Walking Dead (No Comics! No Spoilers Beyond What's Aired)!

Gaald wrote:
I think the Governor wants them to suffer, so this is the first attack of many. He knows he has the numbers and he will keep coming back and f*cking with them, until he is satisfied. The guy is completely sadistic.
This is terrible military strategy. You either offer a generous peace or you annihilate your enemy. Anything in between is just going to foster animosity and push conflict further down the road when the power positions may change.

boogle wrote:
Gaald wrote:
I think the Governor wants them to suffer, so this is the first attack of many. He knows he has the numbers and he will keep coming back and f*cking with them, until he is satisfied. The guy is completely sadistic.
This is terrible military strategy. You either offer a generous peace or you annihilate your enemy. Anything in between is just going to foster animosity and push conflict further down the road when the power positions may change.

Yes, and lunatics with revenge on the mind often use the best of military strategies! I am pretty sure what we are seeing here is two groups who's leaders have gone off the deep end. There is no predicting what they are going to do, and no solid reasoning behind any of their actions.

Gaald wrote:
Gimpy_Butzke wrote:
I just thought it was hilarious that absolutely no one was capable of getting a clean shot off except the first one on Axel. Everyone is so adept at shooting and it took a long time to take out one person without cover in a guard tower. However, the instant there are zombies everyone is back to extreme accuracy.

I just chalk that up to the fact that zombies don't shoot back at you.

Cracked explains Stormtrooper Aim. Basically, humans would rather not shoot at humans, so subconsciously you miss. Zombies are no longer people, you don't have that emotional connection.

Also, shooting someone 2 feet away is not the same as shooting someone 500ft away.

I'm not sure about the Governor taking off after releasing the zombies; he mentions more than once that the prison would make an excellent place to setup a new town. Seems very Bond-villain to turn your back on your enemy when you're so likely to kill him.

An easy fix would be the gunfire noise attracts more walkers, coming out from the woods behind the Governor. He decides he's too exposed, and leaves Rick and his group to their fate rather than take on a walker herd.

Gaald wrote:
Yes, and lunatics with revenge on the mind often use the best of military strategies! I am pretty sure what we are seeing here is two groups who's leaders have gone off the deep end. There is no predicting what they are going to do, and no solid reasoning behind any of their actions.
This is like saying crazy people are crazy, there ain't no reason to it.
Crazy people operate under a flawed set of assumptions and axioms, and this manifests itself in their actions. Saying a character is crazy and then just not explaining anything is lazy as sh*t.
I just want some dialogue that explains why an otherwise calculating man who appears to have a personal interest in the groups destruction breaks from solid strategy and from seeing his own revenge.

CptDomano wrote:
You know, maybe I missed it, but where did the driver of the trojan horse take off to? It seemed like whoever it was crashed through the gates, jumped out, took some pot shots at Maggie(?), and then that was it.

Also it seemed like she had Maggie dead to rights... was weird to take the shots and keep on running.

I thought the whole governor attack scene was poorly executed. You take the fact that all modern day noise is gone the hum of constant cars on roads etc. It would be impossible to drive an old truck even remotely near the prison on a paved road none the less through thicket without people hearing it from miles away. Besides that they manage come out into the open without anyone seeing, getting someone in a tower that is only accessible by getting across the fence, packing an ice cream truck like they are smuggling zombies across the Mexican border, and everyone hides behind object that bullets would cut thru like cheese.

The only redeeming scene is when brothers show up.

boogle wrote:
Gaald wrote:
Yes, and lunatics with revenge on the mind often use the best of military strategies! I am pretty sure what we are seeing here is two groups who's leaders have gone off the deep end. There is no predicting what they are going to do, and no solid reasoning behind any of their actions.
This is like saying crazy people are crazy, there ain't no reason to it.
Crazy people operate under a flawed set of assumptions and axioms, and this manifests itself in their actions. Saying a character is crazy and then just not explaining anything is lazy as sh*t.
I just want some dialogue that explains why an otherwise calculating man who appears to have a personal interest in the groups destruction breaks from solid strategy and from seeing his own revenge.

I guess you are right, but the reasoning behind such actions are often later revealed, for example I am sure the Governor will be confronted by Andrea when he gets back and we'll learn more about his plans. So I am not to worried about it.

As for why he stopped the attack, I like Hobbes's explanation. They had already made a great deal of noise, we did see the governor kill a zombie coming up behind them. So maybe they felt they needed to leave before they got over run by zombies that were attracted by all the noise.

Slytin wrote:
I thought the whole governor attack scene was poorly executed. You take the fact that all modern day noise is gone the hum of constant cars on roads etc. It would be impossible to drive an old truck even remotely near the prison on a paved road none the less through thicket without people hearing it from miles away. Besides that they manage come out into the open without anyone seeing, getting someone in a tower that is only accessible by getting across the fence, packing an ice cream truck like they are smuggling zombies across the Mexican border, and everyone hides behind object that bullets would cut thru like cheese.

The only redeeming scene is when brothers show up.

Standing behind sh*t easily penetrated by bullets for protection is old hat. Doesn't even phase me. The truck thing, I think is the same thing I couldn't care less how loud it realistically might have been.

As for the guy in the tower. Remember, they did make a point of no one being on watch when Glen was trying to convince everyone they should go kill the Governor, and it certainly didn't seem like anyone was doing a very good job of watching out for sh*t after that meeting either. A guy with a bolt cutter could have easily cut through both fences and gotten into the watch tower without anyone noticing. It was well off to the side away from the main entrance where they usually had someone on watch. I could see someone easily sneaking up to the side tower without notice.

Gaald wrote:
I guess you are right, but the reasoning behind such actions are often later revealed, for example I am sure the Governor will be confronted by Andrea when he gets back and we'll learn more about his plans. So I am not to worried about it.
IMAGE(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/6/63795/2278965-op-will-surely-deliver-lets-just-wait_super.jpg)

The main thing I was trying to get across with the lack of accuracy comment was that the group has been shown on many occasions to have good accuracy, even at range, against zombie targets and some human targets. The way that just about everyone was unable to hit anything felt a bit unbelievable to me, especially when the first shot is a kill shot.

At no point did I think any of the characters were in danger during the fight. When I saw how inaccurate everyone was it just made me feel that everyone had a special, "can't die because they're too important," shield. I've felt that way in the show before, but nothing as drastic as this.

I can think of a few ways that would have made the fight feel more authentic to me, but from what I can see it wasn't a big deal to most people.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/YG4ETYD.jpg)

I'm gonna jump on this bandwagon and add that I too thought it absolutely unbelievable that they couldn't hit anyone. I mean, I know they were far away, but come on!! They only got that guy in the tower. Don't tell me they got Axel, but magically spared the rest of the group. It's just... not credible. I'm not asking for realism, but at least make it kinda believable. Just fell flat for me...

Eleima wrote:
I'm gonna jump on this bandwagon and add that I too thought it absolutely unbelievable that they couldn't hit anyone. I mean, I know they were far away, but come on!! They only got that guy in the tower. Don't tell me they got Axel, but magically spared the rest of the group. It's just... not credible. I'm not asking for realism, but at least make it kinda believable. Just fell flat for me...

Add in some red shirts and let them die if they were worried about killing off too many main characters, at least the scene would have played out better. I wonder if they thought it looked fine while shooting the scene and then at editing time realized they had made a mistake.

Its G.I. Joe all over again. AHHHHHHH!

IMAGE(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs27/i/2009/249/d/4/Zombie_Snake_Eyes_by_J5ALl53VRY.jpg)

The inaccuracy of the gunfight was awful. It's one thing for the people firing at targets that are in covered positions. But the amount of bullets sprayed at exposed targets was silly.

I think "suppressing fire, drive in the Trojan Horse, and leave" is a sound tactic. Other than the surprise opening shot, they couldn't hit a damn thing from their positions. Pursuing more aggression at that point would have increased their own exposure to danger, when it's not necessary - they know where the prison is, and have the manpower, they can hit-and-run it over and over again without sticking their heads out too much.

*Legion* wrote:
The inaccuracy of the gunfight was awful. It's one thing for the people firing at targets that are in covered positions. But the amount of bullets sprayed at exposed targets was silly.

I think "suppressing fire, drive in the Trojan Horse, and leave" is a sound tactic. Other than the surprise opening shot, they couldn't hit a damn thing from their positions. Pursuing more aggression at that point would have increased their own exposure to danger, when it's not necessary - they know where the prison is, and have the manpower, they can hit-and-run it over and over again without sticking their heads out too much.

Cool, that is the scenario I though would have worked far better. Get them to keep their heads down and let the walkers get in close to them. It just seems like more tension could have played out and things would have felt more dangerous for the characters.

Sure is a good thing they've got a Cabela's handy to go restock all that assault rifle ammo they've been churning through.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Sure is a good thing they've got a Cabela's handy to go restock all that assault rifle ammo they've been churning through.

If there is anything to nitpick about, it's this. Where is all the ammo coming from! It's endless! At the very least we should be seeing these guys lugging all the ammo around with them.

Gaald wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:
Sure is a good thing they've got a Cabela's handy to go restock all that assault rifle ammo they've been churning through.

If there is anything to nitpick about, it's this. Where is all the ammo coming from! It's endless! At the very least we should be seeing these guys lugging all the ammo around with them.

Gasoline. These people drive f*cking everywhere, and none of their vehicles are known for efficiency.

Gimpy_Butzke wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
The inaccuracy of the gunfight was awful. It's one thing for the people firing at targets that are in covered positions. But the amount of bullets sprayed at exposed targets was silly.

I think "suppressing fire, drive in the Trojan Horse, and leave" is a sound tactic. Other than the surprise opening shot, they couldn't hit a damn thing from their positions. Pursuing more aggression at that point would have increased their own exposure to danger, when it's not necessary - they know where the prison is, and have the manpower, they can hit-and-run it over and over again without sticking their heads out too much.

Cool, that is the scenario I though would have worked far better. Get them to keep their heads down and let the walkers get in close to them. It just seems like more tension could have played out and things would have felt more dangerous for the characters.


It might be possible that the Governor wants to provoke them into attacking Woodbury again, as it would help him regain his control over the townsfolk. Plus it could help him convince Andrea that Rick's group are the real villains if they make a seemingly unprovoked attack. She knows that he's out doing something he doesn't want her to know about, but she still has huge blinders on when it comes to him.

ranalin wrote:
CptDomano wrote:
You know, maybe I missed it, but where did the driver of the trojan horse take off to? It seemed like whoever it was crashed through the gates, jumped out, took some pot shots at Maggie(?), and then that was it.

Also it seemed like she had Maggie dead to rights... was weird to take the shots and keep on running.


IIRC, they ran past Michonne while she was pinned down by someone else (Maggie was initially in the prison, but came out and was up with Carl and Carol). I think the reason they didn't kill Michonne was that they were probably more concerned with getting the hell out of the yard alive than killing anyone. Plus they don't have a surplus of characters they can kill off, what with Tyreese's group being nowhere around.

Is there are more fitting epitaph for T-Dog than a character having to be reminded of his existence? It only would have been funnier if she'd said "Oh yeah, him."

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Is there are more fitting epitaph for T-Dog than a character having to be reminded of his existence? It only would have been funnier if she'd said "Oh yeah, him."

I had the same thought. It almost felt dubbed in after the fact it.

Andrea has become the most useless character for the season. That is all.

I feel the same way. Are we suppoesed to hate her character? I do. Although, it may just be my prejudice of Reptilians.

Gaald wrote:
Andrea has become the most useless character for the season. That is all.
Gaald wrote:
Andrea has become the most useless character for the season. That is all.

So useless she's become DOUBLE useless.

Andrea has become the most useless character for the season. That is all.

Damn the double post!

I'll just leave this right here.

IMAGE(http://static.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/a34affa06170bf3b4dfd9b0cf8bc8666_width_600x1.jpeg?f0f9df)

I think there's more to it with Andrea. I'm not liking her very much right now, and never have been a big fan. But, she's smart, and she's compassionate. I think she believes everything that Rick and Michonne told her about Phillip, and I think she really considered Carol's advice. BUT! She refused to get Rick into Woodbury because she doesn't think they can survive, they're out-numbered, out-gunned and she won't lead them to slaughter. If she killed The Gov in his sleep, she'd have a lot of 'splaining to do. I'm thinking she's going to try another approach, but that she will turn back to her old group. We are totally taking Woodbury peeps! I'd much prefer that over the cold gray prison.

Andrea needs to meet up with Tyreese and Sasha and compare notes. We're gonna need those two on our side. I'm just hoping to see The Gov's own people turn on him.

SillyRabbit wrote:
I think there's more to it with Andrea. I'm not liking her very much right now, and never have been a big fan. But, she's smart, and she's compassionate. I think she believes everything that Rick and Michonne told her about Phillip, and I think she really considered Carol's advice. BUT! She refused to get Rick into Woodbury because she doesn't think they can survive, they're out-numbered, out-gunned and she won't lead them to slaughter. If she killed The Gov in his sleep, she'd have a lot of 'splaining to do. I'm thinking she's going to try another approach, but that she will turn back to her old group. We are totally taking Woodbury peeps! I'd much prefer that over the cold gray prison.

Andrea needs to meet up with Tyreese and Sasha and compare notes. We're gonna need those two on our side. I'm just hoping to see The Gov's own people turn on him.


This is where I am too. I hate the decisions she's making, but I can understand why she's making them. If she killed the Governer, there'd be no way she could get Woodbury to back down. Martinez would just take over, kill her, then lead an attack on the prison.

It was nice to see that at least Sasha picked up on how the Governor changed when he heard they'd been in the prison. Apparently only black women can pick up on the homicidal megalomaniac vibes he's putting out.

BassMadMadoo wrote:
I feel the same way. Are we suppoesed to hate her character? I do. Although, it may just be my prejudice of Reptilians.

What?

You mean like:

IMAGE(http://veja.abril.com.br/blog/temporadas/files/2011/10/V-2.jpg)