The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All

Of course, straights would never never do that.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Of course, straights would never never do that.

Nor have gays ever gotten opposite-gendered married in order to share benefits...

Because being gay in our society is nothing but rainbows. Wait...

Nevin73 wrote:

Because being gay in our society is nothing but rainbows. Wait...

Right, it's rainbows and purple triangles.

Implying government jobs are great and have awesome benefits.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:

Implying government jobs are great and have awesome benefits.

They do have great benes...they also haven't gotten a pay raise in like five years.

Paging Brittney Spears.

Nevin73 wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:

Implying government jobs are great and have awesome benefits.

They do have great benes...they also haven't gotten a pay raise in like five years.

About the only decent benefit I got after 4 years with the state was having my vasectomy paid for. I was promised a matching 6% put into my retirement account, only to find out when I quit that it only applied if I retired after 30 years. Anyway, I don't want to threadjack.

Hahahahaha, by taking that free vasectomy you have fallen right into the government's trap! You can no longer procreate and hence your marriage is annulled! Your increased taxes will pay for the procedure in a few short years. It's all profit after that.

OG_slinger wrote:

According to Sue Everhart, the Georgia GOP Chairwoman, the push for marriage equality is just a giant ruse to allow the takers to take more because straight people will pretend to be gay and have a sham gay marriage just so they can get those sweet, sweet government benefits:

You may be as straight as an arrow, and you may have a friend that is as straight as an arrow. Say you had a great job with the government where you had this wonderful health plan. I mean, what would prohibit you from saying that you’re gay, and y’all get married and still live as separate, but you get all the benefits? I just see so much abuse in this it’s unreal. I believe a husband and a wife should be a man and a woman, the benefits should be for a man and a woman. There is no way that this is about equality. To me, it’s all about a free ride.

Someone has been watching season 3 of Shameless.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/zqJzFPq.jpg)

bnpederson wrote:

At this point, Francis or Francisco.

His friends call him Frank, though.

Yonder wrote:

Hahahahaha, by taking that free vasectomy you have fallen right into the government's trap! You can no longer procreate and hence your marriage is annulled! Your increased taxes will pay for the procedure in a few short years. It's all profit after that.

Hey, I had to pay $163 for that worry-free sex.

OG_slinger wrote:

According to Sue Everhart, the Georgia GOP Chairwoman, the push for marriage equality is just a giant ruse to allow the takers to take more because straight people will pretend to be gay and have a sham gay marriage just so they can get those sweet, sweet government benefits:

You may be as straight as an arrow, and you may have a friend that is as straight as an arrow. Say you had a great job with the government where you had this wonderful health plan. I mean, what would prohibit you from saying that you’re gay, and y’all get married and still live as separate, but you get all the benefits? I just see so much abuse in this it’s unreal. I believe a husband and a wife should be a man and a woman, the benefits should be for a man and a woman. There is no way that this is about equality. To me, it’s all about a free ride.

When you have a government that highly incentivises marriage, it's only natural that everyone would want equal and fair access to such things. To simply say, "you can't do that because you both have penises" or whatever is just baseless discrimination, pure and simple. It's not asking for a free ride; it's asking for equality.

They've lost the intellectual argument squarely, and I think on some level they know it. Now, they're just doubling down on the crazy long enough to see if anything sticks.

I am fully convinced at this point that the recent polls showing widespread acceptance of gay marriage pushed the anti-marriage equality forces well past Crazytown and into Insanityville.

Take, for instance, the President of the Southern Baptist Convention, Fred Luter:

I would not be surprised that at the time when we are debating same-sex marriage, at a time when we are debating whether or not we should have gays leading the Boy Scout movement, I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that we have a mad man in Asia who is saying some of the things that he’s saying.

That mad man would be Kim Jung Un, the Dear Leader of North Korea.

Gay marriage. North Korea's insane leader. Yeah, I am sure we all can see the clear connection.

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Meanwhile, Tony Perkins over the Family Research Council is convinced that the reason why gays and lesbians try to commit suicide is because "they can't fill that God vacuum in their lives" because they are "in rebellion to God's design."

Of course, being told that you are demonic, a pedophile, worthy of death, disowned by your family and a host of other things would have nothing to do with suicide rates.

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On the other side of town, Brian Brown, the head of the National Organization for Marriage, doesn't quite know what the word "slur" means:

Well, I think it's a slur on the Americans, the majority of Americans who stood up to vote for what President Obama a year ago agreed to what Secretary Clinton agreed to two weeks ago that it takes a man and a woman to make a marriage. It's a slur on them to somehow say that opponents of redefining marriage are in the same boat as those who oppose interracial marriage. That is just a slur. It's an assertion. What we are fighting about is, is there a civil right to re redefine marriage? We say, no, are there is mo such civil right. The laws against interracial marriage were about keeping the races apart. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It's about bringing the sexes together. That is a good and beautiful thing, and I think it's a slur to say that it's bigotry to stand up for this truth.

Alas, another day with the desperate people trying to stop marriage equality.

Phoenix Rev wrote:
I would not be surprised that at the time when we are debating same-sex marriage, at a time when we are debating whether or not we should have gays leading the Boy Scout movement, I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that we have a mad man in Asia who is saying some of the things that he’s saying.

That mad man would be Kim Jung Un, the Dear Leader of North Korea.

Gay marriage. North Korea's insane leader. Yeah, I am sure we all can see the clear connection.

Ah, but this one is easily explained; just another example of an idiot who thinks the Onion is a real news source.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

I am fully convinced at this point that the recent polls showing widespread acceptance of gay marriage pushed the anti-marriage equality forces well past Crazytown and into Insanityville.

That is most definitely into Insanityville. I have to wonder if there's a feedback loop going here, polls shift, the very vocal crazy gets crazier, and it becomes hard to ignore that the anti-equality side is just.. that... so the polls sway further, and so on. If so then that kind of works out well for the pro-equality side eventually, it's just a shame the cost of that is hearing the spiteful spiral into madness from the anti side as it happens.

OG_slinger wrote:

According to Sue Everhart, the Georgia GOP Chairwoman, the push for marriage equality is just a giant ruse to allow the takers to take more because straight people will pretend to be gay and have a sham gay marriage just so they can get those sweet, sweet government benefits:

You may be as straight as an arrow, and you may have a friend that is as straight as an arrow. Say you had a great job with the government where you had this wonderful health plan. I mean, what would prohibit you from saying that you’re gay, and y’all get married and still live as separate, but you get all the benefits? I just see so much abuse in this it’s unreal. I believe a husband and a wife should be a man and a woman, the benefits should be for a man and a woman. There is no way that this is about equality. To me, it’s all about a free ride.

Considering the sweet deal that society is getting from my wife and I being childless and paying for public education, I think folks like this really ought to STFU before we get pissed and start going after the privileged status they enjoy.

I had a minor epiphany on my drive home today.

I had read a blog post this morning, which is pretty much on the money with its refrain of:
"Does this impact your daily life? No.
What should you do about it? Mind your own f***ing business."
after each section of how gay marriage might impact other people's marriages.

( full thing here )

And on the way home I was wondering what irrational thoughts it took to feel said impact.
And then it hit me. The model, the analogy that fits.

Not wanting gay people in their idea of "marriage" is directly analogous to not wanting people from particular racial, ethnic, and religious minorities in their neighborhood, country club, school, university, work place. Because they don't want the prestige or property value of said neighborhood, country club, etc. lowered by the inclusion of people they consider to be second class citizens. They simply consider LGBT folks to be less than themselves, as the definition of their own privileged spot. "3/5 of all other...".

Having recently re-watched Forrest Gump, the scene in which he sort of interrupts the National Guard escorting black students into a university in Alabama, and currently teaching "To Kill a Mockingbird" to my students here in Greece...it fits dead on. In the novel, the last bit of pride or self-worth that the horrible white family have, is that they're still above them.

Makes me also think of the piece that Jon Stewart did on the Daily Show last Thursday, that showed a graphic of all the (truly sad) heterosexual marriage/teen mom/teen marriage reality shows available in the U.S. pretty hilariously shows, that as far as actually "lowering the value of marriage"...

I think that theory is totally valid. Along with the theory that anti marriage equality folks are really operating with a thread of vicious sexism, and the theory that religious people view gay sex as the one crime God destroys cities for (a poor interpretation of scripture, but a widely held belief nonetheless), and we've got a whole smorgasbord of choices to fuel bigotry.

So a friend of a friend wrote an article I thought you guys might find interesting, figured I would share -

Conflicted Polls on Same-Sex Marriage.

Nothing stunning or earth-shattering, but an interesting summary all the same. I think that some folks on the pro-marriage-equality side sometimes overstate to each other just how far acceptance is snowballing through the country.

Bloo Driver wrote:

So a friend of a friend wrote an article I thought you guys might find interesting, figured I would share -

Conflicted Polls on Same-Sex Marriage.

Nothing stunning or earth-shattering, but an interesting summary all the same. I think that some folks on the pro-marriage-equality side sometimes overstate to each other just how far acceptance is snowballing through the country.

However, much of the discussion is regarding the momentum and the shift in attitudes. Keep in mind that in 1996 it was 68% against and 27% for. That's a lot of movement on an issue in a little more than 10 years.

Blondish83 wrote:
Bloo Driver wrote:

So a friend of a friend wrote an article I thought you guys might find interesting, figured I would share -

Conflicted Polls on Same-Sex Marriage.

Nothing stunning or earth-shattering, but an interesting summary all the same. I think that some folks on the pro-marriage-equality side sometimes overstate to each other just how far acceptance is snowballing through the country.

However, much of the discussion is regarding the momentum and the shift in attitudes. Keep in mind that in 1996 it was 68% against and 27% for. That's a lot of movement on an issue in a little more than 10 years.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying it's a false notion, just a sometimes possibly overstated one. Just more data to look at, in any case.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

I am fully convinced at this point that the recent polls showing widespread acceptance of gay marriage pushed the anti-marriage equality forces well past Crazytown and into Insanityville.

Alan Keyes just claimed that gay marriage was the "archetype of all crimes against humanity."

And, in other news, Stan Solomon is a piece of human garbage.

This clip does make me wonder, though, how social conservatives are going to react to the inevitable when it comes to gay marriage. I simply can't envisage someone like Solomon accepting a SCOTUS decision on something he's obviously very worked up about. I can't see that happening for a lot of the anti-marriage equality folks. They're whipped up into a fervor right now and all that fear and hatred has to go somewhere. My concern is that they'll switch over to violence or take all that unbridled emotion and blindly channel it into the next conservative cause.

Actually, my real concern is that social conservatives are ripe fruit waiting to be picked by a demagogue. They're politically organized and have plenty of financial backing. All that's missing is a charismatic political candidate who's drank the conservative Cool-Aid or who's willing to pretend that he did.

Rachel Maddow just tweeted some numbers; Democrats are 48-7 for marriage rights, Republicans are 2-43. The Senate is 50-50. It's not nearly enough, but it's something that would have seemed inconceivable even 10 years ago that the once-official home of Old White Guy power is up to 50-50.

With Joe Biden as the tie breaker, that's technically a majority of the Senate for gay marriage.

NSMike wrote:

With Joe Biden as the tie breaker, that's technically a majority of the Senate for gay marriage.

...and now take a look at the count in the house.

RoughneckGeek wrote:
NSMike wrote:

With Joe Biden as the tie breaker, that's technically a majority of the Senate for gay marriage.

...and now take a look at the count in the house.

Unless you want to have a good day, in which case, just skip that part.

Also, who are those seven democrats not supporting equal rights? If one of them is mine, I'm going to go nuts in a letter to that jerkwad.

Demosthenes wrote:
RoughneckGeek wrote:
NSMike wrote:

With Joe Biden as the tie breaker, that's technically a majority of the Senate for gay marriage.

...and now take a look at the count in the house.

Unless you want to have a good day, in which case, just skip that part.

Also, who are those seven democrats not supporting equal rights? If one of them is mine, I'm going to go nuts in a letter to that jerkwad.

Looks like it's because they don't want to lose their job in the next election

Arkansas, West Virginia, Indiana, Louisiana, South Dakota...

Anyone know what ever happened with Dan Savage's invite to Brian Brown for dinner and a debate?