The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All

Maybe he planned to make her quit by touching her arm. Worked on Boehner.

Paleocon wrote:

I think it is a whole lot easier to show harm in the case of polygamy than it is in same sex marriage. Polygamous communities are notorious for the horrific ways they treat women as well as for their callous and often malicious disregard for surplus males. The "Lost Boys" of the FLDS is well documented and is perhaps the single most underreported story about the dangers of "religious tolerance" in the United States.

In pretty sharp contrast, the only harm anyone has been able to show resultant from a same sex marriage is that religious people get pissy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_b...

This argument is tantamount to pointing at a series of domestic violence incidents involving same sex couples and saying "see? the gays shouldn't be allowed to be married."

farley3k wrote:

Vatican: Pope's Meeting With Kim Davis 'Not A Form Of Support'

The Vatican said Friday that Pope Francis' meeting with Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who went to jail for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses, "should not be considered a form of support of her position."

Umm....bullsh*t? He sure as heck didn't meet her because she was "clerk of the week!" She isn't even Catholic so he can't claim to just be reaching out to average members of his church.

No rational person would consider the meeting to be anything but a show of support for her position. The more the Vatican tries to sell this the stupider they look.

Apparently they are now reporting that the pope also met with a same sex couple while here. My cynical side says they just manufactured this after the blowback from Kim Davis.

Jonman wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I think it is a whole lot easier to show harm in the case of polygamy than it is in same sex marriage. Polygamous communities are notorious for the horrific ways they treat women as well as for their callous and often malicious disregard for surplus males. The "Lost Boys" of the FLDS is well documented and is perhaps the single most underreported story about the dangers of "religious tolerance" in the United States.

In pretty sharp contrast, the only harm anyone has been able to show resultant from a same sex marriage is that religious people get pissy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_b...

This argument is tantamount to pointing at a series of domestic violence incidents involving same sex couples and saying "see? the gays shouldn't be allowed to be married."

If you say so.

The fact that a surplus of young males has historically resulted in mechanisms like excommunication and shunning is well known and well documented. We can show societal harm and a connection to proximal cause.

I don't see any connection between same sex couples and a higher incidence or severity of domestic violence. Do you know of one?

Apparently, the Pope met a group of about 40+ people, including Kim Davis, who were selected by the Papal Nunciate (the diplomatic corps) in Washington DC. He had a private meeting with just one, a former student (and his family). The others were essentially ushered into his presence and he did a line walk, briefly speaking to each one.

The Vatican insists that the Pope did not know details of the scandal, and clearly he thought she was Catholic, because he gave her two rosaries.

My speculation is that candidates for this meeting were nominated by their Bishops. The Bishop of Charleston is very outspoken against gay marriage. I'm wondering whether he nominated her, possibly due to her Catholic parents and upbringing, as a way to gain some traction against the gay marriage advocates in the current dispute.

The FLDS tend to be pretty rampant welfare scammers as well, they really are just the whole package.

Paleocon wrote:

If you say so.

The fact that a surplus of young males has historically resulted in mechanisms like excommunication and shunning in this one, very specific, rigid and limited model of polygamy is well known and well documented. We can show societal harm and a connection to proximal cause.

I don't see any connection between same sex couples and a higher incidence or severity of domestic violence. Do you know of one?

Your dataset is not representative.

Robear wrote:

Apparently, the Pope met a group of about 40+ people, including Kim Davis, who were selected by the Papal Nunciate (the diplomatic corps) in Washington DC. He had a private meeting with just one, a former student (and his family). The others were essentially ushered into his presence and he did a line walk, briefly speaking to each one.

The Vatican insists that the Pope did not know details of the scandal, and clearly he thought she was Catholic, because he gave her two rosaries.

This is all news to me. Do you have a source for this? Sorry to LMGTFY, but I'm not in a good place to Google it.

Jonman wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

If you say so.

The fact that a surplus of young males has historically resulted in mechanisms like excommunication and shunning in this one, very specific, rigid and limited model of polygamy is well known and well documented. We can show societal harm and a connection to proximal cause.

I don't see any connection between same sex couples and a higher incidence or severity of domestic violence. Do you know of one?

Your dataset is not representative.

Perhaps this would help.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...

Psst.

Trophy Husband wrote:
Kamakazi010654 wrote:
karmajay wrote:

Man, it gets so tiring discussing these types of topics with people. A discussion I was having with a co-worker ended up on gay marriage and about what is next. i attempted to explain how all that WON'T happen next because marriage is about "2 consenting adults". My (I thought) discussion buster was "Is a dog a consenting adult?" It is amazing (or sad?) to see somebody try to explain how an animal can be a consenting adult. I mean, unless your immediate answer is NO! I have no idea how you belong in any discussion dude!

I am still really curious when somebody is going to try to take the "2" out of that equation.

Beastiality is not a logical jump from the new marriage definition. Polygamy on the other hand seems like one that could happen, and relatively easy.

We've discussed that a couple of times before. Seperated out into multiple threads to prevent derail.

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/...
https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/...

Quick, someone distract them with abortion or economics.

Clockworkhouse, here you go. It's hard not to conclude that the Pope was set up by some of his conservative detractors. In that narrative, the Bishop and Archbishop put Davis on the Nunciate's list, then released the information to a conservative Catholic news site as well as via Davis' lawyer, to embarrass the Pope and draw negative attention to him. The fact that both sides disagree on what happened just adds strength to this conclusion.

Thankfully, his record on comparing trans people to nuclear weapons stands, so we can confidently continue to not like him at all.

Looks like Cardinal Manchurian Candidate is about to get tossed in the Papal compost bin.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/pop...

I thought something like that might be in the works, but my thinking was that the SC bishop was going to get nailed.

The NYT's source for that quote was "several church analysts" so I'm not exactly going to hold my breath.

Well, it looks like the American cardinal was being forced to retire in January anyway, so it looks like a case of flushing cement down the toilets right before being evicted.

Thanks for the followup, Robear.

Hypatian wrote:

Thankfully, his record on comparing trans people to nuclear weapons stands, so we can confidently continue to not like him at all. :)

Wait...so trans people are powerful enough to end life on earth in the blink of an eye?

We should totally be treating them WAY nicer.

Spiritual life. Our power to tempt people into sin is just that strong. *flex*

Is it too late to ask for a meme image of Dante from Clerks saying, "Not even supposed to be here today. Still does his job."?

Might be too old a joke for most millennials, but I like it.

Did he really do his job though? He closed the store to play hockey on the roof. And again to go to a funeral.

Mixolyde wrote:

Is it too late to ask for a meme image of Dante from Clerks saying, "Not even supposed to be here today. Still does his job."?

Might be too old a joke for most millennials, but I like it.

Spoilering for NSFW language.

Spoiler:

IMAGE(http://reverbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/4.png)

Hypatian wrote:

Spiritual life. Our power to tempt people into sin is just that strong. *flex*

Actually large swaths of Catholic doctrine is based on certain assumptions - one of which is that binary gender is true. We try not to pay too much attention to that, but it's work that nonetheless happened. In fact, a great part of the body of Pope John Paul 2's theology is based on these kinds of assumptions.

Removing that assumption really would hit Catholic theology like a nuclear weapon.

We try not to pay too much attention to that, but it's work that nonetheless happened.

By "we" I presume you mean Catholics who are allies - because the church certainly pays attention to it.

Eh. It really, really depends where you are. I mean, we got gay and trans men around here openly participating in religious Catholic May parades and it doesn't seem to really be that big of a deal last time I looked.

Well, I mean, in the sense of enforcing those rules on those who take vows in the church. There's the occasional story of them refusing communion to LGBT people, but it doesn't happen often. And it would be no surprise if the church refused to marry two LGBT people (presuming they would even know in the case of heterosexual trans relationships).

Yeah. That doesn't happen all that much around here, either, that I know of. Could be wrong, but I ain't heard nothing. So long as both parties fulfill the requirements (man and woman as the Church defines) and they're in it for the religious aspects, there shouldn't be too much difficulty. The Church is all too happy to marry off gay men to women, no problem. Quite a few examples. It's really quite dependent on where ya are.

As a further example (getting afield here), one of my friends is very active as a Catholic AND he's very, very openly gay. He makes no secret whatsoever of his sexual proclivities and preferences. But he also professes not to have sex. Apparently, that's perfectly A-OK here. Not sure how that would fly elsewhere.

A lot of Catholic Church critics like to think of it as a single monolithic entity, but it's not. Doctrine is uniform, but practices differ widely. Just because your people rejected you doesn't mean that we would.

No, that sounds about right. Coming out was a shock to my parents, but my real problems started when I said I wasn't going to be celibate. They escalated when I said I was no longer Catholic...