Bastion Catch-all (now coming to iPad)

garion333 wrote:
Strangeblades wrote:
Hyetal wrote:

That is an odd decision. Do you feel as if you chose poorly when it came to the upgrades?

This might be spoilery for those who haven't progressed this far.

Spoiler:

Here's the thing. I am now on the second stage of the first playthrough (The Kid) and I just unlocked more upgrades for all my weapons. Expensive upgrades. And I've already spent money on weapon upgrades I was just feeling out. And now I've got the buyer's remorse.

Money isn't an issue. Turn on some idols and you'll get tons more money. Or grind in the memory things or whatever they're called.

I wouldn't recommend starting over.

Edit: Plus they keep giving you MORE weapons. ;)

It's typical of me to go back to the beginning once I get the hang of a game. I started Mass Effect twice before I was comfortable with what I was doing. Then I restarted a third time and had a grand old game.

Bastion didn't click for me until six-seven hours in and now that I've got the hang of the game I want to start at the start. Plus this game is gorgeous and beautiful to listen to.

garion333 wrote:
Strangeblades wrote:
Hyetal wrote:

That is an odd decision. Do you feel as if you chose poorly when it came to the upgrades?

This might be spoilery for those who haven't progressed this far.

Spoiler:

Here's the thing. I am now on the second stage of the first playthrough (The Kid) and I just unlocked more upgrades for all my weapons. Expensive upgrades. And I've already spent money on weapon upgrades I was just feeling out. And now I've got the buyer's remorse.

Money isn't an issue. Turn on some idols and you'll get tons more money. Or grind in the memory things or whatever they're called.

I wouldn't recommend starting over.

Edit: Plus they keep giving you MORE weapons. ;)

Ugh. More weapons. I find that annoying. Especially when I've kitted out my sweet machete and musket and then having to play a level with an underpowered toy I feel I have to pick up. Agh. I wish I could pick up the new hotness and be given a choice in using it immediately or having it stored back at the Bastion.

Also my favourite part of the game is the fighting - the dodging, dropping mines, throwing grenades and switching between machete swings, machete tosses or musket blasts. I wish Diablo had this kind of sensibility. There is a great acrobatic feel - it feels almost like an isometric brawler more than a Diablo-click fest.

EDIT: Ooo, ooo. I remembered something else I like. Is it just me or does this game feel like a Sergio Leone western? The Kid. The Singer. The Survivor. The theme of an empty place, the lone wanderer, and Mr. Super-Raspy Narrator guy who I love.

Bastion gives you a lot of incentive to play their NewGame+. I recommend pushing through for narrative purposes. Also, the NewGame+ allows you to keep all your weapons and upgrades, so you can play even more how you like. If you're 6 or 7 hours in I imagine you're basically at the end.

Gah! All this talk is making me want to get it on Steam. Booting up my 360 is the only thing I dislike about Bastion

garion333 wrote:

Bastion gives you a lot of incentive to play their NewGame+. I recommend pushing through for narrative purposes. Also, the NewGame+ allows you to keep all your weapons and upgrades, so you can play even more how you like. If you're 6 or 7 hours in I imagine you're basically at the end.

QFT. Don't restart, finish the game and do a New Game+ run. You'll be able to play around with weapon loadouts all you want in New Game+.

muttonchop wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Bastion gives you a lot of incentive to play their NewGame+. I recommend pushing through for narrative purposes. Also, the NewGame+ allows you to keep all your weapons and upgrades, so you can play even more how you like. If you're 6 or 7 hours in I imagine you're basically at the end.

QFT. Don't restart, finish the game and do a New Game+ run. You'll be able to play around with weapon loadouts all you want in New Game+.

Is there a reason why I need to replay this game? Is it different the second time through?

Not different, but you keep everything you unlocked in the previous game so you can play around with different loadouts and crank up the difficulty with idols. Also, there are two different endings so you can choose the other one on your second playthrough.

If you're part way through and thinking about restarting so you can use a different weapon loadout, it just makes more sense to push through to the end (it's not a long game) and do a New Game+ run. That way you'll start with all the weapons, and you can tweak things however you want.

Also, if you're bothered by the game giving you a new weapon and being forced to use it, most levels that introduce a new weapon usually have an Armory in them somewhere so you can swap back to your preferred loadout.

They change up some of the audio cues in a NewGame+. Pretty subtle, but a nice touch. And if you missed any areas then you can find them/play them/etc.

For me what's great about the NewGame+ is that I used different weapons, but the entire narrative was much more deep and full. It all made a ton more sense and more real. Plus, it's fun to mess with the idols and ramp up the difficulty while being showered in crystals (or whatever they were).

Strangeblades wrote:

Bastion didn't click for me until six-seven hours in and now that I've got the hang of the game I want to start at the start. Plus this game is gorgeous and beautiful to listen to.

I'm pretty sure my first play through was only about 8 and a half hours (and that was with all challenges and everything upgraded at the end)

Just completed the game for the second time. It was pretty cool. I enjoyed the music the most even more than the writing and the action.

Strangeblades wrote:

Just completed the game for the second time. It was pretty cool. I enjoyed the music the most even more than the writing and the action.

Yeah, music is bomb.

Glad you didn't bail on that first playthrough.

garion333 wrote:
Strangeblades wrote:

Just completed the game for the second time. It was pretty cool. I enjoyed the music the most even more than the writing and the action.

Yeah, music is bomb.

Glad you didn't bail on that first playthrough.

Hurray! Good to hear. I'm so glad I bought the soundtrack edition.

Just finished my first play through. I enjoyed pretty much everything about this game.

Spoiler:

The Portal tie ins caught me by surprise.

Just finished my first playthru and bought the soundtrack because I had to and because I wanted to support the studio.

A really great game. Not perfect. They introduce a new movement mechanic at the very end, and don't get the mileage out of it they could have, for instance.

As for the final choice at end of the game:

Spoiler:

I chose not to reset the bastion, as well. Having gone through some of the fights in the dreamland — specifically the ones from taking a toke on the hookah — I learned more about The Kid's backstory and knowing that his family was dead and how much he'd already gone though, it seemed most logical to break the cycle and move forward. Plus, I picked up the body and carried it back to the bastion, so it seemed to be the logical final step.

I rarely do this, but I'm probably going to go back and do the game+ mode.

lostlobster wrote:

A really great game. Not perfect. They introduce a new movement mechanic at the very end, and don't get the mileage out of it they could have, for instance.

Now that I've had time to think on it, I wonder whether this doesn't have something to do with financing and getting the feature in the engine or something. Or it could just be a misstep. Either way, I agree that it really doesn't add to the game and probably should have been left out.

Spoiler:

I know there was some grouching about the ram as well, but I think it arguably makes sense in the game; by this point they want you to see The Kid as the Ura do, forcing you to play as a lumbering but overpowered bringer of death. It makes it much harder to avoid taking some damage but in a way it fits the image to have you just lumbering forward soaking up arrows. There are still reasonable arguments about it from a gameplay perspective, but unlike the jumping mechanic I can at least see the benefit.

beeporama wrote:
Spoiler:

I know there was some grouching about the ram as well, but I think it arguably makes sense in the game; by this point they want you to see The Kid as the Ura do, forcing you to play as a lumbering but overpowered bringer of death. It makes it much harder to avoid taking some damage but in a way it fits the image to have you just lumbering forward soaking up arrows. There are still reasonable arguments about it from a gameplay perspective, but unlike the jumping mechanic I can at least see the benefit.

Spoiler:

What's to complain about the ram? Unlike the Hop Scotch, the ram is integral to the game. Part of the reason is what you point out, and it's also to make the choice to save Zulf that much more difficult—saving Zulf means giving up this super weapon, when (if it's your first play) it looks like there's going to be the final major boss battle on the other side of that door.

Then if you do drop the ram and pick up Zulf, you see how your movement is dramatically slowed and you can't use anything except potions—oh shhhiiiiiii— Then the song kicks in, you play out the sequence, and you realize you absolutely made the right choice. You aren't rewarded for that choice with power, the way games typically reward you; of course, you gave up power. But you see how affecting that choice was and having the ram in the game was the way to show that.

I agree with you Gravey. Especially the oh shhhiiiii part.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I agree with you Gravey. Especially the oh shhhiiiii part.

Spoiler:

During your walk out with Zulf over your shoulder you take some hits and you wonder if this game is gonna kill you and then end. And then it doesn't end. In fact everyone there stops shooting you and simply watches you walk away. When you make a hard left turn with Zulf still on your shoulder I noticed I got shot by a guy on the right, but he was then cut down by a swordsman. And then I made another realization. This crowd of Ura might have become impressed by your actions and your insistence in saving one of their own despite the threat to your own life. And in doing this they allow you and Zulf to leave unharmed.

Gravey wrote:
Spoiler:

You aren't rewarded for that choice with power, the way games typically reward you; of course, you gave up power. But you see how affecting that choice was and having the ram in the game was the way to show that.

Spoiler:

The game does an amazing job of painting that picture, but I wonder how much power you're really giving up from a raw, abstract game mechanics point of view. Is it actually possible to lose once you pick up Zulf? Do you have to make it in a certain distance before the enemies will stop firing, or do they stop once you're out of potions regardless of where you are?

The game certainly does a good job of making you *feel* powerless, and making you feel like your actions still matter though. The first little bit where the enemies are chipping away at the cover certainly made me think there was still a bit of gameplay there, but once things started to thin out I wasn't so sure. Of course by that point the story had me along for the ride; I can cynically poke at the end sequence later without ruining anything for myself.

One thing I'll say for sure, Bastion is a good example of a game that gets the total experience right. What made it so enjoyable wasn't the excellent gameplay, story, art, or music. It was how all of those things came together into the final product.

Strangeblades wrote:
Spoiler:

During your walk out with Zulf over your shoulder you take some hits and you wonder if this game is gonna kill you and then end. And then it doesn't end. In fact everyone there stops shooting you and simply watches you walk away. When you make a hard left turn with Zulf still on your shoulder I noticed I got shot by a guy on the right, but he was then cut down by a swordsman. And then I made another realization. This crowd of Ura might have become impressed by your actions and your insistence in saving one of their own despite the threat to your own life. And in doing this they allow you and Zulf to leave unharmed.

Spoiler:

Oh snap, I'm glad I made this post, because I hadn't noticed any of that. I had enough potions (was using the spirit that allows you to carry extra and was maxed out) to make it through.

Considering how effective the ram is if you keep it (I noticed that using it causes whole areas to collapse killing multiple Ura) I assume the final sequence is purely for effect, and that they won't let you die. You are either being rewarded emotionally with feeling like a real hero or a real badass, depending on your choices.

By the way: I played through every permutation of the ending, and if you save Zulf AND choose to go forward, the ending montage of pictures includes a scene of a bandaged-up Zulf cooking. They just quietly omit that picture if you didn't save him and choose to go forward.

beeporama wrote:
Strangeblades wrote:
Spoiler:

During your walk out with Zulf over your shoulder you take some hits and you wonder if this game is gonna kill you and then end. And then it doesn't end. In fact everyone there stops shooting you and simply watches you walk away. When you make a hard left turn with Zulf still on your shoulder I noticed I got shot by a guy on the right, but he was then cut down by a swordsman. And then I made another realization. This crowd of Ura might have become impressed by your actions and your insistence in saving one of their own despite the threat to your own life. And in doing this they allow you and Zulf to leave unharmed.

Spoiler:

Oh snap, I'm glad I made this post, because I hadn't noticed any of that. I had enough potions (was using the spirit that allows you to carry extra and was maxed out) to make it through.

Considering how effective the ram is if you keep it (I noticed that using it causes whole areas to collapse killing multiple Ura) I assume the final sequence is purely for effect, and that they won't let you die. You are either being rewarded emotionally with feeling like a real hero or a real badass, depending on your choices.

By the way: I played through every permutation of the ending, and if you save Zulf AND choose to go forward, the ending montage of pictures includes a scene of a bandaged-up Zulf cooking. They just quietly omit that picture if you didn't save him and choose to go forward.

This is the weirdest thread. Whole posts that are invisible.

Anyhoo.

Spoiler:

I love the ending to move on with the timeline. To live with the consequences. It reminds me of the Walking Dead comic series. Making do with what you got. It seems to be a greater crime to go back and undo all that has happened.

Finished this yesterday. Absolutely amazing game and the gameplay complexity they achieved with just 5 actions (dodge, block, weapon 1, weapon 2 and super skill) and the modular upgrade system (shrine, armory and distillery) gives me hope for the whole ARPG genre. As stated before, the entirety of this game should be viewed as a prime example that videogames can indeed be art.

My only gripe was the crass change in gameplay towards the end. The "jumping puzzle" felt out of place and as someone who played the entire game using a nimble style of machete, repeater and dodging, I didn't appreciate the ram much.

Due to the size of my pile and my ever shrinking spare time, I'll hold off on a 2nd playthrough.

Be Heartening: A Bastion Interview

Artful dungeon-crawler Bastion charmed us with its strange world, solid combat mechanics, and elegant narration. John loved it. It even inspired Alec to a big old cleverthink. I decided to have a chat with Greg Kasavin, creative director and writer on the project, to find out a bit more about how Bastion came to be, and what the future holds.

An interview from the RPS site.

Wife's heading out of town for a couple days.

PC or XBLA?

Would you play on PC with a controller? If so it probably doesn't matter unless you care about achievements. If not, definitely XBLA.

The PC version is gorgeous at 1920x1080. You can plug in your 360 controller and use that if desired. However, I found the keyboard/mouse controls to be easier and better to use. Some people disagree with this for reasons I'm not sure about, but you have a lot more control of your aim when you don't want to lock on to something. It barely works to aim at something manually with the 360 controller because that control is bound to the right thumbstick which you can't access while hitting the firing buttons. It's a setup that forces you to lock on.

I set up a macro for a "rapid fire" right click which allows you to dominate with pistols. That's sort of cheating, but it was fun for me.

You can get the version on Steam that's bundled with the soundtrack. The soundtrack is well worth buying.

For those who are saying that mouse/keyboard doesn't work well with Bastion, please elaborate.

wordsmythe wrote:

Wife's heading out of town for a couple days.

PC or XBLA?

Absolutely doesn't matter outside of your preference. Soundtrack is worth getting, though.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

For those who are saying that mouse/keyboard doesn't work well with Bastion, please elaborate. ;)

To be honest, I just assumed based on the style of gameplay. If they made it work well then just add that to the pile of reasons this game is incredible.

The m/k has been tweaked in one of those patches. And that was a big improvement. Most complaints were solved with that.
So I'd go for the higher resolution and k/m.