Nutrition and eating well group

I have to go for a set amount each day, and my dietician says 8-10 8 oz glasses. But that's because one of the symptoms of diabetes is being thirsty all the time, and I can't go ape with it because that's hard on the kidneys.

Had a couple of bad weeks. For a trip, we were pretty good on the diet at Penguincon. The food was high quality and relatively healthy. The trip to Big Boy and Culvers for the road trip, not so much.

Tuesday after we had a 4 course wine tasting dinner. FYI, steer clear of the 3 Pears Pinot Gris (just awful with strong fecal notes). 5-6 glasses of wine were consumed with a delectable stuffed portabello, a wonderful field salad with prawns, then lamb chops with 2x baked red skins, finished with a dessert pizza.

Saturday my fiancee was making pierogis-cheese and kraut. These are just large sheets of fatty dough full of cheese. Even better, her family likes to use a good helping of sugar in both. Odds of me eating any more are slim.

This last weekend was city chicken weekend-pork and veal breaded on a stick.

Can I just take a moment to bitch about my wife's family's obsession on sweets in all of their f*cking food? He sister adds cups of sugar into pasta sauce. The marscapone in a cannoli has less sugar in it than these god damned pierogis. And they were using a young farmer's cheese, it was pretty damn sweet to begin with. Adding sugar to things to make them taste more like sugar is not cooking! And as you continue to use a spoonful, or in this case a truck full of sugar to make the medicine or food or cheese dumplings go down, don't drag me into your diabetic hell.

Would it be bad form of me to sabotage the pierogis so they get ruined in the freezer before we can eat any more?

KingGorilla wrote:
Can I just take a moment to bitch about my wife's family's obsession on sweets in all of their f*cking food? He sister adds cups of sugar into pasta sauce. The marscapone in a cannoli has less sugar in it than these god damned pierogis. And they were using a young farmer's cheese, it was pretty damn sweet to begin with. Adding sugar to things to make them taste more like sugar is not cooking! And as you continue to use a spoonful, or in this case a truck full of sugar to make the medicine or food or cheese dumplings go down, don't drag me into your diabetic hell.

Would it be bad form of me to sabotage the pierogis so they get ruined in the freezer before we can eat any more?

It's war, man, and your body is the battlefield. Do what must be done.

I started having Weetabix for breakfast. This replaces my usual breakfast of two fried eggs with toast and cheese. Now, I still have eggs, but they're hard-boiled (mostly for the convenience factor). Add to that some low-fat milk, a little honey, and you have my new favorite breakfast. It's great after a workout, too! After a few days of this, I feel just as satiated for just as long (I can usually go 5-6 hours before I start to feel tummy-grumbling hungry). That factor is important - on work days, I may not have time to grab a small meal or even a snack for a while, so I need something filling to start the day.

I've also been bringing carrots and broccoli heads to work as a snack. Dipped in vegetable hummus, they're quite tasty!

Rehydration.

Is coconut water better than your bog standard hydrogen oxygen mix?

I was wondering why it had been so popular at my place of work, and then I caught the side of it making those claims in the spin. Just wondering if it's marketing crap, or if anyone else had heard about this?

Also, pomegranate seems to be this season's goji berries. Everywhere I look now, pomegranate is infused in it somehow. WTF?

I've definitely seen the marketing hype about coconut water lately, based on what I've seen of it so far my take is that it may be better for you than a sugary sports drink but unless you have a legitimate electrolyte deficiency which you're somehow not meeting otherwise then clean water should do the job of hydration just fine. That said you may find you like the taste of coconut water and prefer it for that reason but personally I didn't find it justified the price.

Pomegranate has come and gone a few times over recent years, like Goji berries I have yet to see any unbiased scientific evidence that they're better for you than other colorful fruits and veggies. I really like the taste of pomegranate and when they're available I do add the occasional one to my diet but I do it for variety and flavor rather than buying into the whole "antioxidant power OVER 9000!" type stuff.

Good NEWS! We are giving away the pierogis to other people.

Ok, and my fiancee and a friend started a FB weight loss group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908...

Friend me up and ask me to invite you.
https://www.facebook.com/danielpbrent

krev82 wrote:
I've definitely seen the marketing hype about coconut water lately, based on what I've seen of it so far my take is that it may be better for you than a sugary sports drink but unless you have a legitimate electrolyte deficiency which you're somehow not meeting otherwise then clean water should do the job of hydration just fine. That said you may find you like the taste of coconut water and prefer it for that reason but personally I didn't find it justified the price.

This. If you're doing endurance sports, where electrolyte deficiency is actually a problem that you need to tackle, then the marketing hype holds some water (no pun intended). But if your workouts don't go longer than an hour at a time, two at the outside, it's unlikely that there's any tangible benefit. But it depends on your sweat rate - working at a high intensity on a hot day means you're losing electrolytes a lot quicker than an easy jog in 50 degrees.

For what it's worth, when I'm racing and training for triathlons, I only actively pay attention to electrolytes for long-ass sweat-a-thons, 3+ hours. Anything less than that doesn't really warrant it. For really long days or long races (my "good" half-ironman time was 6:30, my "bad" one was 7:30 - them's some long days ), I take electrolyte pills in addition to sports drink and water.

KingGorilla wrote:
Good NEWS! We are giving away the pierogis to other people.

Ok, and my fiancee and a friend started a FB weight loss group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908...

Friend me up and ask me to invite you.
https://www.facebook.com/danielpbrent

Hey now, the weight loss thread is that way. This is just the eat-less-sh*ttily thread. Peanut butter, chocolate, etc.

Alcohol, what is the best option?

I'm guessing 'avoidance', but if you were to partake of a social bevy, are there options that are better than others?

I had a beer with dinner this evening, and from a weight loss point of view, the taste didn't match the calories. I could try a low carb beer, but then there is that bloated feeling you get from beer anyway.

Are spirits a better option, if so, is it a case of the clearer the better (ie, vodka, better than bourbon/whiskey).

Red wine for the antioxidants?

What do you guys do when the opportunity or desire presents itself?

Low carb isn't going to change much when it comes to booze unless you've been mixing with coke or drinking those high sugar coolers perhaps. The main source of calories in booze is from the alcohol content itself as "1 gram of alcohol contains 7 calories" regardless of the source which puts it above protein and carbs (4 cal/gram) but below fat (9 cal/gram). The various drinks are just a matter of doing the math on the proof and volume then, and nutrition data shows no caloric difference between 40 proof vodka and 40 proof dark spirits. As a result regular beer is already fewer calories/fl oz than a typical wine and far less than a typical spirit.

However alcohol does other things to your system; it may make you feel hungrier (eat more), lethargic (exercise less), dehydrated(generally bad), have less self control not to break a diet(eat worse), and so on. Basically health wise if you're going to partake keep it very moderate, don't binge, avoid ending up in this thread.

krev82 wrote:
Low carb isn't going to change much when it comes to booze unless you've been mixing with coke or drinking those high sugar coolers perhaps. The main source of calories in booze is from the alcohol content itself as "1 gram of alcohol contains 7 calories" regardless of the source which puts it above protein and carbs (4 cal/gram) but below fat (9 cal/gram). The various drinks are just a matter of doing the math on the proof and volume then, and nutrition data shows no caloric difference between 40 proof vodka and 40 proof dark spirits. As a result regular beer is already fewer calories/fl oz than a typical wine and far less than a typical spirit.

However alcohol does other things to your system; it may make you feel hungrier (eat more), lethargic (exercise less), dehydrated(generally bad), have less self control not to break a diet(eat worse), and so on. Basically health wise if you're going to partake keep it very moderate, don't binge, avoid ending up in this thread.

Alcohol is almost exclusively metabolised by the liver directly to acetyl-CoA. It's not freely available as an energy source for the body's tissues except when marked over consumption causes the liver to release Ketone bodies. This is in keeping with the observation that moderate alcohol consumption is not a risk factor for weight gain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...

Note that moderate drinking is typically defined as less than 3 units in a day, so if you have the willpower to drink just a single glass or wine or have just 1 pint then you probably don't have to worry about your alcohol consumption.

Thanks guys, so if I'm reading this right, as long as the amount I consume flies under the radar, and it doesn't effect me negatively in terms of behaviour and consequence I can quite happily enjoy a glass of whiskey, straight up, as a way to relax on a Sunday evening.

That sounds quite civilized, thank you both very much.

Lets see if either of you can debunk another misconception for me.

When you drink, the body goes into damage control as it recognizes alcohol as a poison. It stops processing whatever other food you have in your stomach, and goes to work removing the 'bad stuff'. Food left during this process is put to one side, and becomes stored as fatty tissue to return to later, or not.

I was actually told this by a personal trainer, how full of sh*t were they, or were they spot on?

m0nk3yboy wrote:
Thanks guys, so if I'm reading this right, as long as the amount I consume flies under the radar, and it doesn't effect me negatively in terms of behaviour and consequence I can quite happily enjoy a glass of whiskey, straight up, as a way to relax on a Sunday evening.

That sounds quite civilized, thank you both very much.

Lets see if either of you can debunk another misconception for me.

When you drink, the body goes into damage control as it recognizes alcohol as a poison. It stops processing whatever other food you have in your stomach, and goes to work removing the 'bad stuff'. Food left during this process is put to one side, and becomes stored as fatty tissue to return to later, or not.

I was actually told this by a personal trainer, how full of sh*t were they, or were they spot on?

Everyone's body responds a little differently to alcohol so you have to pay attention to what your body tells you. And this will change over time with diet, stress level, activity level, age, and general health. But, yeah, your Sunday evening plan shouldn't be a problem.

One issue to keep in mind, however, is that alcohol can and will do bad things to your skin over time. Your genes play a big role here so some people will be more susceptible to skin damage than others.

m0nk3yboy wrote:
What do you guys do when the opportunity or desire presents itself?

One drink isn't likely to cause any problems no matter what it is. That said, I just listen to my body. Tequila is the only alcohol where I don't get tired afterwards, end up with a headache the next day, etc, so I tend to favor that. Sake (or rice-based alcohol in general) comes in a fairly close second in terms of negative side-effects for me, but good sake is much less prevalent.

Oh, regarding tequila, unless the bottle says "100% pure agave" on it it's only required to be something like 51% agave. So unless you're very particular about the tequila you drink it's likely almost half grain alcohol. So when I say tequila I mean 100% agave tequila only.

m0nk3yboy wrote:

When you drink, the body goes into damage control as it recognizes alcohol as a poison. It stops processing whatever other food you have in your stomach, and goes to work removing the 'bad stuff'. Food left during this process is put to one side, and becomes stored as fatty tissue to return to later, or not.

I was actually told this by a personal trainer, how full of sh*t were they, or were they spot on?


Nope. That's not really how it works.

In coming carbs are broken down to glucose in the gut and released directly in to the blood stream and can be immediately accessed as fuel by assorted tissues. Fats are broken down into chains of fatty acids and glycerol these are imported through the gut and realeased in to the blood packaged as chylomicrons. Chylomicrons start by delivering fats around the body, then any partially empty ones will eventually make their way to the liver and get processed/recycled. In the next step the liver repackages the remaining fats and exports them (as lipoproteins) back out in to the blood for use or storage.

These processes always happen roughly in that order irrespective of what alcohol you have or have not consumed.

Alcohol on the other hand diffuses from the gut in to the blood stream and affects any tissues it interacts with. The Liver however is the primary site of alcohol processing. Processing alcohol has significant non-linear effects on the mechanisms by which the liver handles fats, chylomicorns and lipoproteins. Alcohol may (or may not) increase you levels of High-denisty lipoprotein (commonly refered to as "Good Cholesterol"). But sufficient chronic over consumption of alcohol can completely overwhelm the system and cause liver cells to deposit the fats on site, leading to fatty liver disease/chirrosis.

I'm not aware of any kind of simple switching behaviour that alcohol might trigger and that kind of idea runs pretty counter to how cells and tissues, especially the liver (which is continually doing multiple task) are understood to work.

This is probably equally applicable to the weight loss thread;

With holiday season upon us do you let up on your diet or do you just keep the armament of polite ways to decline things at the ready and hold strong?

Thankfully my immediate family 'gets it' and they're the only people I'll be around over the break.

Doing the paleo thing actually has made this the easiest holiday ever. More meat please, and just avoid all the sides except the sweet potatoes and greens.

My family holiday get-togethers have involved restaurants for the last few years too, so I get off pretty much scot-free here.

I think it all depends. For this past thanksgiving, we went traditional but dialed down the portions. We had mashed potatoes, dressing, green bean casserole, but only enough for that day.

At other times I have gone healthy alternatives. Cornish game hens, with steamed veggies, summer salad, etc.

For me and mine, the point has been to learn to control the portions and prevent the binges. Because at the end of the day, you are going to take road trips where you need to stop at Burger King, you will forget to thaw dinner and need to order out, you will want to go out to a restaurant and a movie.

I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Gumbie wrote:
I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Been a while since I've worked with meat but perhaps turkey or some extra lean ground beef? Failing that you could try a range of bean based dishes.

krev82 wrote:
This is probably equally applicable to the weight loss thread;

With holiday season upon us do you let up on your diet or do you just keep the armament of polite ways to decline things at the ready and hold strong?

Thankfully my immediate family 'gets it' and they're the only people I'll be around over the break.

No, I let the bugger slide.

But I do that secure in the knowledge that as January rolls around, my activity level skyrockets as I transition from off-season back into scheduled 5-or-6-days-a-week training.

So, yeah, I've put 15lbs on over the winter, but it'll melt back off again. [size=1]Hopefully[/size]

krev82 wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Been a while since I've worked with meat but perhaps turkey or some extra lean ground beef? Failing that you could try a range of bean based dishes.

Step 1, grill. This can be tough if you do not have a house. I suggest something like the Zojirushi Indoor Electric Grill at an apartment. Or go with some good raised grill cast iron.
Step 2 go lean-chicken breasts without skin, pork loin, turkey burger. Add in beans whenever possible as well-cheap and low fat. Fish can be pricy, but tilapia is normally affordable.

Gumbie wrote:
I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Get your legume on. Beans and lentils are both high-protein, low-fat, not to mention versatile.

KingGorilla wrote:
krev82 wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Been a while since I've worked with meat but perhaps turkey or some extra lean ground beef? Failing that you could try a range of bean based dishes.

Step 1, grill. This can be tough if you do not have a house. I suggest something like the Zojirushi Indoor Electric Grill at an apartment. Or go with some good raised grill cast iron.
Step 2 go lean-chicken breasts without skin, pork loin, turkey burger. Add in beans whenever possible as well-cheap and low fat. Fish can be pricy, but tilapia is normally affordable.

I like step 1. A lot of non-essential fat (cooking oils, sprays, etc) can add to the original product. Non-stick fry pans are also a good option, as well as aerosol based olive oils. I find a very light spray from an aerosol based spray uses/adds far less to the cooking experience that a careful 'glug' from a bottle. Coverage is also great.

krev82 wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
I'm looking for meals that aren't necessary low calorie but are low fat. So far the only thing I'm finding is fish, fish, grilled chicken, or fish. Any other ideas?

Been a while since I've worked with meat but perhaps turkey or some extra lean ground beef? Failing that you could try a range of bean based dishes.

Bison!

Tofu if you are a lady, Tofu once a month if you are a male.

KingGorilla wrote:
Tofu if you are a lady, Tofu once a month if you are a male.

The estrogen/isoflavones thing has been debunked unless you're having like 18 servings of soy every day.

Lots of good info. Thanks guys.

Next question, I have a horrible addiction to soda. Mt. Dew, Mellow Yellow, Dr. Pepper....it doesn't matter I love it all. I don't mind drinking water by itself, but I'm having a really hard washing down meals with water. It just feels...weird. Do I just need to suck it up and learn to drink water with meals or is there some sort of alternative to soda. Also I hate, HATE aspartame so diet anything is out of the question.

Well, it is a matter of quantities for men. If you are ingesting a large amount, regularly, you might have issues. What we are talking about are the guys cutting out dairy and drinking 2-3 glasses of Silk a day, along with a couple soy protein bars, adding in tofu salads and Turkey for dinner sorts of things. Just like heavy metal poisoning in fish, don't eat it constantly.

Getting the tofu as opposed to chicken pad thai won't make you sprout breasts.

KingGorilla wrote:
Well, it is a matter of quantities for men. If you are ingesting a large amount, regularly, you might have issues. What we are talking about are the guys cutting out dairy and drinking 2-3 glasses of Silk a day, along with a couple soy protein bars, adding in tofu salads and Turkey for dinner sorts of things. Just like heavy metal poisoning in fish, don't eat it constantly.

Getting the tofu as opposed to chicken pad thai won't make you sprout breasts.

I already have high estradiol levels from testosterone replacement therapy. I'm not touching something that could even remotely raise it more than it already is.