flyover state" resident, I'm definitely familiar with the phenomenon he's getting at - hell, during the Madison uprising, Fox News ran footage with palm trees in the background, trying to portray our protests as violent.

I'd be interested to hear the co-worker's take on both the initial assault and the subsequent harassment and vandalism that's ensued.

This whole culture that's developed -where we obfuscate or ignore a point by feigning personal offense at a generalization that barely even counts as negative - it's just exhausting.

Like we've forgotten the "warts and all" part.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

I trust that MacBrave is appalled by both the sexual assault and how some folks in town have responded to the girl in the article, and was trying to make a point about media portrayals of "flyover state" America being a little quick to generalize (though I think he'd probably concede that quibbling about a typo wasn't the best way to make that point).

As a fellow "flyover state" resident, I'm definitely familiar with the phenomenon he's getting at - hell, during the Madison uprising, Fox News ran footage with palm trees in the background, trying to portray our protests as violent.

I'd be interested to hear the co-worker's take on both the initial assault and the subsequent harassment and vandalism that's ensued.

I too live in a flyover state, but if someone raped a little girl in my community and then shamed her I can assure you my first response would not be indignity at my small town's being maligned.

Seth wrote:

This whole culture that's developed -where we obfuscate or ignore a point by feigning personal offense at a generalization that barely even counts as negative - it's just exhausting.

Like we've forgotten the "warts and all" part.

Seth, I agree with you overall but this article just seemed to paint way too broadly for my taste about the citizens of Elwood. In Steubenville, you could see strong public support for the football player rapists. I'm not sure bullying and vandalism can be seen as evidence that the town embraces rape culture, or if its evidence that high school sucks and some kids are unbelievably cruel.

The real takeaway from the original IndyStar article was how juvenile offenders were being given extremely lenient sentences for rape and molestation.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
MacBrave wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

If MacBrave's actual objection is that the ThinkProgress synopsis paints with too broad a brush, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yes, that is my objection regarding the Think Progress synopsis.

Sure is too bad about that poor girl too, right?

I trust that MacBrave is appalled by both the sexual assault and how some folks in town have responded to the girl in the article, and was trying to make a point about media portrayals of "flyover state" America being a little quick to generalize (though I think he'd probably concede that quibbling about a typo wasn't the best way to make that point).

As a fellow "flyover state" resident, I'm definitely familiar with the phenomenon he's getting at - hell, during the Madison uprising, Fox News ran footage with palm trees in the background, trying to portray our protests as violent. :)

Thank you Dimmer. My apologies if I offended anybody by my awkward initial comments. I still have a great deal of trouble at times with getting my thoughts across, both in a written and spoken medium.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

I'd be interested to hear the co-worker's take on both the initial assault and the subsequent harassment and vandalism that's ensued.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to talk to him today. We work in different sections and our paths don't always cross during the work day.

Wow. Time to calm down a bit. MacBrave has a perfectly valid point about the media (or in this case a specific article) using an overly broad brush.

Pointing out that something was badly written and over generalized does not in any way indicate you are OK with the behavior being described much less the rape.

Maybe that broad brush isn't what we think the conversation should be about. But that isn't really a counter point.

realityhack wrote:

Wow. Time to calm down a bit. MacBrave has a perfectly valid point about the media (or in this case a specific article) using an overly broad brush.

Pointing out that something was badly written and over generalized does not in any way indicate you are OK with the behavior being described much less the rape.

Maybe that broad brush isn't what we think the conversation should be about. But that isn't really a counter point.

I think everyone's already calm, realityhack - we're good; don't need a den mother

Tanglebones wrote:

I think everyone's already calm, realityhack - we're good; don't need a den mother

Perhaps I misread the situation. Sorry.

realityhack wrote:

Wow. Time to calm down a bit. MacBrave has a perfectly valid point about the media (or in this case a specific article) using an overly broad brush.

Pointing out that something was badly written and over generalized does not in any way indicate you are OK with the behavior being described much less the rape.

Actually...it does. It's a method of misdirection that is often unintended, as it was here, but no less insidious. It happens in the feminism threads approximately every third post, and continues for pages. Look at almost every thread where someone takes offense at a generalization; suddenly you get pages and pages of off topic banter about the generalization rather than about the issue. It's a great way to get people to stop talking about the topic and start talking about the generalization.

Hell we've got pages of posts utterly unrelated to the original topic right here. It represents probably 25% of this entire thread. Whether it was intended or not, it stopped talking about the remarkable failure of a Midwestern town to protect an innocent girl.

Which, in retrospect, is probably fine. I don't see anyone defending the rights of the vandals and rapists here.

Seth, I understand that. But if the point is valid and you want to move on you can just acknowledge it and move on.
My issue was with peoples posts that were stepping just up to the line of accusing MacBrave of not caring about the girl. I don't think those were called for.

I would say something back on topic but I think most of it has been said. This is a horrible situation and it is completely unacceptable that even some of the community are making it worse. This is a horrible part of our culture that we need to stamp out.

If you really understood, you wouldn't be contributing to the "last word" competition as gleefully as you have been since yesterday.

A judge just ruled that Trent Mays is going on the sex offender registry once he completes his sentence at juvie. He'll have to register every six months for the next 20 years.

A similar hearing for Ma'lik Richmond hasn't been set yet.

You stay classy, Serena Williams.

Serena just shakes her head. “Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don’t know. I’m not blaming the girl, but if you’re a 16-year-old and you’re drunk like that, your parents should teach you: don’t take drinks from other people.

In my "whu--?" phase, I thought perhaps it was a black person (and athlete) sticking up for another, a la Dave Chappelle's take on an R. Kelly trial.

Actually, I thought a lot of us agreed with her first question:

No we don't think it is fair that they ONLY got 2 years...

And then the second part:

They did do something stupid, among other descriptors...

And then the 3rd part:

We don't blame the girl...

But taken as a whole, I should not be as shocked as I am about an extremely wealthy athlete's naivete. And the fact that she is blaming the girl despite her desire not to.

HP left out the second part of the quote:

Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don’t know. I’m not blaming the girl, but if you’re a 16-year-old and you’re drunk like that, your parents should teach you: don’t take drinks from other people. She’s 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn’t remember? It could have been much worse. She’s lucky. Obviously I don’t know, maybe she wasn’t a virgin, but she shouldn’t have put herself in that position, unless they slipped her something, then that’s different.

Emphasis mine. She seems to be into the distressingly common thought that rape is only bad if the victim was a virgin. Or at least that that incredibly dramatically increases the severity.

It's common and comforting to think that old white males are the source of all of our bigotry, but it's important to keep in mind that very wide swaths of our society have deep problems with these issues.

Fang just labeled her an "extremely wealthy athlete" but she grew up in Compton and her older sister was killed in gang violence.

Fang just labeled her an "extremely wealthy athlete" but she grew up in Compton and her older sister was killed in gang violence.

But she has been living a life of luxury for 10 or 15 years?

If this is an accurate reflection of what she said, I have to say she sucks.
Given her halfhearted "What I supposedly said" rather than outright denial or 'If they don't have audio I am suing the crap out of them'. I suspect it is.

"Do you think it was fair, what they got? They did something stupid, but I don’t know."
Stupid? Really? They rape an unconscious girl and brag about it and your word of they day is 'stupid'?
And - You don't know? Gee maybe they should have been fined a six pack or something.

"I’m not blaming the girl"
And here comes blaming the girl

"if you’re a 16-year-old and you’re drunk like that, your parents should teach you: don’t take drinks from other people"

Check victim blamed

"She’s 16, why was she that drunk where she doesn’t remember?"
Twice

"I don’t know, maybe she wasn’t a virgin, but she shouldn’t have put herself in that position,"
And shamed and blamed again.

Hey we found a woman who is black and famous but is not threatening to white people, let's get her comment. Just like Jeremy Irons vamping on gay marriage, this was designed to produce something truly awful that would get attention.

What is great is how down Rolling Stone has gotten, to continuing this TMZ quality in the magazine. I am assuming that the 2014 presidential primaries will be commented on heavily by Selena Gomez?

And Serena? She has a publicist who needs to be fired and replaced with someone who can do their damn job by vetting interviews and making sure what gets published is germane to her client.

KingGorilla wrote:

Hey we found a woman who is black and famous but is not threatening to white people, let's get her comment. Just like Jeremy Irons vamping on gay marriage, this was designed to produce something truly awful that would get attention.

What is great is how down Rolling Stone has gotten, to continuing this TMZ quality in the magazine. I am assuming that the 2014 presidential primaries will be commented on heavily by Selena Gomez?

I don't understand this post at all. A famous person comments on a topical issue and it is Rolling Stone's fault? I think it is an enlightening glimpse at how society socializes even strong women to automatically blame the victim.

Rolling Stone adorably mistakes itself for a news periodical sometimes, that is sure. But asking Serena Williams to comment on the Steubenville incident without knowing how informed she is is just fishing for a gaff, and that is the fault of the writer and the editors to let this TMZ nonsense into the magazine. This is in the same vein of asking Ms. Utah to solve the gender pay gap.

Or, as I said, this is her publicist not doing his/her own job to vet interviews and see the final copy.

And as a great ball player once said:

Well I must be adorable because I find it edifying to read the thoughts of someone who should probably know better commenting on a case and considering what that says about society at large.