The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All

What a great feeling to wake up to this morning: four HUGE wins for marriage equality.

I am now taking bets on how fast the states' rights folks who wanted marriage equality decided at the state level and by popular vote will now be calling for a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

I give it 72 hours or less.

Personally, I was hoping for just one win last night. Just one, so NOM wouldn't be able to use that line about how "every time it's put to a vote" and crow about how they're on the right side of history.

All four? My God, I'm over the moon on that one. A friend of mine in MD announced his engagement to his partner, as did one in WA. In one night, the number of states that would allow Phoenix Rev and I to be married (were we not already) jumped by 50%. Hopefully the vote in MN sets up a structure that will overturn their statute banning marriage equality in the near future. Hopefully, last night's wins are the pebbles rolling down the hill that will soon kick off the avalanche of marriage equality throughout the US.

There's a story that PR has related previously, but it's about when he and I picked up our marriage license. We went to the city hall, did all the paperwork and such, and then went out to the car with the document. I was driving that day, and when we got to the car, all I could do was sit and stare at my hands for a few minutes. When I'd come to the realization that I was gay back in college, I'd had to resign myself to the fact that I'd never be able to marry, because in 1994/5 it wasn't even an option anywhere in the world. All of a sudden, in my lifetime, the opportunity to actually marry the man I fell in love with was not only an option, it was really going to happen.

Now, I get to see my friends be able to experience the same joys I've had. 4 years ago, PR and I watched the results for California come in, and our joy at being newlyweds was tempered by knowing our rights had been messed with by the passage of Prop 8.

4 years later, we watched the results come in, and we were able to share that rush of joy I'd had in 2008 with our friends in Maine, Maryland, and Washington. Our friends in Minnesota may be coming soon, and hopefully I'll be able to attend my friend's wedding, just like he attended mine.

High five, Ed.

This is a quote from a friend of mine from a previous discussion on Facebook.

Also worth noting is that in the years after CT approved gay marriage, polls showed public support shot up - maybe because the gates of Hell didn't swing open, people didn't marry horses, the moral fabric of society stayed A-OK, and so on. Because gay marriage laws only impact the folks who are finally gaining the rights they deserved from the beginning.

I'm really hoping that last night is either the first signs of or the cause of that kind change on a national level.

SixteenBlue wrote:

This is a quote from a friend of mine from a previous discussion on Facebook.

Also worth noting is that in the years after CT approved gay marriage, polls showed public support shot up - maybe because the gates of Hell didn't swing open, people didn't marry horses, the moral fabric of society stayed A-OK, and so on. Because gay marriage laws only impact the folks who are finally gaining the rights they deserved from the beginning.

I'm really hoping that last night is either the first signs of or the cause of that kind change on a national level.

IMAGE(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/05/10/us/politics/fivethirtyeight-0509-ssm1/fivethirtyeight-0509-ssm1-blog480.png)

I am honestly more proud right now than I ever have been of living in Maryland.

I want to add my personal warm wishes to everyone personally affected--

Rubb Ed wrote:

All four? My God, I'm over the moon on that one.

--but whoa, let's keep the sexy-talk to a minimum.

So I am having some trouble finding this info. Any "history" I am trying to find of gay pride parades and festivals starts with Stonewall.

What I am wondering is at what point did LGBT groups begin to organize nationally and annually. A large component in any civil rights matter for minorities, women, etc takes concerted and consistent effort. When you talk civil rights for African Americans, the roots are in the latter 1890's, but it is really in the war and post war that you see consistent and concerted efforts. And it is not until the 50's that you see the NAACP with the help of a simple lawyer named Thurgood Marshall begin a serious campaign against the laws.

KingGorilla wrote:

So I am having some trouble finding this info. Any "history" I am trying to find of gay pride parades and festivals starts with Stonewall.

What I am wondering is at what point did LGBT groups begin to organize nationally and annually. A large component in any civil rights matter for minorities, women, etc takes concerted and consistent effort. When you talk civil rights for African Americans, the roots are in the latter 1890's, but it is really in the war and post war that you see consistent and concerted efforts. And it is not until the 50's that you see the NAACP with the help of a simple lawyer named Thurgood Marshall begin a serious campaign against the laws.

This piece covers the pre-Stonewall history a bit & has links for further study:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...

Same-sex marriage upheld by Spain's highest court | http://ow.ly/f6RJ2

The support of gay marriage makes me proud to be a Marylander.

KingGorilla wrote:

So I am having some trouble finding this info. Any "history" I am trying to find of gay pride parades and festivals starts with Stonewall.

What I am wondering is at what point did LGBT groups begin to organize nationally and annually. A large component in any civil rights matter for minorities, women, etc takes concerted and consistent effort. When you talk civil rights for African Americans, the roots are in the latter 1890's, but it is really in the war and post war that you see consistent and concerted efforts. And it is not until the 50's that you see the NAACP with the help of a simple lawyer named Thurgood Marshall begin a serious campaign against the laws.

Unfortunately not much was being written down for obvious reasons and then a lot of the principles involved have passed away.

Try the documentary 'Before Stonewall'. Some crazy person posted it to youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v2qP...

I love that the anti-gay marriage movement has spent wasted collective billions recently in trying to promote their agenda.

Sure, billions of dollars could be better spent to benefit humanity in a positive way, I get that. I wish that was where that money could have gone. It's just that my heart warms every time I think about the possibility that some bigot is scowling at a hole in their bank account that only fell to ignorance or hate-induced futility.

I'm so proud of my home (WA!) state <3

Amoebic wrote:

I love that the anti-gay marriage movement has spent wasted collective billions recently in trying to promote their agenda.

Sure, billions of dollars could be better spent to benefit humanity in a positive way, I get that. I wish that was where that money could have gone. It's just that my heart warms every time I think about the possibility that some bigot is scowling at a hole in their bank account that only fell to ignorance or hate-induced futility.

I'm so proud of my home (WA!) state <3

The downside to that is that billions were also spent/wasted by the winning side.

Who wins? Advertisers, that's who.

Al wrote:

In New York social conservatives punished Republican state Senators that voted for same sex marriage by withholding their support. It worked, those senators lost their seats. Unfortunately they lost them to Democrats who've now taken that state's Senate.

This just cracks me up.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

What a great feeling to wake up to this morning: four HUGE wins for marriage equality.

I hate to break this to you but you're wrong. There weren't four big wins for marriage equality. There were six.

In Iowa Rick Santorum stumped hard for Republicans making a run at the state senate and one of the Iowa Supreme Court judges who affirmed same sex marriage in 2009 was up to be removed from the bench. Democrats held the state senate and Judge Wiggins kept his seat.

In New York social conservatives punished Republican state Senators that voted for same sex marriage by withholding their support. It worked, those senators lost their seats. Unfortunately they lost them to Democrats who've now taken that state's Senate. That pretty much derails NOM's plan to overturn SSM in New York.

wrong thread. But the news here is also good news!

Al wrote:

Rick Santorum stumped hard for Republicans

Why do these threads always devolve into hot, sexy talk?

Someone just posted this to my facebook page and I thought it was chuckle worthy

"It all makes perfect sense now: Gay marriage legalized on the same day as marijuana makes perfect biblical sense. Leviticus 20:13 "A man who lays with another should be stoned." Our interpretation has just been wrong all these years" -Katie Stephens
I am now taking bets on how fast the states' rights folks who wanted marriage equality decided at the state level and by popular vote will now be calling for a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

I was thinking a related thought, with regard to the pot legalization bills: both these issues are great ways to find out if a professed 'states rightsist' is actually interested in state rights, or if it's really about racism.

Malor wrote:
I am now taking bets on how fast the states' rights folks who wanted marriage equality decided at the state level and by popular vote will now be calling for a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

I was thinking a related thought, with regard to the pot legalization bills: both these issues are great ways to find out if a professed 'states rightsist' is actually interested in state rights, or if it's really about racism.

I made the same comment to my wife this weekend. Let's see how this plays out.

Paleocon wrote:

Someone just posted this to my facebook page and I thought it was chuckle worthy

"It all makes perfect sense now: Gay marriage legalized on the same day as marijuana makes perfect biblical sense. Leviticus 20:13 "A man who lays with another should be stoned." Our interpretation has just been wrong all these years" -Katie Stephens

I almost posted that but all versions of Leviticus 20:13 that I googled (I don't own a bible, I don't think) talked about death, not stoning.

Stoning was a popular method of execution for semitic tribes during that time period.

Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh. NOM is just... vile.

“Their international outreach is where we can have the most effect,” Brown said. “So for example, in Qatar, in the Middle East, we’ve begun working to make sure that there’s some price to be paid for this. These are not countries that look kindly on same-sex marriage. And this is where Starbucks wants to expand, as well as India. So we have done some of this; we’ve got to do a lot more.”

Seth wrote:

Stoning was a popular method of execution for semitic tribes during that time period.

What a fantastic article. When the media spokesperson for the Catholic Church can only pull misdirection ("polygamy is next!") and false equivalence ("you're crushing my freedom of religion!") to further their point, the fight at this point is obviously against them over time.

I've really wondered, though, if the slippery slope argument might not apply. I mean, people arguing for the right to arrange their social lives how they see fit is the ultimate endgame here, I would think.

Congrats to those states who've voted in favour of love and here's hoping the haters and the bigots get buried in the avalanche of popular opinion.

Malor wrote:

I've really wondered, though, if the slippery slope argument might not apply. I mean, people arguing for the right to arrange their social lives how they see fit is the ultimate endgame here, I would think.

That's been true for centuries though, hasn't it? (I'd argue for even longer, but I'll keep it constrained to America to sort of try to keep this on topic.) Our ethos changes over generations. While that change has accelerated over the past few centuries, I think that the root cause of that acceleration is technology and the increased access to information which it provides.