NFL 2012 Week 9 Thread

Can't recall if it was Sanders or Cotchery, but one of the Steelers receivers caught the ball, went down untouched, and started to get up to run. One of the Giants secondary laid into him, which was fine. However, what was clear on replay but which I didn't hear either announced note, was that the Giants DB went helmet-to-helmet. There had been a flag thrown but the refs picked it up.

I think Ryan Clark hit Cruz too late but from his angle I don't think he could tell the ball had been deflected.

TheGameguru wrote:
And Ben lost control of the ball on that play, definitely a fumble. I'm also man enough to admit there was a blatently obvious clipping penalty on the return by JPP.

Why wasn't it a tuck rule? Arm's coming forward... I mean.. how can you explain it away? lol I love you Giants fans.

I'm watching it right now on Game Rewind.. lol again.. only a Giants fan can actually convince themselves that it was a fumble.. the replay even has a perfect view of his hand and the ball.

http://nfl.si.com/2012/11/04/ben-roe...

Brings up an excellent point.. if the above is a fumble.. how was Brady's in the playoff again against the Raiders not?. Note IMO the above is exactly a tuck rule.. but Brady's was not.. it was clear to me that Brady had finished the motion completely before getting the ball knocked out of his hand.

I never said I didn't think Brady's wasn't a fumble. It was, but not according to that stupid tuck rule. Roethlisberger was not tucking the ball, so the tuck rule doesn't come into play. Osi jostled the ball loose as his arm was back, and never had control of the ball at any point when his arm came forward. lol, hate you Eagles fans. My question is, if Ben was playing against the Eagles, would you make the same call? I confidentely would say that it was a fumble for the Eagles. If Eli was the QB and it went against the Giants, I would make the exact same arguement. It's also why I previously stated that JPP should have been flagged for clipping at the end of the penalty. To me, all you see is who got the call, based on your previous statements about "the Mannings". I try to be as unbiased as possible. Did the Giants get some bad calls that went for them yesterday that they shouldn't have? Absolutely. The fumble wasn't one of them.

*EDIT*
Watching your clip, it's funny that after Osi hits his arm, I can see Ben's palm. How can I see his palm if he had complete control of the ball. I forgot, Ben holds the ball with his finger tips.

muraii wrote:

Can't recall if it was Sanders or Cotchery, but one of the Steelers receivers caught the ball, went down untouched, and started to get up to run. One of the Giants secondary laid into him, which was fine. However, what was clear on replay but which I didn't hear either announced note, was that the Giants DB went helmet-to-helmet. There had been a flag thrown but the refs picked it up.

I think Ryan Clark hit Cruz too late but from his angle I don't think he could tell the ball had been deflected.

I think if he had stayed on the ground, it would have been called helmet to helmet. I think it should have been called regardless, as he led with his helmet. When it's helmet to helmet below the waist, I guess it's a judgement call. Regardless, I agree, that should have been flagged, especially since the play on Cruz was flagged. Clark was a tad late, but going at that speed, it's hard to slow up. Like I said before, certain angles made it look like it was H2H.

Oh, we Giants fans, so biased, unlike those Eagles fans..............

Screw both team's fans! [size=5]- Redskins fan =P[/size]

Kush15 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
And Ben lost control of the ball on that play, definitely a fumble. I'm also man enough to admit there was a blatently obvious clipping penalty on the return by JPP.

Why wasn't it a tuck rule? Arm's coming forward... I mean.. how can you explain it away? lol I love you Giants fans.

I'm watching it right now on Game Rewind.. lol again.. only a Giants fan can actually convince themselves that it was a fumble.. the replay even has a perfect view of his hand and the ball.

http://nfl.si.com/2012/11/04/ben-roe...

Brings up an excellent point.. if the above is a fumble.. how was Brady's in the playoff again against the Raiders not?. Note IMO the above is exactly a tuck rule.. but Brady's was not.. it was clear to me that Brady had finished the motion completely before getting the ball knocked out of his hand.

I never said I didn't think Brady's wasn't a fumble. It was, but not according to that stupid tuck rule. Roethlisberger was not tucking the ball, so the tuck rule doesn't come into play. Osi jostled the ball loose as his arm was back, and never had control of the ball at any point when his arm came forward. lol, hate you Eagles fans. My question is, if Ben was playing against the Eagles, would you make the same call? I confidentely would say that it was a fumble for the Eagles. If Eli was the QB and it went against the Giants, I would make the exact same arguement. It's also why I previously stated that JPP should have been flagged for clipping at the end of the penalty. To me, all you see is who got the call, based on your previous statements about "the Mannings". I try to be as unbiased as possible. Did the Giants get some bad calls that went for them yesterday that they shouldn't have? Absolutely. The fumble wasn't one of them.

*EDIT*
Watching your clip, it's funny that after Osi hits his arm, I can see Ben's palm. How can I see his palm if he had complete control of the ball. I forgot, Ben holds the ball with his finger tips.

You have Eagles fans confused.. we are the fans that are always critical no matter what.. so yes in fact I would have been just as upset on that call if it was when the Eagles were playing the Steelers.. because as Eagles fans we would have known that we didnt deserve those points and that in the end we will be exposed for probably not playing good enough to win.. You are talking about a fan base that even in a win if the team played poorly for 3 quarters and yet pulled out a win (like in the Baltimore game) we bitch and complain about the 3 quarters.. because we know that in the end it will play out over the long haul.. and viola it has. We are far to smart and educated about football to be like other fans just happy for wins.. the only win we will ever just be happy about is a Super Bowl win.

By the way.. the Tuck rule is about an arm coming forward in a throwing motion.. it specifically address that the "tucking" of the football is enough of a forward motion that any lose of the football during that motion is considered a "forward pass" If you look at Tom Brady he has completed the tuck.. thus its a bad call of a "good" rule.

What you saw last night was a forward motion.. any result should be an incomplete pass.. it doesn't matter anymore as long as the arm comes forward.. he loses control of the ball at the end of the forward motion. The tuck rule is supposed to eliminate any of the grey area.. but magically somehow it didnt last night.. lol

Kush15 wrote:

When it's helmet to helmet below the waist

Thank you for lowering our collective intelligence.

On the Clark-Cruz hit: There's a second angle on Bleacher Report; he should have pulled up short instead of finishing the hit. Contact in that situation is fine, however he had a clear view of the ball where it was deflected. Hell, even if he'd been staring at the ground, it still rolled through what he should have been able to see. Bad call on the refs part, there was no helmet to helmet contact, and I wouldn't even call that leading with the head(and we all know how vocal I am about that bullsh*t), but it should still have been penalized, albeit as unnecessary roughness.

As for the Big Ben fumble, arm was in throwing motion, incomplete pass due to losing control of the ball. He may have been attempting to tuck the ball in, but since he was clearly unsuccessful, well, as much as I love to see Steelers turnovers, that shouldn't have been one if it was.

It was clear, as his head went back, and to the left.

Jayhawker wrote:

It was clear, as his head went back, and to the left.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/o7PBS.gif)

boogle wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

When it's helmet to helmet below the waist

Thank you for lowering our collective intelligence.

What I meant was when the H2H contact is below waist level.

It's 80s night in New Orleans!

Michael "I'll Fumble For Ya" Vick.

*EDIT*
Why don't the Eagles run the ball more often? I feel like this is a complaint most Eagles fans I know have, and it's a valid one................................and that's exactly why they should. Nice throw Vick. TD Saints.

Hear that sound? That's the sound of Vick losing his job this season, and Reid losing his job at the end of the season.

Kush15 wrote:
boogle wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

When it's helmet to helmet below the waist

Thank you for lowering our collective intelligence.

What I meant was when the H2H contact is below waist level.

Sorry, I'm still struggling to understand your point.

Phishposer wrote:
Kush15 wrote:
boogle wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

When it's helmet to helmet below the waist

Thank you for lowering our collective intelligence.

What I meant was when the H2H contact is below waist level.

Sorry, I'm still struggling to understand your point.

Wrong head.

Kush15 wrote:

*EDIT*
Why don't the Eagles run the ball more often? I feel like this is a complaint most Eagles fans I know have, and it's a valid one................................

I don't get it either. Shady McCoy is damn good. He needs more touches. Carried me in one of my fantasy a year or two back, maybe both.

Phishposer wrote:
Kush15 wrote:
boogle wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

When it's helmet to helmet below the waist

Thank you for lowering our collective intelligence.

What I meant was when the H2H contact is below waist level.

Sorry, I'm still struggling to understand your point.

When one lowers his head to make a tackle on a player that is not standing upright, and there is H2H contact, it should not always be called, I feel that most of the time it's incidental.

*EDIT* IE, when a ball carrier lowers his head, and a defender lowers his head and there is H2H contact, it should not be flagged.

When one launches at another player who is upright, it probably should be called 99% of the time.

*EDIT*
Once again, the Eagles should run the ball more often. McCoy is a freakin beast. If I had to pick a favorite player on the Eagles, he would be it.

Heh, perhaps playing for Andy Reid will allow Shady to survive for an extra year or two.

Reid should do the next Eagles coach and his staff a favor and give them some game film on Foles...the season is over..our O-Line is shot

Nice crossing route by Colston. Nice pick by the ref. I'm assuming the route is designed that way. Must be frustrating for a cb though

Btw Vick currently has.... 0 fantasy points.

He slipped far enough this year in my draft I said f*ck it and took him.

I'm done with fantasy football every single player I wanted to get this year flew off the board before I could get them. I quit! /tantrum

This offensive line reminds me of Utah's at the beginning of the year. I hope Vick survives better than our starter.

McFinn wrote:

This offensive line reminds me of Utah's at the beginning of the year. I hope Vick survives better than our starter.

I'm surprised he hasn't been hurt this season, I had my money on Week 5. He's a tough SOB.

Peyton Manning continues to amaze me.

Kush15 wrote:
McFinn wrote:

This offensive line reminds me of Utah's at the beginning of the year. I hope Vick survives better than our starter.

I'm surprised he hasn't been hurt this season, I had my money on Week 5. He's a tough SOB.

That was some of the singly worst offensive line play I've ever seen. I'd love to see a count of completely free rushers the Saints D got on him last night. The Eagles defense is terrible, the offensive line can't block anybody, Vick isn't going to survive (and if he does, it'll be his last year in Philly), and Reid is a dead man walking; Philadelphia could easily be headed for a 2011 Tampa-esque "time to mail it in completely" season if somebody doesn't kick their butt into gear.

We have found the next NFL star.

She's nine.

That video was definitely sped up, which is a shame.

Regardless, we're looking at Barry Sanders, Jr.

Holy sh*t, that made my day! I lol'ed as she took down dudes twice her size. Her playing D at the end was the best part of the video, for me.

garion333 wrote:

Regardless, we're looking at Barry Sanders, Jr. ;)

In 10 years, she'll dominate the Lingerie Football League.

Note she is the only child tackling with decent form.

boogle wrote:

Note she is the only child tackling with decent form.

Yeah, it's one thing to run away from people when you're smaller and faster than them. It's a whole other thing to be making tackles on the players larger than you. She's closing the gap and making that initial contact with absolutely no tentativeness.

Yep, as I said, best part of the video. She takes down dudes twice her size!

I would not have enjoyed this nearly as much before I had a daughter, btw.