Dark Souls Catch-All

danopian wrote:
Dakuna wrote:
Sonicator wrote:
aut.taker wrote:
Sonicator wrote:

To progress Logan

Spoiler:

You have to go back to the room where you first encountered Seath

That is false and I posted the correct answer 30 minutes before you...

Whoops, must not have hit refresh.

I think aut.taker gave a more complete answer, but he neglected the fact that Logan is already mumbling. Sonicator is not wrong.

Thanks folks. I took to the wiki to clarify this, it would appear that

Spoiler:

Big Hat starts mumbling after you kill Seath, but does not go fully crazy until you buy all his spells, at which point the next time you speak with him you get even crazier dialogue and he moves upstairs once you leave the area.

Yeah, thats why I responded to Sonicator, you need to do that to advance his questline, just going there is not enough. Sorry if I came across sharp to him, but I thought you were trolling me, posting right under me.

The Great Hollow can bite me. Been there, done that, cleared it and Ash Lake, and I didn't bother going back in NG+ since I didn't need anything from either.

It's actually no problem to navigate through, but trying to get all the items by platforming in Dark Souls is super annoying.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

The Great Hollow can bite me. Been there, done that, cleared it and Ash Lake, and I didn't bother going back in NG+ since I didn't need anything from either.

It's actually no problem to navigate through, but trying to get all the items by platforming in Dark Souls is super annoying.

Yeah, it's like playing Pachinko, dropping yourself down the Hollow and hoping you end up on the right branch with an item before you die at the bottom and try again.

The platforming in this game is absolutely horrible. I don't understand why these elements were included. Just awful. And one of the reason why Blight town just sucks so much. One false move and you're dead. One mistimed roll and you're dead.

It's not so bad after you've played the level about 60 times.

DARK SOULS!

Yeah, I found Blight Town pretty manageable. I guess I'm weird.

Wait, you're trying to figure out why Dark Souls would include a component that is likely to lead to a quick and possibly frustrating death?

I just want to make sure I read that right.

maverickz wrote:

The platforming in this game is absolutely horrible.

I'm a weirdo. I like the dumb platforming challenges. It's nice to have an action game without the "press X to platform" button, even if the controls for it aren't the greatest. It always feels good to finally land on that tree branch 50 feet below.

At least it's pretty much all optional items.

maverickz wrote:

The platforming in this game is absolutely horrible. I don't understand why these elements were included. Just awful. And one of the reason why Blight town just sucks so much. One false move and you're dead. One mistimed roll and you're dead.

Well thats pretty much always the case with platforming, at least Mario, Meatboy & Co didnt give me any second chances

Tbh I dont find it bad, and I hate Jump&Run stuff. Other then a few things in Blighttown and Great Hollow, there isnt much to do.. and in Blighttown you can skip almost all of that if you know the route

maverickz wrote:

The platforming in this game is absolutely horrible. I don't understand why these elements were included. Just awful. And one of the reason why Blight town just sucks so much. One false move and you're dead. One mistimed roll and you're dead.

There's platforming in Blighttown? Only place I can think of is the jump to get the Iato.

Blighttown wasn't that bad for me, either. I was just excited about making progress. It felt like a big maze, partly because I didn't know to look for torches, but I accepted it the way it was...it was an expression of the whole Dark Souls design. Except for the framerate, which is an embarrassment.

And dan: Perfect analogy with pachinko!

There's "strategic dropping" in Blighttown, but I wouldn't call it platforming. You can only get to some spots / items by dropping in on them. The rest of the place is accessible without any such platforming, albeit still confusing and frustrating.

There is this one jump in Blighttown that the speedrunners do where you leap off a top platform, bounce once, jump again, and land on the water wheel.

Every time I see it I can't believe someone spent the time to figure it out.

psu_13 wrote:

There is this one jump in Blighttown that the speedrunners do where you leap off a top platform, bounce once, jump again, and land on the water wheel.

Every time I see it I can't believe someone spent the time to figure it out.

Video please!

Edit: used my google-fu, I think this is what you're referring to

Yeah that's it.

aut.taker wrote:

Yeah, thats why I responded to Sonicator, you need to do that to advance his questline, just going there is not enough. Sorry if I came across sharp to him, but I thought you were trolling me, posting right under me.

No worries. I can see how it would have come across that way, but it really was just a case of me wandering off and doing other stuff between opening the tab and writing the answer (and having forgotten about buying all the sorceries since I did that anyway).

As a rule of thumb there's not really any trolling on this site... well, except in a good natured way like the Darksiders and Goldblum memes. One of the main reasons I've stuck around the site for so long.

Er, for the lack of trolling that is. Not the shirtless Goldblum.

Not the shirtless Goldblum.

Don't lie.

I did the deed. Thanks for everyone's help along the way!

Now I want all the lore. (Massive spoilers to follow)

Spoiler:

I watched a few videos and think I get the jist of it. Here are some more detailed questions I'd appreciate input on:
- Are we to conclude that the other players besides yourself are all on their way to also sacrifice themselves to prolong the life of the first flame? How does this square with the "dark soul" ending, which ends that loop, or is the game not reaching for that much continuity across different people's play-throughs? I'm assuming it isn't, due to multiple players all being able to kill the same NPCs and enemies.
- Is there any indication of what the "Annals" were that the Firstborn (I'm going to go ahead and say Solaire, that theory completely squares with what I saw) destroyed?
- Does anyone else think Gwyndolin deliberately made the illusion of Gwynevere well-endowed, to better persuade the chosen undead(s)? And subsequently, that that is creepy? I might just be trying to justify the stereotypical female body depiction, but to be fair you don't really see that anywhere else in the game, such as on the PC models or with Dusk, besides Queelag.
- Also, several videos mentioned him being raised as a girl or considering himself a woman - is there an in-game source for that? If so, there could be something there (Gwyndolin over-appreciating his sister's body or being jealous of it due to his perceived ugliness).
- Manus as the Furtive Pygmy? Somebody convince me. Why does he want the Broken Pendant, and how did it end up in a golem in the Duke's Archives?
- Why was Hawkeye Gough imprisoned in that tower, while Artorias and Ciaran were free?
- Why did Ciaran die while Artorias and Ornstein lived on for centuries? What killed her (assuming you don't do it yourself, and that it's her corpse behind Artorias' grave)?

That's all I've got for now. Looking forward to your thoughts!

Congrats! Take a breather and then jump into Dark Souls 2!

danopian wrote:

I did the deed. Thanks for everyone's help along the way!

Now I want all the lore. (Massive spoilers to follow)

Spoiler:

I watched a few videos and think I get the jist of it. Here are some more detailed questions I'd appreciate input on:
- Are we to conclude that the other players besides yourself are all on their way to also sacrifice themselves to prolong the life of the first flame? How does this square with the "dark soul" ending, which ends that loop, or is the game not reaching for that much continuity across different people's play-throughs? I'm assuming it isn't, due to multiple players all being able to kill the same NPCs and enemies.
- Is there any indication of what the "Annals" were that the Firstborn (I'm going to go ahead and say Solaire, that theory completely squares with what I saw) destroyed?
- Does anyone else think Gwyndolin deliberately made the illusion of Gwynevere well-endowed, to better persuade the chosen undead(s)? And subsequently, that that is creepy? I might just be trying to justify the stereotypical female body depiction, but to be fair you don't really see that anywhere else in the game, such as on the PC models or with Dusk, besides Queelag.
- Also, several videos mentioned him being raised as a girl or considering himself a woman - is there an in-game source for that? If so, there could be something there (Gwyndolin over-appreciating his sister's body or being jealous of it due to his perceived ugliness).
- Manus as the Furtive Pygmy? Somebody convince me. Why does he want the Broken Pendant, and how did it end up in a golem in the Duke's Archives?
- Why was Hawkeye Gough imprisoned in that tower, while Artorias and Ciaran were free?
- Why did Ciaran die while Artorias and Ornstein lived on for centuries? What killed her (assuming you don't do it yourself, and that it's her corpse behind Artorias' grave)?

That's all I've got for now. Looking forward to your thoughts!

Answers:

Spoiler:

1. Mostly yes. Since the "time is convuluted" multiple player can prolong or end the cycle without affecting you, since they are in a different world.
2. Not to my knowledge, background lore is actually quite thin. Pure Speculation, but interesting though: Annals could have been some stuff in Dukes Archives, or somewhere else that Seath wanted, that he destroyed to stop Seath, and Gwyn didn't know how bad Seath was yet and banned him.
3. Don't think so to be honest, she is just a giant woman, with giant breasts. if you're the chosen one and get convinced by them, although i do love them too, you are doing a very poor job
4. Only that he has "Moon Powers" and Moon is aligned with female. Nothing really else afaik.
5. Nothing else makes sense. Most likely the Oolacile Sorcerer woke up the Pygmy in his grave and then did something (torture, experiment) to twist him, and since he was so powerful he became the twisted being Manus. He had one half of the broken Pendant, possibly his only connection to the world that still remains, possibly just madness. Most likely just a gameplay decision, otherwise Golems searched for stuff for Seath, maybe Seath wanted it.
6.Good question. Gough is actually not blind, his helmet is packed with resin. Speculation I read were he imprisoned himself (unlikely), Artorias imprisoned him to save him (possible since you find the key), the Oolacile People imprisoned him (possible, because of helmet inscription), Pharis dueled him and then he (got?) imprisoned (possible, unllikely though).
7. Heartbroken, i would assume. Clear hints she was in love with him, and since you killed him she would want to join him in afterlife (?) or just wants to die, assuming you didnt kill her too.

Re: Gwyndolin -

Spoiler:

The description for (her) robe spells it out; "The power of the moon was strong in Gwyndolin, and thus he was raised as a daughter. His magic garb is silk-thin and hardly provides any physical defense." So it comes down to a supposed feminine aspect of the moon.

Re: Gwynevere

Spoiler:

Not to take all the mysteriousness out of it, but if this translation of the Dark Souls Design Works is to be trusted...

Hatayama: Can I ask about Gwynevere, because compared to the other female charters she's very different, almost glamorous.

Miyazaki: …. You don't like the design?

Hatayama: No, I just wanted to know what the original idea behind it was.

Otsuka: As a fan of the character I'd be interested to hear that too. Haha.

Miyazaki: Well, the truth is, I just wanted to make a really big woman. I think it was a Fujiko F. Fujio manga, (Yasuragi no Yakata, literally Tranqil Mansion), there was a company president who joins an exclusive club to escape his stressful work life, and there's a giant woman who takes care of the club members, almost like a mother… don't you think that's just a perfect situation? A giant, considerate, caring woman. The kind we all lost when we grew up, that's what I wanted to make. Originally I also wanted to put a mouth in the palm of her hand, and we made all of the animations, but it didn't make it into the final game. Talking of glamour, her breasts are nothing to do with me, they happened without my knowledge. It's all the artist's fault. I think I mentioned it earlier but I always seek a certain refinement in all my designs.

Waragai: Really? Haha

Miyazaki: Yes, But the artist had such a happy look on his face that I didn't have the heart to stop him.

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

maverickz wrote:

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

I was able to beat his ass (quite literally) last night. It’s pretty easy to get behind him, hit his butt, get him to go into the butt stomp animation, and repeat. If you see him do a long wind-up (though when he’s close to dead, that wind-up is dramatically shortened) get about ten feet behind him to dodge his magic blast.

Other than that, I spent an evening failing to drain New Londo. I keep getting to the fireplace room only to get ganged up on by all those ghosts. Downside to fists: it’s really hard to hit multiple enemies at once. I got it down to one or two ghosts once or twice only to get stun-locked from full health to dead. Those dudes are no joke.

Regarding who Manus is and why he is the way he is etc.

Spoiler:

I always thought he went mad from grief over losing Dusk. The broken pendant you find awakens him, hence he grabs you into the past when you come within his reach, the broken pendant comes from a golem, Dusk was trapped by a golem also. The other pendant could be the broken pendant before it was stolen, but after Manus lost it. He does kidnap Dusk, you are saving her from Manus when you take him down - she is there and you can talk to her after the boss fight I believe.

To give it a timeline:

Seath's golem kidnaps Dusk, she drops her pendant. Manus goes nuts trying to find her, can't find her and has no idea the pendant is lying on a ledge somewhere in town still. This would be his last memento of her, if he had it. Later, another golem finds the pendant (how much later, we don't know, but it is broken either by the golem, or by something else before the golem finds it). The golem can sense the power in it, and its links to Manus/Pygmy, so it takes it to Seath, but because it's broken Seath doesn't really care about it. You find the broken pendant and Manus senses this link once the pendant falls into undead hands and grabs you when he has the chance. The rest you know...

Dakuna wrote:

Regarding who Manus is and why he is the way he is etc.

Spoiler:

I always thought he went mad from grief over losing Dusk. The broken pendant you find awakens him, hence he grabs you into the past when you come within his reach, the broken pendant comes from a golem, Dusk was trapped by a golem also. The other pendant could be the broken pendant before it was stolen, but after Manus lost it. He does kidnap Dusk, you are saving her from Manus when you take him down - she is there and you can talk to her after the boss fight I believe.

To give it a timeline:

Seath's golem kidnaps Dusk, she drops her pendant. Manus goes nuts trying to find her, can't find her and has no idea the pendant is lying on a ledge somewhere in town still. This would be his last memento of her, if he had it. Later, another golem finds the pendant (how much later, we don't know, but it is broken either by the golem, or by something else before the golem finds it). The golem can sense the power in it, and its links to Manus/Pygmy, so it takes it to Seath, but because it's broken Seath doesn't really care about it. You find the broken pendant and Manus senses this link once the pendant falls into undead hands and grabs you when he has the chance. The rest you know...

[spoiler]Manus was already mad before he captured Dusk, and she has not really a connection to the pendant. Also, it is very likely that Pygmy is Manus, and then he lived long before Dusk - I'm not sure why he should be sad about losing Dusk, since he cares about the pendant and is pretty much rage incarnated. I find it more likely that Seath captured Dusk, trying to do his experiments with her (or trying to make another Priscilla?), for why Manus captured her, I have no idea, it does not make much sense, other then gameplay wise since he is the boss. Haven't found a satisfying answer to everything concerning Manus..

maverickz wrote:

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

Are you meleeing him? In my experience he was pretty much Fire Sage all over again, dodge (or block if you can) his big attack, run away from his explosion, get near him and hit him until he jumps up, go back and repeat. He is weak to fire and lightning too.

edit: sorry for double post, wanted to edit.

aut.taker wrote:

[spoiler]Manus was already mad before he captured Dusk, and she has not really a connection to the pendant. Also, it is very likely that Pygmy is Manus, and then he lived long before Dusk - I'm not sure why he should be sad about losing Dusk, since he cares about the pendant and is pretty much rage incarnated. I find it more likely that Seath captured Dusk, trying to do his experiments with her (or trying to make another Priscilla?), for why Manus captured her, I have no idea, it does not make much sense, other then gameplay wise since he is the boss. Haven't found a satisfying answer to everything concerning Manus..

Spoiler:

Dusk came from Oolacile long ago. She has been trapped in the golem for a very long time. I know there is nothing directly relating her to the pendant, but Manus capturing her (yes, after he has been mad for centuries - while she was trapped in a golem and he had no idea where) connects the dots for me. You don't have to agree.

Oy, this game. I don't even know where to start.

I've tried to play it 3 times since release and quickly lost interest, but now, on my fourth attempt I think it has finally jabbed it's wicked barbed hooks deep under my skin. Ouch! My skin!

I'm still very early in the game, exploring the Undead Burg/Parish and periodically challenging the rooftop Gargoyles only to get smacked into oblivion without even landing a solid hit. Sometimes I get fooled into thinking I'm getting halfway decent at the combat, only to meet the next creature who brutally deals out the truth:

That I suck.
And my skin is bleeding.

aut.taker wrote:
maverickz wrote:

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

Are you meleeing him? In my experience he was pretty much Fire Sage all over again, dodge (or block if you can) his big attack, run away from his explosion, get near him and hit him until he jumps up, go back and repeat. He is weak to fire and lightning too.

edit: sorry for double post, wanted to edit.

I meleed him the best I could. I guess i couldn't run around him well enough to get to his back. Either I ended up too close during the butt drop attack, or got too far and he swept his stick, which really hurt. I tried o stick to his back and it worked ok. It's just that there's so little room for error.

maverickz wrote:
aut.taker wrote:
maverickz wrote:

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

Are you meleeing him? In my experience he was pretty much Fire Sage all over again, dodge (or block if you can) his big attack, run away from his explosion, get near him and hit him until he jumps up, go back and repeat. He is weak to fire and lightning too.

edit: sorry for double post, wanted to edit.

I meleed him the best I could. I guess i couldn't run around him well enough to get to his back. Either I ended up too close during the butt drop attack, or got too far and he swept his stick, which really hurt. I tried o stick to his back and it worked ok. It's just that there's so little room for error.

Focus on the timing, and make sure you are using the best equipment available for the encounter. Surviving the drop and initial attack will become the only challenge when you are comfortable with the fight.

Dakuna wrote:
maverickz wrote:
aut.taker wrote:
maverickz wrote:

Boy, that Stray Demon is kind of tough. Got him to half health, but that's the best I could do last night.

Are you meleeing him? In my experience he was pretty much Fire Sage all over again, dodge (or block if you can) his big attack, run away from his explosion, get near him and hit him until he jumps up, go back and repeat. He is weak to fire and lightning too.

edit: sorry for double post, wanted to edit.

I meleed him the best I could. I guess i couldn't run around him well enough to get to his back. Either I ended up too close during the butt drop attack, or got too far and he swept his stick, which really hurt. I tried o stick to his back and it worked ok. It's just that there's so little room for error.

Focus on the timing, and make sure you are using the best equipment available for the encounter. Surviving the drop and initial attack will become the only challenge when you are comfortable with the fight.

So, oddly enough, the drop and initial attack are not a problem for me. I can reliably fall, roll back, and get to a corner where he can't see me and does not aggro. So I have a minute to drink from my flask and regain composure. The video I watched was of someone doing this fight totally unarmored, for stamina's sake. I tried it that way, without much luck.