Gaming Confessions & Blasphemy

Tanglebones wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Why is "watching movies" or "playing video games" not a real hobby with merit? I can see the point that without the verb you don't know facet of movies or video games they enjoy, but why isn't enjoying media a valid hobby? Did the blog post address this, or just take it as a given?

I'm sick of all these fake movie girls coming in and seducing me without knowing about Orson Welles's use of chiaroscuro in Citizen Kane.

Heh, that's what I wanted to avoid sounding like.

It could simply be that I cannot comprehend wanting to just watch movies without thinking about them. My sister has stated several times that if she wanted to think she wouldn't be watching a movie. This just makes me want to thrash and flail, because movies like, say, District 9 are designed with that very purpose. To me, it feels like an insult to the film itself if you walk away thinking "Yeah that was pretty good. I liked when them mechs grabbed the missileses. Now let's go grab some Micky-Dee's."

At the same time, this is still an elitist perspective. To tie it back to how I ended my statement, technically, if it makes someone happy, it shouldn't be considered a waste of time. As long as it isn't doing harm to them or others.

I feel like I should backtrack and instead say just that. Video games may be meaningless to you, even if you enjoy them, but something doesn't need to be productive to have meaning.

I'd like to take a sec and suggest we make this thread more about self admission and not spewing hatred about current gaming tendencies.

having said that, here's my big list.

Don't like Ico. I heard so much about this game. It could be a case of not playing it when it first came out. But the game I started playing did not live up to the hype around it.

I'm intrigued by Halo, and can't bring myself to buy an X Box. This is a personal issue. I can't break away from the Halo-player stereotype. What's worse, I see all XBox players as the typical dude-calling, popped collar, backward cap-wearing bros.

It's been a few pages, so I don't know exactly who called it, but I need to buy a beer to whoever celebrated FF4 and FF6 as the best in the series.

I still argue keyb+mouse is the way to play for, even if my last fps was portal 2 and I can't remember the one before that.
I call all consoles "Nintendo" in front of non gamers. I'm a closeted gamer. I don't think I'll ever free myself of this. My entire social circle (work+personal) is composed of non-gamers (few exceptions; kexx and freu).

I blame games like God of War for all the things I hate about the stereotypical American. Again sorry for not evolving beyond this. Just like all Mexicans are not gun-slingers wearing big sombreros, I know not all residents of the US are as antagonizing as the "gringo" stereotype would make us believe.

I've only played minutes of Psychonauts, and I only bought it because all "true" gamers must have it and love it.

I'm so uninterested in Dwarf Fortress, I'm not even sure what it is. Text based mine crafty rogue game?

I loved ME1, and believe the story and pacing were far superior to ME2. Still haven't played ME3.

Megaman 2 is the only good Megaman game. Also, the best soundtrack of the NES generation.

Bastion was amazing for me mostly because it's the Steven King's Dark Tower game that will never be made.

I really, really, really liked Ultima 8. I've only played Ultima VII and a few hours of Ultima Underworld.

I prefer the PS3 controller to the xbox. I'm not contagious; why are you slowly stepping away from me with that look on your face?

Super Metroid is, by far, the best game I have ever played.

Grim Fandango is the best writing seen in a game, and by far the best thing to ever happen to LucasArts.

---------EDIT-------------
Just re-read my post and noticed I spew some hatred of my own.
Sorry about that. Some touch ups to reduce any annoyances.
I love y'all gringos.

If films like Hugo or Ebert's writing can put forth the notion of cinema as "public dream" without challenge ("If you've ever wondered where your dreams come from, you look around... this is where they're made"), then how the hell can video games, where you actually participate (!), not be afforded the same weight? Trifles + time = venerable institutions. I can't wait to see how the regard for games changes by the time I'm eighty.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I loved ME1, and believe the story and pacing were far superior to ME2. Still haven't played ME3.

High five!

Megaman 2 is the only good Megaman game. Also, the best soundtrack of the NES generation.

Nevermind.

IUMogg wrote:

Burnout Paradise is one of the most disappointing games of this generation Again a game I don't understand the love for. They took a great series and ruined it.

THANK YOU. YES. I had hours upon hours of fun with Burnout: Revenge, slamming cars and punching my friends in the shoulder, sitting on the couch next to me when they won. I found Paradise to be a tedious exercise in memorization and pinpoint accurate driving. I found zero fun in the game and am mystified when people slather it with bacon-scented praise. You might be my soul mate.

ccesarano wrote:
Hobbes2099 wrote:

I loved ME1, and believe the story and pacing were far superior to ME2. Still haven't played ME3.

High five!

Megaman 2 is the only good Megaman game. Also, the best soundtrack of the NES generation.

Nevermind.

:D

I demand the highest of fives!!!
the original Megaman was pretty good; but I can't recall anything great about MM3, and anything worth my time after that.

trueheart78 wrote:

You would be surprised how much of my reading strength I would attribute to RPGs during the NES and SNES era. Books were interesting, sure, but worlds I got to interact in?

According to my parents, I taught myself to read so I could get information from the instruction manuals on how better to play.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I demand the highest of fives!!!
the original Megaman was pretty good; but I can't recall anything great about MM3, and anything worth my time after that.

Mega Man X is where it's at.

Demosthenes wrote:
trueheart78 wrote:

You would be surprised how much of my reading strength I would attribute to RPGs during the NES and SNES era. Books were interesting, sure, but worlds I got to interact in?

According to my parents, I taught myself to read so I could get information from the instruction manuals on how better to play. :D

Final Fantasy did indeed help teach me how to read. Instruction Manuals and Nintendo Power are what taught me how to draw, though.

Demyx wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Why is "watching movies" or "playing video games" not a real hobby with merit? I can see the point that without the verb you don't know facet of movies or video games they enjoy, but why isn't enjoying media a valid hobby? Did the blog post address this, or just take it as a given?

The basic gist is there's a difference between "I watch whatever's new in Netflix/Redbox and don't give it any thought after it's done" and someone who actually takes an interest in movies and filmmaking as a topic. There's nothing wrong with the former, but you're not really someone with an interest in movies, you just like watching movies to relax and pass time.

I mean, I agree that they're not the same hobby, but they're both still real hobbies with merit. Maybe you think one has more merit than the other, but they're both hobbies.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I'd like to take a sec and suggest we make this thread more about self admission and not spewing hatred about current gaming tendencies.

I'm intrigued by Halo, and can't bring myself to buy an X Box. This is a personal issue. I can't break away from the Halo-player stereotype. What's worse, I see all XBox players as the typical dude-calling, popped collar, backward cap-wearing bros.

Dude, that's not fair.

Actually, and I suppose this is another confession...
I love my Xbox 360 but I suspect I'm not the target audience for it.
Case in point - I recently received an email from Xbox Live Rewards...

redherring,
Thank you for being among the most loyal members of Xbox LIVE. As excited as we are about a decade of accomplishment, Xbox LIVE would be absolutely nowhere without you.

At this point I'm asking myself .. uh really? I got my first 360 in 2008. It goes on with various statistics about Xbox Live usage.

redherring, in the past year, you've accumulated 0 hours of multiplayer time.
redherring, you’ve spent 0 hours using entertainment apps on Xbox LIVE.
redherring, you have 0 friends on Xbox LIVE.

Redherring wrote:

redherring, in the past year, you've accumulated 0 hours of multiplayer time.
redherring, you’ve spent 0 hours using entertainment apps on Xbox LIVE.
redherring, you have 0 friends on Xbox LIVE.

I laughed. Then I felt bad. It looks so sad and lonely! I'm sure you have an active social life, but it looks like XBL is trying so hard to be friends with you. "Please come hang out with me! I have nobody!"

I am totally a dudebro, driving my kids around in the suburbs in my minivan with a popped collar, backwards baseball hat, and high-fiving all the other DUDES I see.

I have a sudden urge to put some horn-rimmed glasses over my 360's glowing green eye, and also potentially figure out some kind of cooling system that features ever-circulating PBR.

Rallick wrote:
Redherring wrote:

redherring, in the past year, you've accumulated 0 hours of multiplayer time.
redherring, you’ve spent 0 hours using entertainment apps on Xbox LIVE.
redherring, you have 0 friends on Xbox LIVE.

I laughed. Then I felt bad. It looks so sad and lonely! I'm sure you have an active social life, but it looks like XBL is trying so hard to be friends with you. "Please come hang out with me! I have nobody!"

Not really, it says XBL has millions of friends and billions of hours spent playing games & "using entertainment apps" so it's just me. I don't pay for XBL so I can't do any of those things.

Redherring wrote:
Hobbes2099 wrote:

I'd like to take a sec and suggest we make this thread more about self admission and not spewing hatred about current gaming tendencies.

I'm intrigued by Halo, and can't bring myself to buy an X Box. This is a personal issue. I can't break away from the Halo-player stereotype. What's worse, I see all XBox players as the typical dude-calling, popped collar, backward cap-wearing bros.

Dude, that's not fair.

Actually, and I suppose this is another confession...
I love my Xbox 360 but I suspect I'm not the target audience for it.
Case in point - I recently received an email from Xbox Live Rewards...

redherring,
Thank you for being among the most loyal members of Xbox LIVE. As excited as we are about a decade of accomplishment, Xbox LIVE would be absolutely nowhere without you.

At this point I'm asking myself .. uh really? I got my first 360 in 2008. It goes on with various statistics about Xbox Live usage.

redherring, in the past year, you've accumulated 0 hours of multiplayer time.
redherring, you’ve spent 0 hours using entertainment apps on Xbox LIVE.
redherring, you have 0 friends on Xbox LIVE.

I got the exact same stats on my email, bought my XBOX at the same time. Have a nearly full friends list, and have played lots of multiplayer this year. Their stats are broken.

just put here all that was said related to what I said. all interesting points

Please remember I didn't say videogames were better or worse than. I was talking about them in absolute terms. They're not the single waste of time we can indulge in.

We might be diverging from the point of the thread, but my take of it is this: there are too few games that respect both our time and bring something other than anesthesia and escapism. Some of you mentioned books and films, but it's not what supports the work that's at stake here. There are very many empty books and very many empty films and very many empty songs and very many empty men and women, that aspire nothing more than to entertain us. The irony of the thing is that sometimes works of greater power manage to seep into the mainstream.

Yes, videogames are a valid hobby. Just like watching movies. But due to their complex nature and our predisposition to enjoy the shinier, explodier things, they have a serious difficulty in coming in as both serious and engaging. Let's forget the word fun for a bit here.

Put The Portrait of Dorian Grey next to... I don't know... The Secret? Look from a distance. They are similar. Just a bunch of written pages. They look and behave mechanically the same. With movies we start to have presentation factoring in, changing the way we approach the work. Do we prefer the one with the aesthetic A? Or the one with the aesthetic B? But again, they behave mechanically the same. Just a series of pictures moving quickly. Nothing to it. I learn to watch movies once. I learn to read books once. I refine those processes, pick more detail up and delve into hidden layers of meaning, but the core skill is the same. Interpret images. Interpret words. Interpret sounds.

With games there are systems to be learned. If the game is really good, some personal value will be obtained as we learn the systems. Once the skill set is developed, and the interface becomes transparent (the UI stops being something you look at consciously) the game can be fascinating, making something known, that exists outside the game, but not quite inside our conscious mind yet.

But then we pick another game up. And some of that learning is wasted. Some of the time spent learning is wasted. So we must learn again. Most of us do it physically alone, for hours and hours, while the world with birds and bees and trees keeps turning, without our active presence in it.

Seems wasteful. I don't know... I'm rambling now.

lostlobster wrote:
IUMogg wrote:

Burnout Paradise is one of the most disappointing games of this generation Again a game I don't understand the love for. They took a great series and ruined it.

THANK YOU. YES. I had hours upon hours of fun with Burnout: Revenge, slamming cars and punching my friends in the shoulder, sitting on the couch next to me when they won. I found Paradise to be a tedious exercise in memorization and pinpoint accurate driving. I found zero fun in the game and am mystified when people slather it with bacon-scented praise. You might be my soul mate.

Burnout 3 is the last good Burnout game.

[size=8]I've only ever played Burnout Paradise, and I enjoyed it.[/size]

WipEout wrote:

[size=8]I've only ever played Burnout Paradise, and I enjoyed it.[/size]

Same, and everything else I've played from Criterion has been terrible.

oMonarca wrote:

With games there are systems to be learned. If the game is really good, some personal value will be obtained as we learn the systems. Once the skill set is developed, and the interface becomes transparent (the UI stops being something you look at consciously) the game can be fascinating, making something known, that exists outside the game, but not quite inside our conscious mind yet.

But then we pick another game up. And some of that learning is wasted. Some of the time spent learning is wasted. So we must learn again. Most of us do it physically alone, for hours and hours, while the world with birds and bees and trees keeps turning, without our active presence in it.

Seems wasteful. I don't know... I'm rambling now.

This is a good point brought up, and probably one of the reasons video games seem to have such a barrier to newcomers. You have to learn how to play one game, but that game may run differently than another. It's easy to just think that's not a problem, or even exciting, when you've been doing this your entire life.

At the same time, there is still the question of benefits, such as learning to problem solve. Technically video games can teach you how to experiment and perform trial and error to figure out how something works. Once you figure it out you have that whole problem solving thing. It can be blatant such as puzzles in Portal or Zelda, or more subtle such as figuring out how to handle a horde of Locust in Gears of War flanking you while you only have one weapon at half ammo and a single grenade.

But your point is still true. Video games are one medium that requires the audience to take time to learn the rules every time, and normally this is long and boring, especially if you already know how to play that style of game.

WipEout wrote:

[size=8]I've only ever played Burnout Paradise, and I enjoyed it.[/size]

Poor boy, that's not your fault. You don't know any better.

shoptroll wrote:

I've not played a Grand Theft Auto since Vice City and I don't completely regret it

Yet, I still bought San Andreas and IV for some unknown reason... Actually, I haven't played a R* game since Vice City.

Shop - I'd really recommend giving Red Dead Redemption a shot. Way better story than any of the GTAs, and being set back in the west gives it a great theme and feel.

I never played any of those Donkey Kong games for the 64
They looked dumb and I don't regret avoiding any of them.

Grenn wrote:

I never played any of those Donkey Kong games for the 64
They looked dumb and I don't regret avoiding any of them.

But how else are you going to learn to play the bongos?

hbi2k wrote:
lostlobster wrote:
IUMogg wrote:

Burnout Paradise is one of the most disappointing games of this generation Again a game I don't understand the love for. They took a great series and ruined it.

THANK YOU. YES. I had hours upon hours of fun with Burnout: Revenge, slamming cars and punching my friends in the shoulder, sitting on the couch next to me when they won. I found Paradise to be a tedious exercise in memorization and pinpoint accurate driving. I found zero fun in the game and am mystified when people slather it with bacon-scented praise. You might be my soul mate.

Burnout 3 is the last good Burnout game.

My impression is, and I could easily be wrong, that they lowered the angle of the camera for later games and you just don't get to see clearly what's coming up. My last Burnout was Takedown.

Driver San Francisco is my Burnout Paradise

While I'm posting:

I don't enjoy the game play in Blizzard games.

I'm not saying it isn't good it just isn't for me.

Edit: I've thought of a neat way to sum this up. I like to learn games organically by throwing myself into a fight and seeing what happens. With Blizzard I often feel I should be getting out a pen and paper and working out what skills I should be using, what armour I should be going for or what units I should be deploying.

oMonarca wrote:

On being something more than escapism.

"Something more" games are probably harder to design (not necessarily make, although that's damn hard too) than books and movies that are more than to get bums on seats. Also, for all the 'easy to make' games that are the equivalent of someone sitting down with word and typing, they won't be the equivalent to taking that draft to a editor/publisher and getting them in a nice book. How many of the early steam greenlight games weren't given a second look not because of their content/ideas but because of how they looked?

There's a big barrier to entry for the mass market that won't be going away, unless the mass market starts liking simplistic looking and potentially buggy games. And that's before you get 'the market' actually interested in your game.

Yay, troll thread. Me like!

There needs to be a moratorium on science-fiction/fantasy settings in games. Game settings should be more realistic.

Not that games with fantasy settings shouldn't exist, but they should be an occasional thing rather than the default. I'm convinced that far more people would be interested in gaming if the medium wasn't dominated by self-serious stories composed with goofy settings.

Sports games, Call of Duty, GTA, and Assassin's Creed are all examples of what I'm looking for in the AAA space. Abstract and cartoony settings dominate the touch market, and that is healthy.

Bioshock and The Walking Dead are examples of games with fantastic settings that are better for their grounding in reality.

RoutineMachine wrote:

There needs to be a moratorium on science-fiction/fantasy settings in games. Game settings should be more realistic.

Nah, non-realism lets you do weird stuff without it seeming weird. How many realistic games have their reality broken because a soldier can take a stupid amount of punishment before suddenly having an aneurysm after the 50th bullet, where really after one bullet anywhere with a decent hit will have them probably severely injured. There's a whole bunch of gameplay things that you can make work in a fictional/fantasy environment just by "because I said so".

WipEout wrote:

[size=8]I've only ever played Burnout Paradise, and I enjoyed it.[/size]

Same for me. All this hate for Burnout Paradise, though, makes me think I should try to get one of the previous versions. Since I've never been that good at driving games maybe I'll enjoy them even more given the criticisms from fans of the franchise!

Oh - another confession perhaps:

I still haven't finished Bioshock.
Started a couple of times, but it didn't stick. Got all the way to my first little sister encounter, then new-shiny-things kept dragging me away. I really do want to see what all the hype is about. Maybe someday. Oh look! Shiny Steam Sale!

I prefer Dishonored over Call of Duty myself, thank you very much. Then again, I'm also a nerd that prefers imaginative fantasy or sci-fi settings anyway, and I suspect the same is true of a lot of game developers.

I do see what you mean, though. I think that's part of the reason they tried what they did in Heavy Rain.

McIrishJihad wrote:

Shop - I'd really recommend giving Red Dead Redemption a shot. Way better story than any of the GTAs, and being set back in the west gives it a great theme and feel.

Gah, forgot about that one. Yeah, I actually did want to try it but I think it dropped off my radar since people stopped talking about it once I finally had a system that could play it.