Wii U Catch-All

Or E3 2010 which prompted this Penny-Arcade comic. Nintendo, bitches. Indeed.

Looking at that comic now, I find you could probably make a fascinating study of the people that can read that, nod and smile because it all lived up to expectations (me), and people that became convinced it was all a let down (f*cking everyone judging by the Internet).

I imagine Nintendo is worried of another 3DS scenario myself. As I stated, I was in line at a Best Buy Black Friday (well, Thanksgiving before midnight) and they were starting to hand out tickets to purchase a Wii-U. I was the only person interested. Maybe it doesn't help that they weren't selling the Wii-U's on sale, but I imagine when something is in high enough demand, the opportunity to buy it is enough.

They expected the 3DS to fly off the shelves, and it didn't. The Wii-U flew off the shelves first shipment, and after that cooled considerably. Could they be trying to meet those sales expectations desperately?

ccesarano wrote:
Or E3 2010 which prompted this Penny-Arcade comic. Nintendo, bitches. Indeed.

Looking at that comic now, I find you could probably make a fascinating study of the people that can read that, nod and smile because it all lived up to expectations (me), and people that became convinced it was all a let down (f*cking everyone judging by the Internet).

I imagine Nintendo is worried of another 3DS scenario myself. As I stated, I was in line at a Best Buy Black Friday (well, Thanksgiving before midnight) and they were starting to hand out tickets to purchase a Wii-U. I was the only person interested. Maybe it doesn't help that they weren't selling the Wii-U's on sale, but I imagine when something is in high enough demand, the opportunity to buy it is enough.

They expected the 3DS to fly off the shelves, and it didn't. The Wii-U flew off the shelves first shipment, and after that cooled considerably. Could they be trying to meet those sales expectations desperately?

I think they are. They have more modest expectations for the Wii U, only 5,000,000 sold by April, which is fewer than the original Wii sold. I'm glad Nintendo is being so proactive with trying to get people to buy the system. Another thing that has been missed from yesterday is that they said due to the longer time needed to develop Wii U games and the increased costs, they'll be partnering more with 3rd parties to work on titles together. They have done that some in the past and I've always enjoyed it. I'm hoping we can get another Sega/AV partnership for a new F-Zero.

Ulairi wrote:

no one seems to complain that if I buy a game for an iPhone a lot of time I have to pay another time for the iPad.

Oh, there has definitely been plenty of complaining. Guess it all depends on what sites you visit, threads you read, people you follow etc.

Ulairi wrote:

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/0...

Someone needs to tell chris kholer what vaporware actually means.

Chris Kohler's being pompous, cynical douche. Yep, sun definitely rose today. There was a discussion on the most recent Bombcast about Yelp reviewers, how high and mighty they come off and how they revel in creatively taking the piss out of things because they can. The parallels that's beginning to show with the "enthusiast" press is getting scary.

As many others said, I'm stoked and am more happy than ever that I got a Wii U for Christmas. If the enthusiast press would rather focus on the latest mobile app fad instead of Nintendo, that's too bad for them because it looks like they'll be missing out on some great fun. My girlfriend who basically doesn't play games loved Kirby's Epic Yarn and was super excited to hear about the Yoshi one. That says a ton right there.

Ulairi wrote:

I think they are. They have more modest expectations for the Wii U, only 5,000,000 sold by April, which is fewer than the original Wii sold. I'm glad Nintendo is being so proactive with trying to get people to buy the system. Another thing that has been missed from yesterday is that they said due to the longer time needed to develop Wii U games and the increased costs, they'll be partnering more with 3rd parties to work on titles together. They have done that some in the past and I've always enjoyed it. I'm hoping we can get another Sega/AV partnership for a new F-Zero.

Oh man, oh maaaaaan, that F-Zero game was so incredibly stupid hard but also so good! I so want another game like that for the Wii U...

As long as they get someone that can actually develop a true-blue Star Fox game instead of nabbing Namco Bandai to make another game like Assault...

...Assault was the GameCube one, right? Wait, which was the DS one? I can't even remember!

I don't find the VC charge all that defensible coming from the stance of a PC gamer. I've had my games, and managed to keep them playable on my new systems for years. I can play (originally) Windows 95 games via steam (or not) on Windows 7 64-bit, and I only paid for it once, when I had Windows XP x86. And in some cases, I can play it on Mac and Linux for no extra charge, too. And I can sign in to Steam anywhere and play, and I can get saves for a lot of my (usually newer) games.

It's doable and viable from a business standpoint, but for whatever reason the console guys just want to squeeze some more cash out of people, which alienates people who know better from playing on the PC, like me. I hope they do what they did with the Wii Internet browser and refund everyone eventually, but I don't see that happening this time. Then again, I don't have a WiiU yet, and I can keep the Wii hooked up when I do get one, so I don't have to pay more for something I felt overcharged for in the first place.

/internet rant

Oh, and about the fact (hard to say it's an opinion in my view) that the press hates Nintendo: Hence Nintendo Direct so they get to say screw you to the people that have told them time and again that whatever they do, it will be hated. Nintendo Direct is probably the best thing they could have done. I hope it continues to grow.

You all post too much. I only read some of it. That feels weird saying that in a Nintendo thread.

Ulairi wrote:

Another thing that has been missed from yesterday is that they said due to the longer time needed to develop Wii U games and the increased costs, they'll be partnering more with 3rd parties to work on titles together. They have done that some in the past and I've always enjoyed it. I'm hoping we can get another Sega/AV partnership for a new F-Zero.

It would be nice to see what could come out of them partnering with a few western developers in this manner. Working with Retro brought us the wonderful Metroid Prime. Working with Silicon Knights brought us Eternal Darkness. I'd love to see what other western developers partnering with Nintendo influence could do.

Honestly, THQ just had a fire sale. It would have been intriguing to see what a couple of those studios could have done under Nintendo's influence. That would have been a bold move. Could you imagine if Nintendo owned a AAA open world developer like Volition?

Nintendo buys Darksiders and Vigil to make Wii U exclusive games. Think about it.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Nintendo buys Darksiders and Vigil to make Wii U exclusive games. Think about it.

I pondered the possibility of Nintendo seeing what Vigil would do with the Legend of Zelda license, but at the same time, that's such a big property that it would be riskier than any of their other outsourced franchises.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure at this point Vigil is no more. Which is a damn shame because, come on, Epic basically reformed Big Huge Games after Kingdoms of Amalur fell apart. Can't we at least get something like that with Vigil?

Vigil can apparently still be sold and they could recall the team if that happens soon but yeah, THQ doesn't have the money to keep paying them to wait until then. It's pretty grim but there's a sliver of hope as I understand it.

With the launch of the first Wii-U Virtual Console game, have they announced the end of new Wii Virtual Console releases? I'm looking at what to spend my remaining Wii points on and found that two of the titles I had been holding out hope for have never materialized. (Guardian Legend and Crystalis) If games are still trickling out, I'll continue to patiently wait and see. If they're done, I need to see what, if anything, I want to spend my points on.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Vigil can apparently still be sold and they could recall the team if that happens soon but yeah, THQ doesn't have the money to keep paying them to wait until then. It's pretty grim but there's a sliver of hope as I understand it.

I honestly don't know if I was more surprised that no one bought Vigil, or that MS didn't swoop in with 25 million and buy Volition and Saints Row to make them Nextbox exclusive before destroying their studio a couple years from now.

ccesarano wrote:

They expected the 3DS to fly off the shelves, and it didn't. The Wii-U flew off the shelves first shipment, and after that cooled considerably. Could they be trying to meet those sales expectations desperately?

I think the Wii-U faces the same problem the Dreamcast did, in that it's playing catch up to a rather great extent. I'm not going to throw out baseless predictions, I haven't even played a Wii-U yet, but from a market perspective the system is in a precarious situation, one that Nintendo hasn't really put themselves in before. It's not cheap like the Wii was, and is more expensive than the current competition, so for once Nintendo is not the impulse buy option. Everything on it that isn't a Nintendo franchise is also on 360 or PS3, so there's nothing to convince owners of those systems to buy one. There's more, but I'm not feeling very articulate, and I think those two are the biggest points.

It's an impressive system no doubt, but all these factors beg the question: Why should owners of a 360/PS3 buy a Wii-U when the next Xbox and PlayStation are looming on the horizon? And considering the Wii-U was designed to be the system to attract those buyers, that's a pretty bad question for them to be asking.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I think the Wii-U faces the same problem the Dreamcast did, in that it's playing catch up to a rather great extent.

Difference here is that Nintendo didn't hype up a super duper addon and then drop support for it right when it got going like the 32X.

I used to work at Software Etc. when these things were new and that was the vibe I got with the Dreamcast. People didn't trust Sega anymore.

I think the WiiU needs some Bang-Zoom game that totally takes advantage of the new features and hardware to finally shut these people up.

PRG013 wrote:

I think the WiiU needs some Bang-Zoom game that totally takes advantage of the new features and hardware to finally shut these people up.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were having a mature discussion. I didn't come in here saying "lol, teh Wii U sux", but apparently my opinion isn't wanted at all.

The Gamecube and N64 were damned precarious >_>

ahrezmendi wrote:

Why should owners of a 360/PS3 buy a Wii-U when the next Xbox and PlayStation are looming on the horizon? And considering the Wii-U was designed to be the system to attract those buyers, that's a pretty bad question for them to be asking.

I think the reason is that it provides an experience that is not currently, and not likely to become, available on the other systems. Look at Aliens: Colonial Marines for example. We will have 4 options for buying the game: PC, 360, PS3 and WiiU. If you get it on the PS3, you have free multiplayer, but not much in the way of a Friend's list. If you get it on the 360, you have to pay to play multiplayer, but the friend's list is fully featured. If you get it on the PC you have the usual potential hardware differences, but the ability for the game to be a lot prettier than the first two options, and a multiplayer that is free and mostly well-featured. If you get the WiiU, you get an in-hand motion sensor, prettier (or at least capable of being prettier) graphics than the other two console versions, free multiplayer with what looks like no-frills on-line options.

We can pretty safely assume that going forward, new versions of the Playstation or Xbox will either not have as complete an implementation of the GamePad, or will not have it at all. Will they surpass the WiiU in graphical fidelity? It seems likely; but will they actually bring anything new to the environment, or will they basically be "simple" computers that connect to the TV? Nintendo has, by far, the most compelling exclusive titles, and they offer something unique. That is why people should be looking at a WiiU instead of a PS4 or Xbox^x.

ahrezmendi wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

They expected the 3DS to fly off the shelves, and it didn't. The Wii-U flew off the shelves first shipment, and after that cooled considerably. Could they be trying to meet those sales expectations desperately?

I think the Wii-U faces the same problem the Dreamcast did, in that it's playing catch up to a rather great extent. I'm not going to throw out baseless predictions, I haven't even played a Wii-U yet, but from a market perspective the system is in a precarious situation, one that Nintendo hasn't really put themselves in before. It's not cheap like the Wii was, and is more expensive than the current competition, so for once Nintendo is not the impulse buy option. Everything on it that isn't a Nintendo franchise is also on 360 or PS3, so there's nothing to convince owners of those systems to buy one. There's more, but I'm not feeling very articulate, and I think those two are the biggest points.

It's an impressive system no doubt, but all these factors beg the question: Why should owners of a 360/PS3 buy a Wii-U when the next Xbox and PlayStation are looming on the horizon? And considering the Wii-U was designed to be the system to attract those buyers, that's a pretty bad question for them to be asking.

I think you're missing some of the point. No one ever says about the Xbox 360 or PS3 "Every third party game is already on the WiiU and the Xbox doesn't have any Nintendo games". I don't think they're really going after the Xbox 360 and PS3 audience. They're going after the Wii audience. 100,000,000 people own a Wii. If they can get half of them to buy a Wii U and get 10,000,000 of the people who bought a Xbox 360 or PS3, they've sold just as many systems as the Xbox 360 and PS3. (not combined) The biggest driver for owning a Nintendo system is Nintendo games. If you don't like Nintendo games you really shouldn't own a Nintendo platform, I feel.

I learned from Polygon today that EVERY game announcement is just like Kickstarter. Wow! Great journalism!

Blind_Evil wrote:

The Gamecube and N64 were damned precarious >_>

I have to assume that >_> means you are joking?

Nintendo never sold things at a loss and was still rolling in piles and piles of money the whole time. Company never in danger of becoming like Sega (software only).

EDIT: Yes, thanks urban dictionary

No, not kidding at all. They took the Wii in such a radical direction because they couldn't afford to sell fewer than 30 million units again. They were relying on that plentiful Pokemon money, but it isn't healthy to have a bunch of dead weight dragging a company down (hi Sony phones).

Ulairi wrote:

I learned from Polygon today that EVERY game announcement is just like Kickstarter. Wow! Great journalism!

Press Reset.

Blind_Evil - True, I retract the bits about them never being in a precarious position before.

Atras - Absolutely, and I'm very interested to see what gets done with the gamepad. Things like that will get your early adopters, people who own every Nintendo system, or players like those who frequent this forum. You need more than that for widespread adoption though, especially when your price point is $300 and up. I'm not saying Nintendo or some 3rd parties won't prove what you can do with the gamepad, but it's going to be important.

Ulairi - Uh, are you sure about that? Nintendo has said on multiple occasions that one of their big goals for the Wii U was to recapture the audience they lost with the Wii. The price point alone guarantees they are going to have a hard time getting to that 100m number again, so I completely disagree that they are only targeting the hardcore Nintendo fans and Wii owners.

Let me clarify my position - I am NOT saying the Wii U is bad, or that it won't do well. I'm here to have an interesting discussion about the system, enjoy a bit of speculation about how it may do in the coming market, and whether or not Nintendo is taking a big risk with it. I think they are taking a very big risk with it, not by its design or the features it offers, but by the market they are launching it in and the price point they are launching it at. Consumers like all of us at this site are NOT the average buyer, so you can't judge based on how people here respond to it.

Let me put it another way: There's a reason the classic 2x2 marketing grid exists, and a reason why 1 of the boxes is considered a dead zone, and the other impossible to achieve. Nintendo has already put themselves outside of the low price, high customer base box, so which box are they aiming for? Are they trying to achieve the impossible that Apple managed, to put themselves in the high price high customer base box? Are they playing it safe with high price, low customer base? That's the interesting part here, because Nintendo has taken a drastic shift away from the box the Wii was in, and it's really hard to tell if it'll pay off.

I'm curious to see how high the Wii U's price looks when stacked up against the next Xbox and PlayStation.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm curious to see how high the Wii U's price looks when stacked up against the next Xbox and PlayStation.

As am I, because I want the price to drop. Not because I think it's too high, I'm just selfish and broke.

But I think it'll end up looking low and there won't be a need for the drop.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm curious to see how high the Wii U's price looks when stacked up against the next Xbox and PlayStation.

I could be completely wrong but I expect the tech to be much more expensive in the next xbox and playstation. I'm thinking $399-$499

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm curious to see how high the Wii U's price looks when stacked up against the next Xbox and PlayStation.

This occurred to me during my workout. Perhaps Nintendo's plan is to just sit tight until the Wii U becomes the cheapest on the market by virtue of the competition being more expensive? That would be an interesting strategy if it were the case. However, we have evidence in the 3DS that Nintendo will react to consumers saying the price is too high. They could have waited for the Vita to come out and make the 3DS look cheaper by comparison, but they didn't.

As it stands right now, Nintendo has put the Wii U squarely in the high price, low customer base square of the grid, and obviously they don't want to remain there. I don't think Nintendo is going to wait for the new systems from Microsoft or Sony, they've proven themselves to not be reactionary like that. I'm not convinced they'll drop the price, but they need to do something. Wii U sales since launch are 638k in Japan, 425k in the US (source). IGN may think that's pretty good, but the Xbox 360 sold 1.4m in December alone (source). I can think of another recent console release that had similar numbers, and as much as I love said console it's not doing too well.

I'm still going to buy a Wii U, 'cause I'm that kind of gamer. I want SMT X Fire Emblem, Wind Waker HD, Bayonetta 2, and a few more. As I said before though, I'm not the average consumer, so I can't gauge the systems success or failure on my own purchases.

As it stands right now, Nintendo has put the Wii U squarely in the high price, low customer base square of the grid, and obviously they don't want to remain there. I don't think Nintendo is going to wait for the new systems from Microsoft or Sony, they've proven themselves to not be reactionary like that. I'm not convinced they'll drop the price, but they need to do something. Wii U sales since launch are 638k in Japan, 425k in the US (source). IGN may think that's pretty good, but the Xbox 360 sold 1.4m in December alone (source). I can think of another recent console release that had similar numbers, and as much as I love said console it's not doing too well.

I think trying to draw a picture between the Xbox 360 and the Wii U from December 2012 and then linking the Wii U to the Vita isn't a very apt thing to do. Usually a consoles first Christmas isn't its high point. While hte Xbox 360 is having an unprecedented "end of life" with its sales, it will never catch even the Wii's life time sales. Nintendo may say a lot of things but they're trying to get the Wii audience to upgrade. They have lower expectations (5 Million by April) it's a big reason why so much of their message has been "Hey, all of the Wii stuff you bought? It still works. Just upgrade the box" Actions on this I think speak louder than their words.

Fair enough, the 360 -> Wii U comparison is spanning multiple epochs. I do think the Vita -> Wii U comparison is apt though. They're both consoles launching in a market with already established competition, they both launched at the highest price point in their markets, and they're both trying to catch multiple consumer bases.

I don't disagree that Nintendo wants Wii owners to upgrade, but that doesn't mean what they said before is not longer applicable. I also said that actions speak louder than words, which is why I don't expect Nintendo to just wait around for Sony/Microsoft to do their thing, I expect them to be proactive about lagging Wii U sales. To put it simply, I think Nintendo is going to do with the Wii U what Sony should do (but won't) for the Vita.