The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All

JC wrote:

Given the choice between hanging out with a group of gay people, or hanging out with a group of religious people. I'll pick gay every time because they're FUN!

You say that like being gay and being religious are mutually exclusive.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
JC wrote:

Given the choice between hanging out with a group of gay people, or hanging out with a group of religious people. I'll pick gay every time because they're FUN!

You say that like being gay and being religious are mutually exclusive. In a thread started by Phoenix Rev.

It might be a quantum thing; PR is simultaneously gay and religious until he's observed. Then his waveform collapses into one of two states.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

If her objections are based on religious conviction, then it would be easier to argue that homosexuality isn't a sin than to argue that it isn't a choice. Setting up a situation where something is a sin but isn't a choice can be very cognitively dissonant from a religious perspective, particularly if you believe, as many do, that God would not put a person in a position of being doomed to failure. It can nag at the very underpinnings of faith, something not everyone is willing to confront.

That might help you understand a little better where she was coming from and what might have been going through her mind.

The problem is that she can't understand that her absolutist religious beliefs are actually highly subjective. I mean look at this paragraph she wrote:

The objective fact of racial equality is easy to see. Once America was challenged to embrace this truth and reject an unbiblical course, it eventually became a no-brainer, and most churches have since repented for teaching something unscriptural from the outset.

She argued that the Bible naturally supported the idea of racial equality while casually brushing aside the, what, three plus centuries it was used to specifically justify the supposed superiority of white men over non-whites.

She's so blinded by her beliefs that she can't see that she's exactly like the 18th century asshole who confidently explained that slavery was just the natural order of things as laid out in the Bible.

Years from now someone will be writing how all the sound and fury about homosexuality we're going through now was "unbiblical" and "unscriptural" and that marriage equality is a "no brainer."

I was referring to Kehama's comments about his mother-in-law, specifically the part I quoted in my post.

The religious position is that being gay isn't a sin, but committing homosexual acts is.

However, a lot of them single out gay "sinning" in a way they don't apply to other sinners. Lying, divorce, adultery, blasphemy, pre-marital sex, pornography, and masturbation are all considered mortal sins by the RCC. Kehama, have you ever heard your mother-in-law insist that those types of sinners don't belong in the rental cabin either?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I was referring to Kehama's comments about his mother-in-law, specifically the part I quoted in my post.

Whoops. My bad.

Some The religious positions are is that being gay isn't a sin, but committing homosexual acts is.

FTFY.

There are definitely religions that state being gay is the sin.

Fair point!

ClockworkHouse wrote:
JC wrote:

Given the choice between hanging out with a group of gay people, or hanging out with a group of religious people. I'll pick gay every time because they're FUN!

You say that like being gay and being religious are mutually exclusive.

Nah. Don't mean that at all. I have known a few devout Catholics that are gay and still go to church every Sunday. Despite the fact that they are demonized. Never did really understand that one.

JC wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
JC wrote:

Given the choice between hanging out with a group of gay people, or hanging out with a group of religious people. I'll pick gay every time because they're FUN!

You say that like being gay and being religious are mutually exclusive.

Nah. Don't mean that at all. I have known a few devout Catholics that are gay and still go to church every Sunday. Despite the fact that they are demonized. Never did really understand that one.

Catholicism is like an abusive parent. Sometimes it's best just not to tell him what you're doing. See: birth control. Or the fact that I ate pork last Friday.

Oh, yeah, Lent... Whoops.

.

Tanglebones wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
JC wrote:

Given the choice between hanging out with a group of gay people, or hanging out with a group of religious people. I'll pick gay every time because they're FUN!

You say that like being gay and being religious are mutually exclusive. In a thread started by Phoenix Rev.

It might be a quantum thing; PR is simultaneously gay and religious until he's observed. Then his waveform collapses into one of two states.

Video or it never happens.

/primps cassock
/claws at your flesh

NSMike wrote:
Some The religious positions are is that being gay isn't a sin, but committing homosexual acts is.

FTFY.

There are definitely religions that state being gay is the sin.

And some that say being gay and committing homosexual acts is not a sin.

/hugs his Congregationalist Church Book of Discipline (Shut up.)

Fred Phelps finally figures out how to make the world a better place.

Spoiler:

Roast in hell, you massive douchebag.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/CweSM2r.gif)

George Takei is a better man than me. But I knew that before today.

God (@TheTweetOfGod)][/url]OW!!!! OW OW OW OW OW OW OW!!! OWWWWWWWW!" - Fred Phelps, March 20, 2014

Jayhawker wrote:

George Takei is a better man than me. But I knew that before today.

God (@TheTweetOfGod)][/url]OW!!!! OW OW OW OW OW OW OW!!! OWWWWWWWW!" - Fred Phelps, March 20, 2014

The ultimate punishment for Phelps wouldn't be burning in the fires of Hell. It would be spending all of eternity marrying gay demons.

OG_slinger wrote:

The ultimate punishment for Phelps wouldn't be burning in the fires of Hell. It would be spending all of eternity marrying gay demons.

I find many parts of this statement theologically interesting. Also semantically.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/4UhN7Nt.jpg)

OG_slinger wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

George Takei is a better man than me. But I knew that before today.

God (@TheTweetOfGod)][/url]OW!!!! OW OW OW OW OW OW OW!!! OWWWWWWWW!" - Fred Phelps, March 20, 2014

The ultimate punishment for Phelps wouldn't be burning in the fires of Hell. It would be spending all of eternity marrying gay demons.

Maybe. But as someone who has spent a ton of time in Lawrence, KS, and has booked Phelps as a guest on two different radio shows, I can tell you that there is more than a little speculation that Phelps was gay. In that way, you almost have to feel sorry for this self-loathing troll. But then you see the real affect he has had on folks, and it is really hard to find any sympathy.

We went to see Johnny Cash at the Lied center in Lawrence and Phelps was there to boycott, which just seemed odd. When we questioned someone of the protesters as to why they were there, it came down to the fact that the Lied center also puts on ballets, and that's queer. Seriously, ballet is evil.

This was in the early 90's, and he was just this weird goofball. We started just ignoring him in Kansas. Of course, then he took his show on the road.

Judge strikes down bans on gay marriage, adoption in Mich.
(Oralandar Brand-Williams, The Detroit News, 2014-03-21)

A U.S. district judge has overturned Michigan’s bans on gay marriage and same-sex adoption.

In his 31-page written opinion released Friday, Judge Bernard Friedman said the constitutional amendment known as the Michigan Marriage Act, passed by the voters in 2004 was unconstitutional because it denied gays and lesbians equal protection under the law.

Hypatian wrote:

Judge strikes down bans on gay marriage, adoption in Mich.
(Oralandar Brand-Williams, The Detroit News, 2014-03-21)

A U.S. district judge has overturned Michigan’s bans on gay marriage and same-sex adoption.

In his 31-page written opinion released Friday, Judge Bernard Friedman said the constitutional amendment known as the Michigan Marriage Act, passed by the voters in 2004 was unconstitutional because it denied gays and lesbians equal protection under the law.

FINALLY.

A truly embarrassing pockmark on my otherwise beloved state, rectified.

I read most of the 31 page opinion. It is pretty good reading for a legal finding. Particularly the point where he calls Mark Regnerus (sp?) a hack. His study is poorly designed, doesn't test what it makes claims about and was basically results purchased by the funders.

God I hope this means they are going to overturn the other states that put this garbage in their constitution as well. I'm looking at you NC.

kaostheory wrote:

I read most of the 31 page opinion. It is pretty good reading for a legal finding. Particularly the point where he calls Mark Regnerus (sp?) a hack. His study is poorly designed, doesn't test what it makes claims about and was basically results purchased by the funders.

Yeah, I was reading the article and I saw mention of "experts" for the defense, and I was like "Who could they possibly have...?" and then read more and was like "Oh. Regnerus. Right."

Just a trivia bit here.

Ever since the DOMA decision by the SCOTUS last year, not a single federal court has upheld a gay marriage ban citing 1) the 14th Amendment and 2) the decision by the SCOTUS on DOMA last year.

The courts are establishing ironclad precedent.

Here's the quote on Regnerus:

Judge Friedman wrote:

The Court finds Regnerus's testimony entirely unbelievable and not worthy of serious consideration. The evidence adduced at trial demonstrated that his 2012 'study' was hastily concocted at the behest of a third-party funder, which found it 'essential that the necessary data be gathered to settle the question in the forum of public debate about what kinds of family arrangement are best for society' and which 'was confident that the traditional understanding of marriage will be vindicated by this study.' ... While Regnerus maintained that the funding source did not affect his impartiality as a researcher, the Court finds this testimony unbelievable. The funder clearly wanted a certain result, and Regnerus obliged.

I have a good friend of 21 years who posted on Facebook a few minutes ago that she's getting married tomorrow. Having your rights denied... I can't even imagine what that's like. Finding out at a moment's notice that "I'm getting married tomorrow" has to be surreal and kind of magical. So happy for her and others.