A personal announcement, emphatic thank-you, and cheers to Fedora.

Now he's even clocking his own biology.

Spoiler:

(Sorry, couldn't let that one go past—no one ever accused me of being tactful. Insert deadhorse.gif)

But more seriously. How damn amazing is this community, that a thread like this not only generates so much support but has encouraged others to confidently tell their stories as well, fueling a sort of perpetual support/encouragement machine? One day I'm afraid GWJ is going to meet the rest of the Internet, and everything will be annihilated in a matter/anti-matter-like reaction.

Well, we are all here to support all of you - regardless of the rest of the world!

ClockworkHouse wrote:
NSMike wrote:

"Why am I doing this? Is there a reason beyond my own satisfaction that I'm telling these people this? It almost seems unfair, and I wonder if it's even necessary."

...Later...

I know it'll also be worth it for you in the end. It will be so much better and so much more comfortable to live in your own skin in the way you want to. It's difficult and overwhelming now, and wouldn't we all love some kind of private chrysalis transformation that wasn't at all awkward or uncomfortable, but just keep in mind that you're driving toward something better and happier than what you have now.

Here's really what I was getting to. The obviousness of transitioning VS. coming out is really a no-brainer for how dramatically different they are in how you interact with the rest of the world, or more importantly, the world that you know, and the world that knows you. While I am out, I'm generally under the radar. I don't feel a need to out myself at work because, generally, it doesn't change my working relationship with anyone. I am not keeping myself in the closet, either, and I don't keep quiet if the subject comes up. I'm just not proclaiming it to the open world. The first few times I tried that, I was still very nervous about breaking through those barriers. The first time I held Jeremy's hand in public, when it wasn't just the two of us and someone else could see, I was tentative and nervous, and then immediately thrilled by the simple fact that I realized I could do that.

My doubts have long since been erased, both over time and thanks to experiences I've had in the intervening year. You can't really know exactly what it feels like to be comfortable in your own skin, as the person you are, until you go for it. And if you don't go for it because of other people, you're being unfair to yourself, everyone else be damned.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

So here's a socially awkward question that I'll ask here because although I don't think it's offensive (I don't really know the social rules surrounding trans transformations), I hope I'll be forgiven due to ignorance: how does being trans interact with sexual orientation?

Think of people as having three properties: sex, as in their biological sex; gender, as in how they perceive and present themselves; and orientation, as in which gender(s) they're attracted to. The properties are independent of each other, so you can be biologically male, identify as female, and be attracted to women, or you can be biologically male, identify as female, and be attracted to men.

As a male looking to switch, which gender is appealing to you? Is the end result to be a straight woman or a lesbian, or does that even enter into it?

I'm happily married and will remain with my wife, so I suppose I would be a lesbian post-transition. But in broader terms, every person is different. Some men looking to transition are attracted to men, and some are attracted to women.

Does orientation (being which gender you're attracted to) remain constant throughout the change?

For some people it does, and for some people it doesn't. I've read plenty of accounts that go both ways with some transwomen who were attracted to women before being attracted to men after, and others staying oriented in more or less the same was as prior to transition. I suspect that if nothing else transition moves people around a bit on the Kinsey Scale as the people who are attracted to them and flirtatious with them shift.

Gravey wrote:

Now he's even clocking his own biology.

I had hoped that would be among the first responses.

(Feel free to tell me to shut it. I'm just fascinated.)

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm happily married and will remain with my wife, so I suppose I would be a lesbian post-transition. But in broader terms, every person is different. Some men looking to transition are attracted to men, and some are attracted to women.

Does/has/will your transition change the way your wife sees her own orientation (or where she falls on the sliding scale)? I've gotta think that it could be... disconcerting, at least, to fall in love with someone who is one gender and then have that change midstream.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Some of you already know, but I'm also transsexual and am in the middle of making some big decisions about how and whether to transition.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/zYuM4.gif)

I am, once again, humbled by the trust everybody in this thread has shown, and how well the community has responded to honor that trust.

Cheering for all you folks, and happy to support however Mrs. Dim and I can.

Congrats, Clocky!

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Now he's even clocking his own biology.

I had hoped that would be among the first responses.

Risky joke was risky, but I hoped we'd have enough of a rapport.

And yes, of course, congrats! Wishing you the best of luck for your decisions, and am happy you and Hyp have this thread and community.

Wow... I had no idea, Clock, but good for you! I'm really happy to hear that your wife is fully supportive of you, as I can imagine that would be one of the biggest hurdles for someone who's married and TG.

As with everyone else who has come out as something other than cisgendered and heterosexual, we're rooting for you in being comfortable with who you are!

Oh, and as something that I haven't even thought of posting (which is neat in and of itself) -

It's very cool to me that my first thought on reading Clocky's post was, "Hm. Someone else. Neat.", that it wasn't something shocking or odd. It's neat that under that auspices of the Goodger banner there's some place comfortable enough for people, both announcing and being announced too, to take things that are this societally-abnormal as a matter of course, just another data point about the people that we like to hang out with.

Cheers to Goodgerdom, and cheers again to NSMike for starting the most excellent trend!

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Oh, and as something that I haven't even thought of posting (which is neat in and of itself) -

It's very cool to me that my first thought on reading Clocky's post was, "Hm. Someone else. Neat.", that it wasn't something shocking or odd. It's neat that under that auspices of the Goodger banner there's some place comfortable enough for people, both announcing and being announced too, to take things that are this societally-abnormal as a matter of course, just another data point about the people that we like to hang out with.

Cheers to Goodgerdom, and cheers again to NSMike for starting the most excellent trend! :drink:

I think you give me too much credit. I merely got to know a community that I figured out I could trust. The rest is up to all of you.

I add my voice to the congratulations and support, Clocky. I wish you the best on your journey.

Man, Adam, I'm really glad your wife is sticking by you. That's incredible.

I've got a good buddy that transitioned from female to male and had a bit of a shock during his hormone replacement therapy. Pre-transition, he identified as a lesbian and didn't expect that attraction to change. But, after his hormone therapy started kicking in, he found himself attracted to men. It's quite rare to have your sexual orientation to change after transitioning, but it does sometimes happen.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Some of you already know, but I'm also transsexual and am in the middle of making some big decisions about how and whether to transition.

*hug*! I kind of felt like you'd been hinting around the edges for a bit. I'm glad you felt able to share more openly.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

But it's hard to tell them before it happens because there will be that awkward time where I'm not living as a woman yet but will be; at the same time, waiting until it's a fait accompli I think would be very hurtful to some of them.

Right now, I can't help thinking about my dad. I've mentioned before, how I just don't expect him to take it well. I may also have mentioned that about the only time I visit my family is around the winter holidays, which is an... awkward time to stir up family drama. My sister apparently thinks that finding this out about me "will kill him", like literally he'll give up on life or something. I don't really understand that idea, it doesn't mesh with how I understand him at all. At the same time, I can see how it might wind up with him doing more self-destructive things (which he does have a tendency to do), which would be just as bad.

I don't know what I'm going to do, there. I do not feel that I can talk to him without being there in person. In person, there will be family drama. But I can't imagine waiting to tell him for a year after this one, some time. For one thing, by the end of 2013 my hope is that I will have been on hormones for about a year... and that's long enough that I don't think I'm likely to pass as a guy any more. So... I can tell him this year, probably just before I start hormones, or I can tell him next year, when it's pretty much a done deal. Messy. (And on the list of things to talk to my therapist about.)

And I also feel that I do owe it to him to tell him, and not just show up one day and say "Hey, I'm your daughter now!" I want to give him the opportunity to be better than I expect. I feel bad that pretty much everybody else in the family knows (not my niece and nephew, but my mom, my sister, and my brother-in-law), but he doesn't. I don't want to let that keep going on.

Messy.

NSMike wrote:

{ wisdom }

Thanks so much for sharing. Even though things are different, it helps a lot to hear about people working through the rough times and coming to a place where they feel comfortable. And that's part of what I talked about in the post where I really started talking about trans stuff, the "why is the T in LGBTQ?" question. It's different, but it is still so so helpful to feel like part of that larger community of people who have struggled with seeing themselves and being seen as "other".

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Does orientation (being which gender you're attracted to) remain constant throughout the change?

For some people it does, and for some people it doesn't. I've read plenty of accounts that go both ways with some transwomen who were attracted to women before being attracted to men after, and others staying oriented in more or less the same was as prior to transition. I suspect that if nothing else transition moves people around a bit on the Kinsey Scale as the people who are attracted to them and flirtatious with them shift.

Yeah, things can get kind of confusing. For myself, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to remain almost exclusively attracted to women. It's hard to say. I think some folks end up with a new understanding of their sexuality, and are open to different relationships than before. Some people experience a pretty marked shift in who they're attracted to. And to add complications, well... even though I'm currently interested in women, I also have an intense desire to be penetrated. (TMI? TMI.)

I think the short of it is that when you don't know who you are, it's [em]really[/em] hard to know how to parse sexual attraction.

The people, though, who you love and care about and want to spend all of your time with and cherish—the romantic loves, the bosom friends, the life-partners—that love is sufficient to go beyond any constraint, if you want it to.

But sexual attraction to random strangers? That's different, and harder to know what to expect.

Thanks for letting us provide a little support, Clocky. You know you and your wife always have friends here in Portland.

Trachalio wrote:

I've got a good buddy that transitioned from female to male and had a bit of a shock during his hormone replacement therapy. Pre-transition, he identified as a lesbian and didn't expect that attraction to change. But, after his hormone therapy started kicking in, he found himself attracted to men. It's quite rare to have your sexual orientation to change after transitioning, but it does sometimes happen.

I'm curious. Did he have bi tendencies before the transition? I don't know anyone who has transitioned and changed sexual orientation, so I'm finding this concept rather novel.

It is threads like this that make me super excited for PenCon. I can't wait to meet you wonderful people in person.

garion333 wrote:

I'm curious. Did he have bi tendencies before the transition? I don't know anyone who has transitioned and changed sexual orientation, so I'm finding this concept rather novel.

As far as I know, he was a full on lesbian before his transition, so no bi tendencies what so ever. Which is why it was a huge shock to him to find out he wasn't finding women attractive anymore.

For him it was a bit of a double whammy. A bunch of his lesbian friends thought he was "betraying" them by transitioning, and then even more felt that way after he stopped being attracted to women

SixteenBlue wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

It is threads like this that make me super excited for PenCon. I can't wait to meet you wonderful people in person.

*cough*Clocky needs to go*couch*

She was supposed to be my room-mate, but bailed on Minarchist and I. Tease.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

It's very cool to me that my first thought on reading Clocky's post was, "Hm. Someone else. Neat.", that it wasn't something shocking.

Hypatian wrote:

And to add complications, well... even though I'm currently interested in women, I also have an intense desire to be penetrated. (TMI? TMI.)

Thanks, Hyp. It's nice to know that I haven't lost the ability to be surprised at a post.

Clock, does that mean you'd rather be 'she' now?

SallyNasty wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

It is threads like this that make me super excited for PenCon. I can't wait to meet you wonderful people in person.

*cough*Clocky needs to go*couch*

She was supposed to be my room-mate, but bailed on Minarchist and I. Tease.

Total tease.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Thanks, Hyp. It's nice to know that I haven't lost the ability to be surprised at a post. :lol:

Always happy to help(?)

SallyNasty wrote:

It is threads like this that make me super excited for PenCon. I can't wait to meet you wonderful people in person.

*cough*Clocky needs to go*cough*

SallyNasty wrote:

It is threads like this that make me super excited for PenCon. I can't wait to meet you wonderful people in person.

Ditto. This thread always makes me smile!

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Does/has/will your transition change the way your wife sees her own orientation (or where she falls on the sliding scale)? I've gotta think that it could be... disconcerting, at least, to fall in love with someone who is one gender and then have that change midstream.

I'm going to decline to answer most of this as it's a pretty private topic, and I don't feel comfortable answering for her. I will say that she's handled the change remarkably well. Apparently it wasn't surprising to her in the least.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Clock, does that mean you'd rather be 'she' now?

That's a bit of a tricky question, actually. I still identify as male in all my day-to-day activities, so my inclination is to say to use "he" until I identify otherwise full time. On the other hand, it feels really nice to be called "she," and on the internet no one knows you look like a dog in a dress, so why not?

It's complicated.

Super Ditto. I don't pop in here too much to comment, but I love hearing the details and sharing in the support and giving of support. You wonderful people are part of what makes my days more happy, so any news that makes your days more happy is a wonderful thing to me.

This thread is incredible. While I understand that it's going to be really rough in some ways, I keep thinking how amazing it is that we live in a time where it's really possible to transition like that. Good luck, you two

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It's complicated. :)

Some conversation in IRC convinced me: call me "she". Even if it's not entirely accurate to how I present myself now, it'll (hopefully) be more accurate in the future and will give you all some time to adjust.