Pillars of Eternity Catch-All

The games use to randomly C2D all the time and there were a bunch of broken quests. I think it is totally fair to say they were buggy though coupled with the one part of my post you left out:

It wasn't like Arcanum or Temple level of broken.

The fact BG is being remade and including the 400 or so fixes community patches have pretty much screams buggy. I didn't say they were broken, but they definitely had their share of problems.

TheGameguru wrote:

I'm in for $250.. Love to see a really high budget (relative) isometric party based CRPG with some meat/depth to it.

Although it's a different kettle of fish, I wonder what the budget of the Spiderweb RPGs are.

Hurrah, made the goal early in the second day.

I wonder if they will have any stretch goals, that seems to really kickstart the community to get more support.

My first kickstarter. I am truly excited about this game.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

I wonder if they will have any stretch goals

Considering they reached their goal in a little over 24 hours, they would be foolish not to.

cube wrote:

Just so it's out of our system and we can actually talk about it:

Suggested stretch goals:

1. An ending.
2. QA

So true. They always seem to release games where the myriad of bugs keep them just shy of greatness.

I guess this is a question you can never really know the answer to, but kickstarters like this one really make me wonder about the various gaming markets. I know you can't make a direct equivalence between the kind of gamer that backs a kickstarter or buys the end product of one, and big budget AAA titles, but it really makes me wonder when many of the really successful ones are the kind that apparently not have an audience big enough to support an AAA one (and then there's big in-depth games like Skyrim 'winning' the christmas sales). I guess that comes down to risk, but there's got to be a significant amount of money that's being left on the table which is now being picked up.

Scratched wrote:

I guess that comes down to risk, but there's got to be a significant amount of money that's being left on the table which is now being picked up.

Agreed. And the best part (IMO) is that all of the money being picked up is going directly to the people who actually make the game.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

I wonder if they will have any stretch goals, that seems to really kickstart the community to get more support.

Obsidian is working on an update and their stretch goals, so I expect they will be public before too long.

Their stretch goals will be blown through in a few days or so. I don't think they were prepared for this response.

Icewind Dale 1&2 were pretty solid as far as bugs go.

Planescape had spotty performance issues I believe.

Nevin73 wrote:
cube wrote:

Just so it's out of our system and we can actually talk about it:

Suggested stretch goals:

1. An ending.
2. QA

So true. They always seem to release games where the myriad of bugs keep them just shy of greatness.

I think this is the way for them to prove something if it releases buggy and unpolished than they have no excuses but if it releases really good than that gives them more credibility. I supported them but am still wary of them as a developer.

Edit: corrected some spacing.

garion333 wrote:

Their stretch goals will be blown through in a few days or so. I don't think they were prepared for this response.

Definitely not, Sawyer said that they felt it was 50/50 on making their goal at all. Even with the positive history for games on Kickstarter, they were unsure about pitching a million dollar plus project when there have been so few.

Project Eternity Update wrote:

1.1 million, Base Goal – Achieved!
Base game includes three races, five classes, and five companions. We have ideas for these, but we want to hear your opinions on what you'd like to see. Stay tuned to Kickstarter, our website, and our forums to join in on the conversation.

1.4 million, New Playable Race, Class, and Companion!
Expands your options for character creation and adds a companion of the new class.

1.6 million, a Mac Version of Project Eternity and The Story Grows!
We've listened and we’ll make a Mac version of the game at this tier. We're also going to add a new major storyline along with new quests, locations, NPCs, and unique loot (special histories everyone?).

1.8 million, New Playable Race, Class, and Companion!
The options grow for your main character and the roster of your motley crew expands with the addition of a new companion from the selected class.

2.0 million, Player House!
Get your own house in the game that you can customize, store equipment in, and where your companions hang out, or, as the elves say, "chillax".

2.2 million, a new Region, a new Faction and another new Companion! And, dare we say it... ? LINUX!
Great news, everyone! For the Tarball Knights of Gzippia out there, we'll be adding Linux support!
Also, the world of Project Eternity grows in a major way with the inclusion of a whole new faction and the territory it holds. This adds new NPCs, quests, magic items, and hours of gameplay. And yes, you got it, another companion.

2.4 million and beyond! Coming Soon!

We've been listening to your feedback, and have the following announcements:

  • DRM Free: We are looking into it! Please check back for updates.
  • Digital Only Tiers are coming!
  • PayPal is coming asap. Please be patient!
  • New $5k Tier. We are looking into a new $5k tier since it sold out so quickly! We are looking into equivalent alternatives.

Yeah, I'm thinking they'll reach every one of those stretch goals ($2.2 million) by the end of this coming week, if not sooner.

I'll consider when they hit the Mac tier. It happened with Double Fine, so I hope it will happen here.

Pah, I was in before this went viral

So, even with 300+ games on Steam I am already building a future pile: Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Broken Sword and now this. Oh capitalism, you always have another ace up your sleeve.

I don't like those stretch goals. Instead of going bigger, I wish they put more effort into what they already had planned. It's not like they ever had to scrape anything out of the game because they couldn't get it done on time. But I'm guessing that's too vague of a goal to get people excited about.
Also, they missed great opportunity to get cheeky and just say "okay, so $1.5 million gets you dev tools to extract all that unused dialogue and locations, $2 million gets you an actual ending."

I'm not sure if I want to back it, now that they don't need my money and stretch goals look bleak. Still, I'm almost certain that I'm going to play it. I'd like to know how polished product it's going to be - can you make something on par (visually, with good UI, music, depth, dialogue, scale) with BG2 or, dare I say it, Planescape for 2 million?

edit: What the hell, enough with being grumpy. IE games are one of my fondest memories of early teenage years. Backed!

UCRC, that is one of the best posts I have ever read. You managed to have a conversation and talk yourself down.

I'm not sure what the stretch goals could be. Basically means they can hire more people to get more stuff done. It looks to me like they have what they have planned is attainable with who they have and the extra money allows them to hire more writers to handle the new companions side-by-side with the other writers/developers.

Maybe the next tier should have been a pledge to hire more QA guys:)

Visually I thought it would be on par with Dungeon whatsitscalled game they released a while back

Brownypoints wrote:

Maybe the next tier should have been a pledge to hire more QA guys:)

Visually I thought it would be on par with Dungeon whatsitscalled game they released a while back

Dungeon Siege 3. Their most stable game to date. Honestly, I just beat it and that game is 100% compentant. It's not interesting in the same ways their others are but I had a lot of fun with it. I thought the pacing was surprisngly fantastic in terms of actuall I beat it before I got tired.

I always got the impression that it wasn't a lack of QA guys but rather they always run out of time either due to publisher pressure, engine jankiness (Fallout: New Vegas), or just poor time management. I'm hoping with setting their own time, free of a publisher, and using a, hopefully, simpler engine they can release another bug-free game. Dungeon Siege 3 proved they can do it, now they need to not sacrifice their creativity for polish.

Scratched wrote:
Vector wrote:
Brownypoints wrote:

Maybe the next tier should have been a pledge to hire more QA guys:)

Visually I thought it would be on par with Dungeon whatsitscalled game they released a while back

Dungeon Siege 3. Their most stable game to date. Honestly, I just beat it and that game is 100% compentant. It's not interesting in the same ways their others are but I had a lot of fun with it. I thought the pacing was surprisngly fantastic in terms of actuall I beat it before I got tired.

I always got the impression that it wasn't a lack of QA guys but rather they always run out of time either due to publisher pressure, engine jankiness (Fallout: New Vegas), or just poor time management. I'm hoping with setting their own time, free of a publisher, and using a, hopefully, simpler engine they can release another bug-free game. Dungeon Siege 3 proved they can do it, now they need to not sacrifice their creativity for polish.

The other factor with that game is the different publisher, Eidos/Square who in recent history have put out games with reliable quality and extensions to a project to projects to allow that.

Complete derailment, but I am absolutely thrilled with the job that Eidos/Square has done as a North American publisher.

I do want to reiterate that DS3 isn't a very good game. It is an okay game that plays within itself and has little ambition. Its quality is unique among Obsidian's library, however. Being their most recent release I am encouraged by that step. I think the South Park RPG will be more telling.

One thing to remember, Obsidian is currently already working on two games (South Park and Wheel of Time) as well as contributing to Wasteland 2. I have no idea how these projects will affect Project Eternity.

Thanks for quoting my half-awake writing.

Vector wrote:
Brownypoints wrote:

Maybe the next tier should have been a pledge to hire more QA guys:)

Visually I thought it would be on par with Dungeon whatsitscalled game they released a while back

Dungeon Siege 3. Their most stable game to date. Honestly, I just beat it and that game is 100% compentant. It's not interesting in the same ways their others are but I had a lot of fun with it. I thought the pacing was surprisngly fantastic in terms of actuall I beat it before I got tired.

I always got the impression that it wasn't a lack of QA guys but rather they always run out of time either due to publisher pressure, engine jankiness (Fallout: New Vegas), or just poor time management. I'm hoping with setting their own time, free of a publisher, and using a, hopefully, simpler engine they can release another bug-free game. Dungeon Siege 3 proved they can do it, now they need to not sacrifice their creativity for polish.

The other factor with that game is the different publisher, Eidos/Square who in recent history have put out games with reliable quality and extensions to projects to allow that.

However, without a publisher, if they run out of money, they have to ship it -- there's not really a method to ask for more money because the game is running longer than they thought.

Icewind Dale 1&2 were pretty solid as far as bugs go.

They were probably the best of the Infinity Engine games, but a lot of that was because there wasn't much plot -- the Icewind Dales are tactical combat simulators, the Fallout Tactics of D&D. They have just enough of a plot to move you from challenging fight to challenging fight. Without the insane complexity of Baldur's Gate, there was less to go wrong.

The earlier games were much worse. Early on, the Infinity Engine itself had problems, and took a lot of debugging to really fix it up. They never did solve pathfinding all that well. (admittedly, pathfinding is an extremely difficult problem, which is why it's so common for RTSes to have issues there.) You can work around it by raising the search nodes parameter a whole bunch in the tuner utility, but it just isn't very good.

Once they got the engine stabilized, then there were tons of little script errors and problems -- many of which were never officially fixed. The BG2 Fixpacks, IIRC, repair many many many bugs that were never addressed by the original devs.

When you're dealing with the sheer number of interactions possible between hundreds of different non player characters, bugs and oversights are almost certain to arise. It takes a ton of playtesting to find those weird corner cases, and I'm not sure they're going to have the manpower for that. You pretty much have to pay QA people, because the job is dreadful, and I dunno how much budget they're going to have.

'Course, if they make a really awesome story, even if it's buggy, I suppose fans might take the time to fix it up, like they did with Baldur's Gate.

I also have to say that April 2014 is an awfully, awfully short dev cycle, when they're having to invent their rules system, their games engine, and their storyline all at once. I suspect these guys are extremely passionate and desperately want to do this kind of game again, but even with the modern toolsets making them more productive, they still have to know what to produce, and that takes time.

Oh, if it's not clear, I totally kicked in at the $35 level -- I'd have gone $50 if there was a tier I liked, and might still adjust it. I'm in, absolutely, but I think either they're too optimistic about what they can make by April of 2014, or we are.

Vector wrote:

UCRC, that is one of the best posts I have ever read. You managed to have a conversation and talk yourself down.

I was reading interview with Fergus simultaneously with writing this post and could see my resistance waning even as I was writing In the end I thought to myself that there has to be something really wrong with myself if I don't want to get behind what has been my biggest dream about PC gaming - big studios reviving beautiful 2D games in spirit of 90s.
Still, sig'd!

Re: other projects interfering with game development: In interview he mentions that core team is small, I'm guessing they have the resources. Engine and mechanics of it all are probably less time-consuming part, and now that they have the extra money, they're in position to hire more writers and art people.
I'm also guessing that with modern tools production of art for IE-style game has to be really streamlined and simple and it's reasonably smaller than effort that went into creating, say, BG2 locations.

Scratched wrote:

Thanks for quoting my half-awake writing.

You're welcome! I'm fighting a massive headache and dizziness so I'm only half aware of what I am even saying.

Malor wrote:

I also have to say that April 2014 is an awfully, awfully short dev cycle, when they're having to invent their rules system, their games engine, and their storyline all at once. I suspect these guys are extremely passionate and desperately want to do this kind of game again, but even with the modern toolsets making them more productive, they still have to know what to produce, and that takes time.

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a lot of that stuff worked out but need to implement and refine it. Chris Avelone, especially, is an obsessive motherf*cker. I would be shocked if he didn't have a folder filled with game system and story ideas.

UCRC wrote:

Re: other projects interfering with game development: In interview he mentions that core team is small, I'm guessing they have the resources. Engine and mechanics of it all are probably less time-consuming part, and now that they have the extra money, they're in position to hire more writers and art people.
I'm also guessing that with modern tools production of art for IE-style game has to be really streamlined and simple and it's reasonably smaller than effort that went into creating, say, BG2 locations.

Figured as much. Hence the nature of their stretch goals.

Edit: And I've been sigged!

If there was a stretch goal that said "no elves, dwarves, etc." I'd spend every penny I have to reach that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a lot of that stuff worked out but need to implement and refine it. Chris Avelone, especially, is an obsessive motherf*cker. I would be shocked if he didn't have a folder filled with game system and story ideas.

Yeah, reading interview in GameBanshee he makes it clear that they're a) already working on actual game engine, b) have most of mechanics of RPG elements figured out.

Interesting to note that a lot of companies (especially larger ones) are using Kickstarter to generate interest in games publishers won't normally go for and using their success as leverage to secure publisher funding.

So you make a couple million on Kickstarter and then get another ten from a publisher. Having your own capital up front helps do things like keep your own IP and work out an equitable deal. As far as systems for publisher/developer relations, it's a pretty good one.