Planetside 2 Catch-All

karmajay wrote:
Aetius wrote:
master0 wrote:
Itsatrap wrote:

I don't have a problem with air power being strong. However, I am annoyed that air power is currently the fastest way to gain XP in the game. In contrast, anti-air gives you negligible XP (for the occasional assist against a crappy pilot who doesn't know when to escape).

Yeah pretty much I agree with this. The game is balanced, but how you gain xp is not balanced. Certain roles just make less. It's annoying but it's the price for free sadly.

If it was just imbalanced xp gain, I would be okay with it. At this point, though, anti-air is not only making very little xp, but is actively benefiting the other team in terms of xp - while getting beaten down and overrun by the very thing they are specifically optimized to fight because their weapons are so ineffective. And this is all happening while the AA max is standing next to an engineer who is getting 3-5x his xp for repairing and supplying him with ammo (which I've done as well, it's boring and hammers your K/D but is ridiculously lucrative, especially in a squad).

Well most of the stuff you do gives support xp. People are fixing ground vehicles and MAXs. They are healing and reviving players. They are dropping ammo to replenish bullets fired at you. I just would not worry about that aspect of it.

Yeah don't sweat how fast other people are making xp, hell it's better not to think how fast you are.

Tamren wrote:

Is anyone else highly confused as to why the "Anti Air" bundle contains the lockon anti-tank rocket launcher instead of the one that shoots aircraft?

Also I think I may have found a bug. When the game first came out I would always see three different item bundles on sale in the store. But for the past couple weeks I have only seen one bundle. If I go into the store and search for the word "bundle" it shows a list of all current and previous bundles. And it says that three of them are on sale, the Anti Air bundle, the Gear Starter and the Infantry starter bundles. But on the actual store page it only shows the new one.

Does this happen to you guys too? I really want to get the vehicle bundle but I won't be able to at this rate, even if it comes around on rotation again.

I noticed that about the rocket launcher. Very strange. Also I also only see one bundle, I'll have to look at the other bundles as well. I'm still torn on the anti air bundle. I want the burster and the launcher, but the other two items look meh.

Aetius wrote:

If it was just imbalanced xp gain, I would be okay with it. At this point, though, anti-air is not only making very little xp, but is actively benefiting the other team in terms of xp - while getting beaten down and overrun by the very thing they are specifically optimized to fight because their weapons are so ineffective.

I think you are exaggerating a little. MAXs are not supposed to be the be-all and end all of air defence. Phalanx turrets aren't either. The main benefit is that they are cheap/free and you can find them everywhere. They can chase off aircraft, but not usually kill them. This is a problem with liberators because they just repair and come back until you are all dead. If you want to be safe against air attack you need air superiority.

master0 wrote:

Yeah don't sweat how fast other people are making xp, hell it's better not to think how fast you are.

I fly a scythe because it's fun. I don't worry too much xp a minute. Same when I snipe with my bolt action. It doesn't give much xp and doesn't even benefit my team all that much, but it's fun!

RolandofGilead wrote:

Yes the Solstice SF is the best light assault weapon. Resupplying is still buggy and it has a tendency not to work at very short ranges, but even with all that it's awesome. It makes a great panic weapon. If anyone get the drop on you, switch to the grenade launcher and pray it hits. It gives you slightly better odds then shooting back normally.

I'd rather have my serpent than the SF. It's a stone cold killer at close/medium range.

Tamren wrote:

MAXs are not supposed to be the be-all and end all of air defence. Phalanx turrets aren't either. The main benefit is that they are cheap/free and you can find them everywhere. They can chase off aircraft, but not usually kill them.

As was demonstrated to me yesterday: no, they can't. Not even in 2-3x numbers with turret support. The only aircraft who get killed are fighters who are inexperienced enough to fly straight into the AA. The run that wiped out the air defense was four Liberators who attacked in two pairs, one right after the other. We shot down one, and in the time it took to do that they swept the tower top clear of defenders. The lopsidedness of several Liberators versus ... well, anything on the ground was painfully clear.

This is a problem with liberators because they just repair and come back until you are all dead. If you want to be safe against air attack you need air superiority.

That's the exactly the point - playing AA is low reward, frustrating, and tactically/strategically useless (and, I think now, counter-productive). I'm now flying a Scythe - at least there I have a gun that can actually hurt a Liberator when I unload all my ammo into it.

master0 wrote:

Yeah don't sweat how fast other people are making xp, hell it's better not to think how fast you are.

I fly a scythe because it's fun. I don't worry too much xp a minute. Same when I snipe with my bolt action. It doesn't give much xp and doesn't even benefit my team all that much, but it's fun!

I wanted to play AA - I enjoyed it in Planetside, and also in BF3 (not BF2 - another air dominant game). The problem is, playing AA in PS2 is not fun. It's just frustrating, as well as being very low reward. You fire so much you get hand cramps from holding down the fire buttons, but you hardly ever kill anything, especially if you're only in a small group.

If you find yourself surrounded by AA and too many libs, then someone is gonna have to be brave and mic up, call out and prioritize targets. Also, if they are directly above you, it's too late, regroup. It's very similar to when one is overrun by a bunch of tanks, you can't damage them fast enough. Position is everything because one projects force over distance.

Aetius wrote:

The lopsidedness of several Liberators versus ...

They're pretty deadly in the air as a group as well, so long as they are fully manned. I've gotten several kills from tail-gunning.
The truth is that I think people are going to start/have started coordinating their air efforts. The rules for the ground apply to air as well, don't go by yourself. It's a numbers game (he with the numbers wins); coordination is supposed to be the edge. Which may suck, but can you imagine this game if a typical infantryman could mow down half a squad who was aware of who was shooting them? f*ck if I'd play that.
The only thing rule-wise I can think of is to reduce the problem is limiting the number of libs, or a cost increase might be more prudent. Libs are somewhat hard to kill.

Liberators are not hard at all to destroy with ESFs. Two ESFs with rockets will kill the liberator so fast it won't even have time to turn around. If you have ground flak attacking the liberator as well you might be able to destroy it before it gets a shot off.

EDIT: Anti-air bundle has been fixed so that it correctly contains the anti air lockon rocket launcher instead of the anti vehicle one. Get it while it's hot! The two walker vehicle guns are not especially useful but the burster and rocket launcher are.

Tamren wrote:

Liberators are not hard at all to destroy with ESFs. Two ESFs with rockets will kill the liberator so fast it won't even have time to turn around. If you have ground flak attacking the liberator as well you might be able to destroy it before it gets a shot off.

EDIT: Anti-air bundle has been fixed so that it correctly contains the anti air lockon rocket launcher instead of the anti vehicle one. Get it while it's hot! The two walker vehicle guns are not especially useful but the burster and rocket launcher are.

More tempting now, but I almost never play anything else but light assault and engineer. If the other two items weren't so useless (give me the anti air for a lib damn it).

The liberator's upgraded tailgun is only 250 certs. I would just save up for it. It's not especially important as any ESF pilot worth his salt can easily avoid it.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...

Not sure if this has been posted.

I agree with that guy 100% especially when it comes to K/D. The day they put that in PS1 the game changed drastically. When I got into the tech test, I was disappointed, but not surprised to see it front and center.

Nuean wrote:

I agree with that guy 100% especially when it comes to K/D. The day they put that in PS1 the game changed drastically. When I got into the tech test, I was disappointed, but not surprised to see it front and center.

Yeah that needs to be swapped out with cert points per hour or instead. I also agree with pretty much everything except maybe the extending the cap time. The whole a base point value is based on the people fighting over it sounds awesome. That would actually make the crown interesting among other things. Also never new about the sunderer farming, and that just made me sad.

I said this before and and I'll say it again this game is very far from done. Quite a few of the core mechanics need significant work. It is still playable and fun, but it could definitely be much better.

Interesting, I would like to see Zephyr nerf, it's just plain superior to the Dalton in every way imaginable as far as I can tell.
To the guy who says "my KDR of 1.3 is terrible" I say to you, f*ck you, I'm super excited when my KDR is that high. Infantry AA rockets do need to be faster.
I must not fight a lot at Amp stations cause I don't know what towers he's talking about. I think anyone who wants to spend all their time in a vehicle should be able to do so if they're careful. I want Combined Arms, not King Infantry. A couple of seconds of invulnerability at sundy spawn would be nice. HA's are not the only threats to vehicles, they're just the only ones that can attack vehicles, there is a difference. He's flat out wrong about shields regen'ing too slowly, the point is to drive the enemy into cover and then someone can flank or get up close and decimate them. He does have a point re: cost of non-lethal grenades vs lethal grenades, unless the blast radius is significantly larger, they are pointless if the same cost.

Some nice points there. I never really did expect them to get it right on the first pass.

RolandofGilead wrote:

Interesting, I would like to see Zephyr nerf, it's just plain superior to the Dalton in every way imaginable as far as I can tell.
To the guy who says "my KDR of 1.3 is terrible" I say to you, f*ck you, I'm super excited when my KDR is that high. Infantry AA rockets do need to be faster.
I must not fight a lot at Amp stations cause I don't know what towers he's talking about. I think anyone who wants to spend all their time in a vehicle should be able to do so if they're careful. I want Combined Arms, not King Infantry. A couple of seconds of invulnerability at sundy spawn would be nice. HA's are not the only threats to vehicles, they're just the only ones that can attack vehicles, there is a difference. He's flat out wrong about shields regen'ing too slowly, the point is to drive the enemy into cover and then someone can flank or get up close and decimate them. He does have a point re: cost of non-lethal grenades vs lethal grenades, unless the blast radius is significantly larger, they are pointless if the same cost.

Well there are walls with jump pads which tend to make getting around the base easy, enemy included in that. Some came up with the idea of being able to cap the walls/towers, I'd love that and any other more sub-objectives in a base. Your right about the shields though, it's not too fast, and not too slow so I wouldn't touch them. Vehicles are spammed a bit too quickly in my opinion. And I've only ever seen a nonlethal grenade used once, and it was useless.

BadMojo wrote:

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...

Not sure if this has been posted.

Buzz would know, he only plays the game like 23.5 hours a day. He's part of the drinking game I play while playing PS2. Killing Buzz nets me two drinks.

I'm not a fan of Buzz. But, I did agree with many of his points.

I fear that Planetside 1 may have been a lucky stroke of genius and that the later updates to Planetside 1 and the attempts to streamline Planetside 2 are not building on the sandbox, but trying to create a different game.

I'm still irritated that the developers strayed from their "no one shot one kill" and "no indirect fire" edicts of the original game.

I do enjoy running with my outfit and killing lots of bad dudes. I just don't know how long I can keep playing a giant game of PvP instead of a giant game of moving a map.

BadMojo wrote:

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...

Not sure if this has been posted.

That is a great post! Nice to have someone getting down and dirty with the issues. I really don't play enough to have a sense as to WHY a lot of my play sessions aren't fun (and I think partly I'm just bad), but to have him point out the uselessness of defending, the emphasis on farming, etc.

My biggest PS2 gripe, though: it doesn't make good use of my time. I spend much of my time (and I've got maybe 30 minutes every couple of nights to dedicate to PS2) trying to find a good fight. It feels like I'm either entering a lopsided battle, or one that's just about to finish by the time I arrive. And when the battle is finished, there is no clear way of knowing where to go next. So even if I've just finished up a really fun 10 minute attack on Tech Plant, there's that gnawing worry that the rest of my play time will be spent meandering.

When GWJers are playing, though, it's much more fun. Wish there was an easier way to join your squads other than using Vent. I'm still not very comfortable using voice chat...

So I'll keep playing, but I'm definitely not as hot on it as I was initially.

As I understand it, if you are in an outfit, you can filter the social screen to show outfit groups that are not full. That way you can join outfit squads quickly. That's what I do with my outfit.

I also find that running in an organized outfit that's large helps make sure you are where the fight is.

BadMojo wrote:

As I understand it, if you are in an outfit, you can filter the social screen to show outfit groups that are not full. That way you can join outfit squads quickly. That's what I do with my outfit.

I also find that running in an organized outfit that's large helps make sure you are where the fight is.

Yeah! I recently joined the GWJ Outfit, so hopefully that'll make the GWJ Squad show up when I "filter by friends". Prior to joining the Outift it would never show the Squad my friends were in - I'm guessing because it was private? Hence why I had to jump on Vent and plead and beg to be added (jk).

BadMojo wrote:

I'm not a fan of Buzz. But, I did agree with many of his points.

This is my feeling as well. I don't care much for Buzz as a person, but he has a lot of in-game experience, and I think he's completely correct about the effect the K/D ratios have on the game. Sure, tracking kills competitively is one way to incentivize combat, but that makes it susceptible to the "pay to win" problem--the high-kill weapons are almost universally locked behind the pay wall.

I don't even think kills should grant xp.

I think at the point you remove kill xp, you probably have to rework the whole reward and character advancement system, which I doubt they would do outside of a major rework of the whole game or expansion.

BadMojo wrote:

I don't even think kills should grant xp.

Now that would be really bold. Although that would make any engagement outside of a base sort of useless. Skirmishing would also be pointless. I'd just love to see how the game would change with that.

Edit: Oh I don't think they'd do it, it just be real interesting to see if they did. I really wish the beta was longer and they had some time to do a few crazy experiments. Turn off xp for kills, make cap times crazy long or short, etc

See what happens and take the best bits. The beta seemed rushed at the end, and it felt like they really needed to get it out the door no matter what. Meaning we are probable not going to see anything but bug fixes for a while.

If they make those flying air craft carriers a reality I'll forgive them for pretty much anything though.

I distinctly remember reading the patch notes and seeing that they removed dumb-fire from all lockon rocket launchers. Supposedly this would stop you from firing the launcher until you get full missile lock. Except now I own both of them and that's not true at all. I can fire the rocket whenever I want, lockon or no lockon. The only real difference is that the rocket is much slower and has more of an arc. But that doesn't really matter much if you are just shotgunning the rocket at point blank range.

master0 wrote:

If they make those flying air craft carriers a reality I'll forgive them for pretty much anything though.

Here's a thought: what if you only got XP for kills while on defense?

Itsatrap wrote:

Here's a thought: what if you only got XP for kills while on defense?

I think that could work if they lowered the points for kills a lot and upgraded the values for base captures massively. The more I think about it the more ideas come to mind. I really hope someone makes a low res version of this so some crazy experimentation could occur. Not likely though.

Another thing I'd love is if the territory control was a bit more dynamic. Say deploying a sunderer starts pushing your color on the map. That way we could see clear battle lines and such. I'd love to be able to look at the map and actually know what's going. Right now it's a bit more guessing unless a real big battle is happening.

Also doing crazy thing with supply would be cool. Say you can't change classes or get vehicles if you are cutoff. Or you can't rearm and you spawn timer doubles or triples. That would add a whole lot more strategy to the game. Couple that with the dynamic territory control and you'd have something great.

PS1 had logistics in a way. Base's ran off a battery and you had to charge it with these vehicles called ANTs. It was basically a tiny Volkswagen beetle with solar panels on it that acted like a fuel truck. You charge up the battery at any warpgate and discharge it by a special collector. Every base had one, if it ran out of charge the base would lose power to everything. This put sieges on a timer because you could literally starve out the defenders. It also made galaxy hotdrops more valuable because back then they could carry light vehicles (including ANTs).

Tamren wrote:

PS1 had logistics in a way. Base's ran off a battery and you had to charge it with these vehicles called ANTs. It was basically a tiny Volkswagen beetle with solar panels on it that acted like a fuel truck. You charge up the battery at any warpgate and discharge it by a special collector. Every base had one, if it ran out of charge the base would lose power to everything. This put sieges on a timer because you could literally starve out the defenders. It also made galaxy hotdrops more valuable because back then they could carry light vehicles (including ANTs).

Yeah from everything I've read about ps1 it definitely seem to have more depth. While ps2 seems to be a lot easier to play and have less issues and free. Ps2 still seems to have a nonexistent metagame. I have never once had to care about supplies, influence, or battle lines. It has decent tactical thinking but not much else.

Makes me curious about the next big update or any expansion they are doing. I'd hope they would add interesting things like above, but I have a sneaking suspicion they just add way more stuff that will look cool, but won't change the overall dynamic of the game.

The two things I have heard about, navel combat and flying air craft carriers, sound really cool but don't change the game that much.

I can think of a few ways to mix things up. Esamir is pretty flat and boring right now compared to Indar. But they could add something like VERY powerful wind that constantly blows and changes direction. Powerful enough that it blows projectiles off course and nothing smaller than a galaxy can fly.

EDIT: I got a friend request from someone named KrennVonSalzburge. Is that one of you guys?