Disney Buys LucasFilm, Star Wars Episode 7 in 2015

ccesarano wrote:
Vector wrote:

Focusing on Solo and Fett are good starts, for me. I f*cking hate Jedi. I find them so boring. Great characters to have around but not having an emotional character around them...ugh.

My friends and I discussed this before as well. The lightsaber seemed so cool when you were a kid, and something still seems cool about it in the OT, but when you see them flying around everywhere it's kind of like "Okay, yeah, they're pretty...everywhere. Yeah." Same goes with Jedi. If you have a whole bunch of robed guys doing all this crazy stuff then it becomes average.

To paraphrase The Incredibles, when everyone is special, no one is.

Which is one of the reasons it always confused me that people seemed to really cling to the Jedi. I thought they were cool, but there were a whole bunch of other awesome characters as well.

Plus, their role in the prequels just doesn't seem to fit. Then again, what WERE they supposed to be? What's with the robed look? Are they monks? They have a very Zen philosophy, but they are very involved in war and politics. Are they supposed to be samurai? They don't look it.

Bah.

I think the Jedi were much easier to accept in small quantities - you aren't reminded quite so much about how silly they are when they're virtually all dead. Entire societies of Jedi just seem... weird.

This places VII-IX in a much better position than I-III from my perspective.

Part of the problem with the Jedi in the prequels is that the designs took the desert hermit robes of Kenobi and made that the standard Jedi wear. Choosing garb of two hermits of questionable sanity over the potential of samurai warriors? Or Luke's ensemble in the Return of the Jedi? That design decision is emblematic of the entire problematic approach to the prequels. The confusion in visual design reflects the confusion in ideas.

I keep referring to it as a fan-fiction problem: because fan fiction is anchored in the revealed image rather than the original inspirations, certain fan-fiction tends to hew too closely to the surface presentation of the original. This results in things like most characters having involved backstories with each other, even if they show no indication of having met earlier. Or showing a character as a child, regardless of whether that makes the most sense for his story to start there. Or costume decisions extrapolating from something that was originally meant to be an outlier.

It doesn't leave much space for new, strong ideas to enter, because the new ideas don't have the pedigree of the already produced ideas, so you get a lot of horned-in callbacks to original material (and plot beats--which are the stupidest things to recapitulate even in the same film!) and a mishmash of "neat ideas" that don't quite fit, like pod-racing.

Gremlin wrote:

Part of the problem with the Jedi in the prequels is that the designs took the desert hermit robes of Kenobi and made that the standard Jedi wear.

This makes even less sense when you remember that Kenobi was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine. Why would he wear the standard Jedi uniform if he's hiding?

Demyx wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Part of the problem with the Jedi in the prequels is that the designs took the desert hermit robes of Kenobi and made that the standard Jedi wear.

This makes even less sense when you remember that Kenobi was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine. Why would he wear the standard Jedi uniform if he's hiding?

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Secret Jedi...
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Gremlin wrote:

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Well, at the very least, Anakin appears in robes like Kenobi's at the end of Return of the Jedi. That would suggest some sort of connection between either Anakin and Tatooine or those robes and the Jedi order.

Gremlin wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Part of the problem with the Jedi in the prequels is that the designs took the desert hermit robes of Kenobi and made that the standard Jedi wear.

This makes even less sense when you remember that Kenobi was supposed to be hiding on Tatooine. Why would he wear the standard Jedi uniform if he's hiding?

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

For the same reason Lucas made Vader build C-3P0. The universe can't be big, apparently. It has to be as small as possible. I'm surprised they didn't have a toddler Han Solo holding an infant Leia at the end.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Well, at the very least, Anakin appears in robes like Kenobi's at the end of Return of the Jedi. That would suggest some sort of connection between either Anakin and Tatooine or those robes and the Jedi order.

Or that Lucas has trouble not writing fan-fiction, since that's also the film that thought that the best way to replace Wookies was to cut them in half and flip the name around to make them Ewoks. (I mean, seriously: E-wok, Wook-E.)

Gremlin wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Well, at the very least, Anakin appears in robes like Kenobi's at the end of Return of the Jedi. That would suggest some sort of connection between either Anakin and Tatooine or those robes and the Jedi order.

Or that Lucas has trouble not writing fan-fiction, since that's also the film that thought that the best way to replace Wookies was to cut them in half and flip the name around to make them Ewoks. (I mean, seriously: E-wok, Wook-E.)

I agree with you about Lucas' writing abilities. But if you're using the original trilogy as a fixed base line, it's not unreasonable to use Obi-Wan's robes as a basis for the Jedi uniform. It's dumb, yes, but not unreasonable.

Gremlin wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Well, at the very least, Anakin appears in robes like Kenobi's at the end of Return of the Jedi. That would suggest some sort of connection between either Anakin and Tatooine or those robes and the Jedi order.

Or that Lucas has trouble not writing fan-fiction, since that's also the film that thought that the best way to replace Wookies was to cut them in half and flip the name around to make them Ewoks. (I mean, seriously: E-wok, Wook-E.)

I'm so glad I'm not the only person who thinks about that...

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I agree with you about Lucas' writing abilities. But if you're using the original trilogy as a fixed base line, it's not unreasonable to use Obi-Wan's robes as a basis for the Jedi uniform. It's dumb, yes, but not unreasonable.

Oh, it's certainly reasonable, and you can find stuff in the original trilogy to support it. It might even be the best design choice. Warrior monks with mystic powers have their own cinema history, after all.

But it's precisely because this kind of writing uses the surface of the original material as a fixed baseline that I think it's a bit sloppy. Empire is a good sequel because it adds new stuff that is consistent with but not dependent on the original. Phantom, in contrast, is dependent on the original, even in plot structure, and the new elements are inconsistent. Good sequel writing requires the writer to engage with the spirit of the original and come away with a new insight that deepens both the sequel and the original. Bad sequel writing is a cargo-cult invocation of the elements of the original, hoping that sympathetic magic will allow lightning to strike twice.

There were a lot of decisions in Phantom that are like that, and very few that revisit any of the core principles that were behind the original trilogy. Which is a bit odd, because lots of those original principles were widely discussed in the thirty years after Star Wars.

McIrishJihad wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Exactly! Similarly, why is Tatooine so important? Uncle Owen could easily have immigrated there to get away from the wars, so there was no real reason for Anakin to have any connection to the place.

Well, at the very least, Anakin appears in robes like Kenobi's at the end of Return of the Jedi. That would suggest some sort of connection between either Anakin and Tatooine or those robes and the Jedi order.

Or that Lucas has trouble not writing fan-fiction, since that's also the film that thought that the best way to replace Wookies was to cut them in half and flip the name around to make them Ewoks. (I mean, seriously: E-wok, Wook-E.)

I'm so glad I'm not the only person who thinks about that...

Mind. Blown.

Got these at Disney,
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Gremlin wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I agree with you about Lucas' writing abilities. But if you're using the original trilogy as a fixed base line, it's not unreasonable to use Obi-Wan's robes as a basis for the Jedi uniform. It's dumb, yes, but not unreasonable.

Oh, it's certainly reasonable, and you can find stuff in the original trilogy to support it. It might even be the best design choice. Warrior monks with mystic powers have their own cinema history, after all.

But it's precisely because this kind of writing uses the surface of the original material as a fixed baseline that I think it's a bit sloppy. Empire is a good sequel because it adds new stuff that is consistent with but not dependent on the original. Phantom, in contrast, is dependent on the original, even in plot structure, and the new elements are inconsistent. Good sequel writing requires the writer to engage with the spirit of the original and come away with a new insight that deepens both the sequel and the original. Bad sequel writing is a cargo-cult invocation of the elements of the original, hoping that sympathetic magic will allow lightning to strike twice.

There were a lot of decisions in Phantom that are like that, and very few that revisit any of the core principles that were behind the original trilogy. Which is a bit odd, because lots of those original principles were widely discussed in the thirty years after Star Wars.

Interesting point. Buy really? Nothing new was added that shed new light on the original movies? Have we forgotten about midichlorians?

DSGamer wrote:

Interesting point. Buy really? Nothing new was added that shed new light on the original movies? Have we forgotten about midichlorians?

*Jedi mind wave* You no longer remember about midichlorians.
*Jedi mind waves at self*

DSGamer wrote:

Interesting point. Buy really? Nothing new was added that shed new light on the original movies? Have we forgotten about [MESSAGE REDACTED]?

You shut your dirty mouth.
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Lucas always was good at inspiring emotion.

They'd be quite wise to start the next opening crawl: "Qui Gon was full of sh*t."

Gremlin wrote:

Lucas always was good at inspiring emotion.

The acting in the prequels beg to differ.

ccesarano wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Lucas always was good at inspiring emotion.

The acting in the prequels beg to differ.

What, it didn't make you angry?

Quintin_Stone wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Lucas always was good at inspiring emotion.

The acting in the prequels beg to differ.

What, it didn't make you angry? :)

No, but apathy is also an emotion!

I'm sure this has been posted before, but every once in a while I re-watch it because I want to remind myself that Episode I could have been a great movie with a few minor tweaks;

Maybe not minor, but there's a great movie somewhere inside Episode I.

Plinkett had some good ideas about the prequels. If you can look past his jokes about kidnapping.

Grenn wrote:

Plinkett had some good ideas about the prequels. If you can look past his jokes about kidnapping.

You'll note that Plinkett is Red Letter Media, and the preceding video is Belated Media. So if you haven't seen it yet, you're in for a treat.

Gremlin wrote:
Grenn wrote:

Plinkett had some good ideas about the prequels. If you can look past his jokes about kidnapping.

You'll note that Plinkett is Red Letter Media, and the preceding video is Belated Media. So if you haven't seen it yet, you're in for a treat.

I've seen them both. I didn't post Plinkett's because its really NSFW and also over an hour of critique for one movie.

Gremlin wrote:
Grenn wrote:

Plinkett had some good ideas about the prequels. If you can look past his jokes about kidnapping.

You'll note that Plinkett is Red Letter Media, and the preceding video is Belated Media. So if you haven't seen it yet, you're in for a treat.

Their regular movie reviewing show is pretty good, frequently lame bookending sketch stuff notwithstanding.

I also usually roll my eyes at "What the movie should have been" rants, but the prequels are such a train wreck, they're a bit more justified.

Darth and Droids webcomic also has a wonderful take on alternative storylines for the Star War universe. The whole comic is screenshots of the movies, but each character is a person roleplaying that character in a generic space RPG. Lots of inside jokes. Its absolutely fantastic

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I'm sure this has been posted before, but every once in a while I re-watch it because I want to remind myself that Episode I could have been a great movie with a few minor tweaks;

Maybe not minor, but there's a great movie somewhere inside Episode I.

I would watch that movie

Grenn wrote:

Darth and Droids webcomic also has a wonderful take on alternative storylines for the Star War universe. The whole comic is screenshots of the movies, but each character is a person roleplaying that character in a generic space RPG. Lots of inside jokes. Its absolutely fantastic

I still can't watch any of the prequels without jokes like "I summon bigger fish!" coming to mind.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I'm sure this has been posted before, but every once in a while I re-watch it because I want to remind myself that Episode I could have been a great movie with a few minor tweaks;

You know, I watched some of that, and I was surprised by how much of the actual movie I'd forgotten. My memory of Episode I had basically eroded to leave only pod racing and Jar-Jar Binks behind.