The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All

Seth wrote:

I agree she's a bigot and a nasty, nasty person, but don't take the cheap shot of a fat joke. We have a whole thread about that.

Taking a lesson from the classic "How to Tell People they sound racist" video, I find it's often far more productive to focus on what folks say/do, regardless of whether the ignorance that's being spewed is racist, or some other flavor of bigotry (as was the case here).

That said, watching that interview hurt my head and made me want to punch things.

Seth wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

F*ck that woman and everything she stands for. Offensive, repulsive, disgusting, sh*t-eating, stupid cow. That's one of the singly most horrific speeches I've ever seen somebody give.

I agree she's a bigot and a nasty, nasty person, but don't take the cheap shot of a fat joke. We have a whole thread about that.

Say what? "Cow" is not necessarily a fat joke, it's also used in the "easily cowed" sense in that she's a moron.

But hey, way to focus on the really important stuff here.

Can you clarify your post? I am not sure what you mean.

edit, because the above was meant for Dimmer.

Do you really expect me to believe you meant to call the heavy girl a "coward" when you referred to her as a cow? Cmon, Milkman. Don't get defensive because you used an inappropriate insult. I agreed with the nature of your post. Just take the criticism and ignore/accept it.

Seth wrote:

Can you clarify your post? I am not sure what you mean.

edit, because the above was meant for Dimmer.

Do you really expect me to believe you meant to call the heavy girl a "coward" when you referred to her as a cow? Cmon, Milkman. Don't get defensive because you used an inappropriate insult. I agreed with the nature of your post. Just take the criticism and ignore/accept it.

He meant that he used "cow" like "sheep", but yes, that's not the typical usage in this context in general.

I've seen and heard skinny women like Ann Coulter referred to as a "cow" as well. I see it more as a general insult more than a comment on their weight. That being said, I've never heard a man referred to as a "cow", so perhaps that's not really any better.

Seth wrote:

Can you clarify your post? I am not sure what you mean.

Sure, but you should watch the video as well. I'll wait.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I was agreeing with your general point, and intending to make the broader argument that focusing on the person is, in general, a poor choice. Whether we're calling someone fat, a sheep, a racist, or a bigot, is less productive than criticizing the content of what was said/done.

Rephrased: the conversation about the content is the one you want to have, not the one about what kind of person would say/do such a thing.

(Hope that clarifies things a bit - I'm heading to the gym now, but will try to remember to check back in later today).

Dimmerswitch wrote:
Seth wrote:

Can you clarify your post? I am not sure what you mean.

Sure, but you should watch the video as well. I'll wait.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I was agreeing with your general point, and intending to make the broader argument that focusing on the person is, in general, a poor choice. Whether we're calling someone fat, a sheep, a racist, or a bigot, is less productive than criticizing the content of what was said/done.

Rephrased: the conversation about the content is the one you want to have, not the one about what kind of person would say/do such a thing.

(Hope that clarifies things a bit - I'm heading to the gym now, but will try to remember to check back in later today).

It does, thank you.

Dysplastic wrote:

I've seen and heard skinny women like Ann Coulter referred to as a "cow" as well. I see it more as a general insult more than a comment on their weight. That being said, I've never heard a man referred to as a "cow", so perhaps that's not really any better.

That's a good point too. "Sheep" would have been a better choice of insult overall.

The point of insults and denigration is not to contribute to the dialogue, it's to express disgust and anger. The woman is a stupid, fat, racist cow (and "cow" refers to "fat" here just as much as calling a man a "bastard" means "illegitimate male child"), and she should be insulted. It's now socially unacceptable to proclaim racists beliefs in public, and people know that, if they have racist views, they need to shut the hell up or they'll be shouted down. Society has effectively battered racist morons in large part into silence. It's time to recognize that people like this woman are little more than horrific, scuzball bigots who need to be repeatedly told how offensive their stupid, knuckle-dragging views are so that they shut the hell up and keep to themselves.

Views like hers are not helped by rational discussion or calmly pointing out the logical inconsistencies anyone with half a brain can see. Views like hers need to be placed in a public space so everybody can crap on them.

Farscry wrote:
Seth wrote:

Can you clarify your post? I am not sure what you mean.

edit, because the above was meant for Dimmer.

Do you really expect me to believe you meant to call the heavy girl a "coward" when you referred to her as a cow? Cmon, Milkman. Don't get defensive because you used an inappropriate insult. I agreed with the nature of your post. Just take the criticism and ignore/accept it.

He meant that he used "cow" like "sheep", but yes, that's not the typical usage in this context in general.

Wait... what?
How is a herding animal that regurgitates what it is fed over and over while producing a by-product affectionately referred to as B.S. NOT appropriate in this context?
There is no weight-related connotation in that term in my mind whatsoever. But then I've lived on a farm and actually seen cows.

Edit: Upon further reflection I came up with some inflections and modifiers that would associate 'cow' with weight, but to think that this is how it was used in the expletive riddled diatribe above would take a large stretch in my mind. Especially with as liberally the modifiers were being applied. The road from Fat Cow to Stupid Cow may be short, but that doesn't put them in the same field.

I petition to rename this thread to "The Cow as an insult / videos of ignorant bigots Catch-all".

Or maybe we can talk about marriage equality?

Thanks for the update Phoenix Rev, it's awesome to see how much support is changing over such little time.

I'm also really hoping that Dan Savage debate actually happens (I'm expecting it wont). I'm not really a fan of his podcast but I really like listening to that guy talk seriously.

Rezzy wrote:

The road from Fat Cow to Stupid Cow may be short, but that doesn't put them in the same field.

I don't want to prolong the derail, but I also just felt I had to give props to Rezzy for a great one-liner.

For what it's worth, I think of 'cow' as being a specific, female-oriented insult that means both fat and stupid. Like, you know, cows.

Except, cows aren't generally fat. Or very stupid, actually.

Or at all endemic to gay marriage.

I have no idea why I'm even posting this. I use cow as substitute for annoying because I find mooing annoying. I do understand it is mostly used to mean fat though, just not by me.

Cows *are* pretty stupid. Pigs, on the other hand, are often smarter than dogs.

Cows are terrifically stupid, but if they could, I'm sure they'd argue they're just big-boned.

If calling somebody a "cow" was meant to imply that they are fat, the derivative "fat cow" wouldn't exist.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

The point of insults and denigration is not to contribute to the dialogue, it's to express disgust and anger.

We agree on this point.

On-topic, a federal judge yesterday found a law banning recognition of same-sex marriage to be unconstitutional, as well as a portion of the tax code which is discriminatory against same-sex couples.

By the standards of farm animals, cows aren't that dumb. They just have a tendency to ruminate.

They just have a tendency to ruminate.

Argh. Of course, that's actually where 'ruminate' comes from.

Truly, the depth and breadth of the homosexual conspiracy is shocking.

I just recently saw the Newsweek cover that had a picture of Obama with a rainbow halo which proclaimed in big letters "The First Gay President". Now, okay, I get the idea behind it but really? Mind you, my reaction may have been colored a bit as it was sitting next to another magazine at the grocery store checkout that proclaimed "Obama admits the game is up and admits he's Kenyan" and that "Michelle is filing for divorce from Obama".

I know covers are designed to simply grab attention and move units but isn't calling Obama the first gay President for changing his stance on something that's already gaining support almost 4 years into his term a bit like calling Lincoln the first black President just because he once said "Ya know, maybe those guys AREN'T property after all?". Just because you don't actively hate and want to repress a population wouldn't seem to qualify you as a member of said population, would it?

Kehama wrote:

I know covers are designed to simply grab attention and move units but isn't calling Obama the first gay President for changing his stance on something that's already gaining support almost 4 years into his term a bit like calling Lincoln the first black President just because he once said "Ya know, maybe those guys AREN'T property after all?".

I think it's supposed to be more like calling Bill Clinton the first black President.

Great clip, Cheeze!

One thing that struck me from the video is how laughable it is to call the Republicans and Democrats as essentially the same.

Thanks! There was also this back in 2002:

Bill Clinton, once famously described by author Toni Morrison as "our first black president," is being inducted into the Arkansas Black Hall of Fame as an honorary member. The former president will be the first non-black recognized in the hall's 10-year history. He is expected to attend the Saturday night event.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...

Besides, everyone knows that James Buchanan was the first gay president.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/AwI0J.jpg)