Wii U Catch-All

Gumbie wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
cube wrote:

Ulari, Mario Kart 7 came out in 2011.

That is on the 3DS. The prior one came out on the Wii and the prior to the DS. I don't think we'll see another Mario Kart on the 3DS. is what i meant.

Also the last 3d Mario will be 3 years ago this May.

November 2011.

Let's just make this clear: cube is including 3DS games.

That's fine but I thought we were talking about consoles...

We weren't, we were talking about Nintendo's development cycles and when you can predict a game will come out.

The Galaxy team worked on Mario 3D Land so it's definitely relevant for predicting when their next game will come out.

I'm excited. I don't see anything I shouldn't be excited about. [shrug]

Demyx wrote:
McIrishJihad wrote:

Is this how you two keep in touch during the day? Bantering back and forth in the WiiU thread over Nintendo rumors ;)

50% this, 40% weird analogies, 10% arguing over Netrunner

This is off topic (kind of) what platform are you playing Epic Mickey 2 on? The 3DS or WiiU? What do you think about it?

Blind_Evil wrote:

Talk junk about that game at your own peril.

The camera was annoying.

(Since I've already got Minarchist ready to strangle me, what's one more person?)

I love how this thread is just exploding with posts today! Makes me happy!

Um, so how about those third party games, eh? Pretty cool, right?

shoptroll wrote:

The camera was annoying.

Ya know, I've completed that game twice now, and I don't understand the complaints about the camera. As with Mario Galaxy 2, the camera was never, ever in my way. I can't say that about any other 3D platformer I've played.

Ulairi wrote:

This is off topic (kind of) what platform are you playing Epic Mickey 2 on? The 3DS or WiiU? What do you think about it?

Not so off topic since I was playing on the WiiU and posted my thoughts here: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/1...

I haven't really played much since then.

The 3DS version I started and then threw forcefully at the wall. Well, okay, I only threw it in my head. It's just a bad game, I couldn't finish. I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm excited. I don't see anything I shouldn't be excited about. [shrug]

I'm pretty sure there will be at least one two week period where no first-party or good third party games come out for the WiiU. Why can't Nintendo get games on their systems?!?!? [Anger]! In all honesty, I am not sure that it is fair to charge for Virtual Console games that you own so that you can have them one menu faster. I guess having the VC accessible on the GamePad makes it worth a small fee - and if we can eventually play multiplayer VC games on two GamePads, that would be amazing.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

Really? I think it looks like it could be fun. Of course, I am a Skylanders consumer whore and a Disney fan.

I thought the charge for transfer thing was kind of BS too. There is at least incentive to do so, as you said, but I think it sucks they're charging.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

No, because that falls squarely into the realm of "thing that doesn't interest me." Same way I ignore all their tween pop stars and most of their live action movie offerings.

Epic Mickey for 3DS should have been fun, like the old Castle of Illusion games. The spriting is lovely. Alas, it is extremely boring and poorly designed.

Epic Mickey 2 for WiiU is... somewhat fun, but ultimately disappointing.

I can see where people are upset about being charged to upgrade their Wii VC games to Wii U VC games, but I don't mind it. If I can use a mobile gaming metaphor, it's a bit like paying to upgrade an iPhone game to an iPad one: I appreciate when an app is Universal, but I don't mind paying a little extra for the fancier version. The Wii U Virtual Console is getting enough new bells and whistles that I'll pay a few dollars to upgrade the VC games I have in my collection.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can see where people are upset about being charged to upgrade their Wii VC games to Wii U VC games, but I don't mind it. If I can use a mobile gaming metaphor, it's a bit like paying to upgrade an iPhone game to an iPad one: I appreciate when an app is Universal, but I don't mind paying a little extra for the fancier version. The Wii U Virtual Console is getting enough new bells and whistles that I'll pay a few dollars to upgrade the VC games I have in my collection.

It's still a better deal than PSP -> Vita conversion.

Atras wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm excited. I don't see anything I shouldn't be excited about. [shrug]

I'm pretty sure there will be at least one two week period where no first-party or good third party games come out for the WiiU. Why can't Nintendo get games on their systems?!?!? [Anger]! In all honesty, I am not sure that it is fair to charge for Virtual Console games that you own so that you can have them one menu faster. I guess having the VC accessible on the GamePad makes it worth a small fee - and if we can eventually play multiplayer VC games on two GamePads, that would be amazing.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

Really? I think it looks like it could be fun. Of course, I am a Skylanders consumer whore and a Disney fan.

Your old VC games will still work. I think a $1 or $1.50 isn't a bad upgrade charge and like others said, people are okay with it on their apps but I'm sure the games press will conviently ignore that when bitching about how Nintendo is doomed and they should be more like Apple.

shoptroll wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can see where people are upset about being charged to upgrade their Wii VC games to Wii U VC games, but I don't mind it. If I can use a mobile gaming metaphor, it's a bit like paying to upgrade an iPhone game to an iPad one: I appreciate when an app is Universal, but I don't mind paying a little extra for the fancier version. The Wii U Virtual Console is getting enough new bells and whistles that I'll pay a few dollars to upgrade the VC games I have in my collection.

It's still a better deal than PSP -> Vita conversion.

To clarify shoptroll, and to make sure nobody gets their hopes up, there isn't one for PSP->Vita.

Ulairi wrote:

Your old VC games will still work. I think a $1 or $1.50 isn't a bad upgrade charge and like others said, people are okay with it on their apps but I'm sure the games press will conveniently ignore that when bitching about how Nintendo is doomed and they should be more like Apple.

The fact that they will still work is not really something to be grateful for, it should be a given. If they give us a VC channel on the WiiU that works with the old VC games, but also allows for an upgraded version (and 1-2 dollars isn't bad), then I am 100% happy with this solution. If I still have to go through the Wii Channel for my old VC games, then I am like 95% happy, I can deal with it.

Of course the games "press" will complain about it - that is what their whole job is these days.

I've been reading everyone's tweets via my phone. Holy crap I can't be more excited for this year and the announcements at E3.

This unfortunately means I need to start budgeting a WiiU sooner than I'd like... but it will be worth it because of all the things. College, why do you make me so broke?!

Can I just throw my money at them for Yoshi's Epic Yarn right now? I want that so badly. And a Yoshi made of yarn that I can hug.

Dominic Knight wrote:

Can I just throw my money at them for Yoshi's Epic Yarn right now? I want that so badly. And a Yoshi made of yarn that I can hug.

Yeah. That game was the moment for me when I realized I was getting a Wii U. I thought I could ignore the system. Maybe I still can. But that game... *sigh*. I loved Kirby's Epic Yarn and I'd like to play it again. Owning a system that could play that AND Yoshi's Epic Yarn would be beautiful. They made me crack.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

I can't wait for Kingdom Hearts: Star Wars .

DSGamer wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

I can't wait for Kingdom Hearts: Star Wars .

ObiWanKenobi wrote:

Use the Keyblade, Luke!

cube wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

It's still a better deal than PSP -> Vita conversion.

To clarify shoptroll, and to make sure nobody gets their hopes up, there isn't one for PSP->Vita.

This isn't a correct comparison though. The upgrade system Sony offered in Japan was for converting physical UMDs to PSN digital purchases. Wii -> Wii U VC purchases are purely digital to digital, hence Clockwork's comparison being a correct one.

The digital PSP -> Vita process is the best one, because there's no upgrade required. If you bought a PSP game off PSN, it works on PSP and Vita, it's that simple.

DSGamer wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I don't like it when Disney hurts me.

Did your head explode at the Infinity reveal?

I can't wait for Kingdom Hearts: Star Wars .

la la la I'm not listening

But I totally second the need for a real-life yarn Yoshi to hug.

ahrezmendi wrote:

The digital PSP -> Vita process is the best one, because there's no upgrade required. If you bought a PSP game off PSN, it works on PSP and Vita, it's that simple.

Ah, I was confused then. My bad

ClockworkHouse wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

The camera was annoying.

Ya know, I've completed that game twice now, and I don't understand the complaints about the camera. As with Mario Galaxy 2, the camera was never, ever in my way. I can't say that about any other 3D platformer I've played.

Same. I still don't understand the camera complaints for that game

Those Yoshi shots are beautiful. I loved Kirby's Epic Yarn, so definitely excited to see what they come up with for this one.

Dyni wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

The camera was annoying.

Ya know, I've completed that game twice now, and I don't understand the complaints about the camera. As with Mario Galaxy 2, the camera was never, ever in my way. I can't say that about any other 3D platformer I've played.

Same. I still don't understand the camera complaints for that game

My complaint was that the camera seemed artificially placed in bad spots to make the game more difficult. In the end I thought 3D Land was ok. But I would have been much happier with a fully 3D game where the camera followed Mario. 3D Land's camera felt like a cheat or a gimmick to me.

DSGamer wrote:
Dyni wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

The camera was annoying.

Ya know, I've completed that game twice now, and I don't understand the complaints about the camera. As with Mario Galaxy 2, the camera was never, ever in my way. I can't say that about any other 3D platformer I've played.

Same. I still don't understand the camera complaints for that game

My complaint was that the camera seemed artificially placed in bad spots to make the game more difficult. In the end I thought 3D Land was ok. But I would have been much happier with a fully 3D game where the camera followed Mario. 3D Land's camera felt like a cheat or a gimmick to me.

Ok, I understand that complaint, I just think it misses the point of the game design. The way the camera is placed creates many of the brilliant platforming moments in the game. They designed the levels around the camera system. It was different from the 2D Marios, and different from the other 3D Marios, which, while brilliant games in their own right, can have major camera issues of their own. 3D Land remains the best 3DS game by a significant margin, in my book. Ok, I'll stop blabbing about a 3DS game in the Wii U thread now

Ulairi wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/0...

Someone needs to tell chris kholer what vaporware actually means.

I don't even. This is terrible reporting.

It 's just an other example that Nintendo is damned if they do and damned if they don't by the enthusiast press. They cannot win with them so they shouldn't even try.

While I don't think calling the announcements "vaporware" is at all justified (because seriously, that's all E3 is according to the article's logic which he acknowledges in the comments), I think there's a small point in saying "hey, this is Nintendo making a big splashy news brief outside of the normal news cycle, something's up", especially this soon after the Q1 lineup announcement and (I think) close to their upcoming earnings report. Then again, earlier this month all anyone could talk about was "where are the games? where are the updates? where's the virtual console?" and now we have answers on that. So I dunno. For what it's worth, Kohler knows Nintendo fairly well haven written about them extensively in the past and knows how they operate. Really weird to see him this negative.

Linkbait headline is linkbait headline, and Game|Life should be (and usually is) above that.

On the flipside, the writeup at Ars was a lot more neutral than I thought. Not a lot of commentary there which was surprising given the headline. PAR was also strictly just the facts.

EDIT: Actually, possible Kohler was grumpy about the Mother 2 VC based on his Twitter stream.

shoptroll wrote:

While I don't think calling the announcements "vaporware" is at all justified (because seriously, that's all E3 is according to the article's logic which he acknowledges in the comments), I think there's a small point in saying "hey, this is Nintendo making a big splashy news brief outside of the normal news cycle, something's up", especially this soon after the Q1 lineup announcement and (I think) close to their upcoming earnings report.

I think Nintendo's experimenting more with their advertising. They're going direct to the consumers with the Nintendo Direct presentations(every 2 months, with smaller ones for big announcements). It's looking more and more like they've accepted that the games journalism community as a whole doesn't care for them, so they're just going direct to the core gamers.

So does anyone else get a weird "instant game collection" / steam sale vibe from the NES 30 promotion they're doing? Also, it's cute how all the games (sans Punch-Out!!) in that promotion are the basis for an attraction in NintendoLand.

And now for a wall of text (sorry!):

cube wrote:

I think Nintendo's experimenting more with their advertising. They're going direct to the consumers with the Nintendo Direct presentations(every 2 months, with smaller ones for big announcements). It's looking more and more like they've accepted that the games journalism community as a whole doesn't care for them, so they're just going direct to the core gamers.

I was wondering something similar last night, although more from the journalist side. The Nintendo Direct thing is relatively new (as in the last 18-24 months), and I think if this had been a traditional "media summit" like they used to do in the spring and fall (not sure if they do it any more) and journalists were able to actually play some early builds maybe there would've been less cynicism. I think it's fair to expect some doubting Thomases when companies completely bypass the fourth estate and go directly to consumers.

So I don't think there's anything too wrong with calling these announcements "vapor" since that's what they are until proven otherwise. Nintendo, like most software/hardware companies, has a long list of games and peripherals that were announced and later cancelled (ie. Wii Vitality Sensor), or shelved for years only to show up on different hardware (Mother 3, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Kirby's Air Ride, etc.). Part of the problem with Kohler's article is that "vaporware" has become a really loaded word in the gamer vernacular. Just look at the Ouya thread and how people were bristling at the articles written about their Kickstarter. At the same time, we're really complacent with games being announced and taking forever to materialize. We're still waiting for games like Final Fantasy XIII Versus orThe Last Guardian to appear. And who can forget the decade long saga of Duke Nukem Forever? Companies know they can say "We're making a new game in franchise Y" and gamers will eat it up. Nintendo is a master of this PR tactic. Look at E3 2011 when they just randomly threw out "New Smash Bros.", completely in passing, and how the crowd reacted despite pre-production not starting in earnest until May of last year. Or E3 2010 which prompted this Penny-Arcade comic. Nintendo, bitches. Indeed.

However, I don't think, even for a second, that yesterday's announcements won't be full-fledged products, which is why I think calling them "vaporware" is a bit unfair even if it is a correct usage of the term.

Vaporware aside, Kohler is right to raise an eyebrow at the timing of the announcements. As ianunderhill and others have made clear, there is an undercurrent of buyer remorse and thinking there's nothing major on the horizon. There's also the issue raised in the journalist spheres about not knowing what's going on with the system features like Virtual Console and improving performance. Yesterday definitely addressed both these issues, even though some sites couldn't even go 24 hours before having a whinge that Nintendo is still hiding secrets from them. Nasty Nintendoses!

But if you think about this announcement some more, a lot of it was targeted toward the fall. This could've easily been Nintendo's E3 presentation this year, with so much emphasis on what's coming out in the Fall. I'm hoping this means that E3 will still be chock full of announcements, but it's a clear signal that they're worried about the holiday season. While the first year of any console is really critical, this one is doubly so as they're looking at some really stiff competition with both Sony and MS expected to launch their new, more powerful, hardware this fall. The only way Nintendo can really hope to compete with them will be on price and software. Price probably isn't likely to change that much, which leaves software as the weapon of choice. Nintendo needs to make sure they have a good roster of games available by Thanksgiving if they want a shot at keeping the barbarians away from the gates. The timing is impeccable too. Most of the chatter the last week or so has been regarding rumors about the new consoles. Yesterday? Mostly Nintendo and THQ, and a lot of asking "now do you want a Wii U?". Butt pats and high-fives all around at Nintendo PR.

---

tl;dr: I think this was the thesis of Kohler's article: Nintendo's on the defensive which means a volley of announcement titles. Now we wait to see what shows up.

Or as Kohler said on his twitter feed:

Backed-up-against-a-wall Nintendo is best Nintendo.

It's going to be a fun year.

I get what you're saying Shoptroll but Kohler has turned into the "Nintendo is damned if they do, damned if they don't". I guarantee he'll write an article about the virtual console and the "unfair" or "stupid" upgrade charge and in that article he'll talk about how Apple is doing it better with iOS. It's like that Kotaku article, no one seems to complain that if I buy a game for an iPhone a lot of time I have to pay another time for the iPad. Well, maybe they are but I don't see it like the same drumbeat going on about Nintendo. I actually think the reason Nintendo started these direct presentations is that the enthusiasts press kind of forced them to. I remember reading websites and listening to podcast in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and I would hear or read when it came to Wii games "I'd really like to play game X if it wasn't' on the Wii" and then these guys would say "the Wii just doesn't have any games!" I don't think the enthusiasts press, by and large, plays any games on Nintendo platforms unless it is A: from Nintendo or B: They are doing it for their job. They don't go home and fire up their Nintendo consoles or handhelds and just play games for fun. I'm not saying Kohler is in that group but I think by and large anyone writing for a professional gaming blog, is.

I think Nintendo was scrambling a little bit because so many people have been asking these questions: What is coming out next? What about this feature? What about improving the OS? I think it's a good thing that Nintendo listened to their fan base and said "Here is a little taste of what will be coming this year". I think every game they showed yesterday will be released this year, at least in Japan. It will be interesting to see how often Chris Kohler uses the term during E3, he won't but he doesn't have to be held accountable for anything he has said in the past.

There is just so much group think with these bloggers that I just ignore them, now. I used to read Game|Life daily and I haven't read it until yesterday (to see the response) because I know what they're going to say. They are boring now. I'd rather read what people here say and what some of the people on twitter are saying.