NFL 2012 Draft Thread

garion333 wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

Oooh, I wonder if GB takes Courtney Upshaw. That would be cool.

No it wouldn't.

Well they didn't. So now you can have him!

edit: or not. trade.

Jeff-66 wrote:
garion333 wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

Oooh, I wonder if GB takes Courtney Upshaw. That would be cool.

No it wouldn't.

Well they didn't. So now you can have him!

edit: or not. trade.

Yawn.

Looks like they're targeting a G/C with Minny's 2nd round pick.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Mercilus? Not someone I would take before round 2. Seems like trying to fill Mario Williams' spot rather than taking best available talent. Merciless did nothing before his last year in school.

These guys grabbed JJ Watt last year in the 1st, and Brooks Reed in the 3rd. I trust their defense evaluation.

And took Kareem Jackson in the 1st and Earl Mitchell in the 3rd two years ago.

No Wade Philips two years ago. With Wade Philips, turned arounded defense instantly by drafting Watt and Reed and signing Joseph and Manning.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

No Wade Philips two years ago. With Wade Philips, turned arounded defense instantly by drafting Watt and Reed and signing Joseph and Manning.

Their defensive coordinator calls the personnel shots?

I wonder where that Wade defensive talent evaluation was when he was head coach for Dallas.

I like A.J. Jenkins. Earlier than most suspected but I liked him more than a lot of the other receivers with 2nd round grades.

Bucs should go for Coby Fleener.

Nope, they go RB. Doug Martin. A far cry from Richardson, but still a good off-season for them overall.

223 pounds on a 5-9 frame. Bucs draft a running back big enough to stand up to a LaGarrette Blount sucker punch. Good thing too, he'll need it.

Between Barron and Doug Martin, I'm near passing out with joy. A back who can help in the passing game?

Awesome draft so far.

I'm pretty happy with Jacksonville's move.

The consensus was that there were 6 "blue chip" players, and Jacksonville sat at pick 7.

It only cost them a 4th rounder to move up 2 spots and get one of those top 6 players, and at the position they needed him the most.

I would be less keen on the move if it had cost them more, but a 4th rounder was cheap. It's not the move I was expecting - I figured they'd target a receiver with their early round 2 pick - but after watching more Blackmon video, I felt like he belonged at pick #6. I'm fairly OK with taking him one spot too early.

The Pats had a nice first round.

The Browns didn't do what I wanted. Holmgren and Heckert must think Weeden and Richardson will turn the offense around immediately, but besides Joe Thomas, Mack, and hopefully Little there's nothing else. Eight more picks to go, though. At least Mayock seems to like what they did.

I think New England might have had the best 1st round. The Steelers got the best bang for the buck, IMO.

3 RB's in the 1st round is a bit surprising.

peedmyself wrote:

The Browns didn't do what I wanted. Holmgren and Heckert must think Weeden and Richardson will turn the offense around immediately, but besides Joe Thomas, Mack, and hopefully Little there's nothing else. Eight more picks to go, though. At least Mayock seems to like what they did.

I'm OK with Richardson, although I think the Vikings stuck it to them in the price for moving up one spot (a 4th, a 5th, and a 7th - makes the Jags' trade to move up to #5 look all the better price-wise).

Weeden, though... I mean, he has the right arm for a West Coast offense, I guess. Lord knows he's got a whole reel of 7 yard throws to show off. He can put more heat on the ball than McCoy. But I just have to ask, who else was really hot to trot to get into the Brandon Weeden business? Who were the Browns beating to the punch?

*Legion* wrote:

But I just have to ask, who else was really hot to trot to get into the Brandon Weeden business? Who were the Browns beating to the punch?

That was my question exactly. I thought it was a weird pick, and I know a lot of Cleveland fans are cussing tonight. Many of them didn't even want Richardson.

*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

No Wade Philips two years ago. With Wade Philips, turned arounded defense instantly by drafting Watt and Reed and signing Joseph and Manning.

Their defensive coordinator calls the personnel shots?

I'm pretty sure he's part of the evaluation process for defensive players. Or did you think teams give their coaches the week off during the draft?

*Legion* wrote:

Weeden, though... I mean, he has the right arm for a West Coast offense, I guess. Lord knows he's got a whole reel of 7 yard throws to show off. He can put more heat on the ball than McCoy. But I just have to ask, who else was really hot to trot to get into the Brandon Weeden business? Who were the Browns beating to the punch?

I'm hoping word gets out in the next few days that there was some interest out there, but I'm guessing they just wanted him too much to risk the wait. I wanted to give Colt a year with a better team to see what he's made of, but they must have seen enough, I guess. I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

I'm guessing OL, Fleener, WR or perhaps CB tomorrow.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

No Wade Philips two years ago. With Wade Philips, turned arounded defense instantly by drafting Watt and Reed and signing Joseph and Manning.

Their defensive coordinator calls the personnel shots?

I'm pretty sure he's part of the evaluation process for defensive players. Or did you think teams give their coaches the week off during the draft? :razz:

No, I just don't think he is where the credit belongs.

Nor, according to himself on Twitter, does he:

@texansfan2002114:
@sonofbum Did you single handed pick out players like JJ Watt and Brooks Reed? #Texans

@sonofbum:
@texanfan2002114 Rick Smith and Kub head up the draft. Coaches and scouts have various input

Looking at his Twitter feed, it sounds like he hardly gets involved in the draft process until April rolls around.

*Legion* wrote:

Nor, according to himself on Twitter, does he:

@texansfan2002114:
@sonofbum Did you single handed pick out players like JJ Watt and Brooks Reed? #Texans

@sonofbum:
@texanfan2002114 Rick Smith and Kub head up the draft. Coaches and scouts have various input

Looking at his Twitter feed, it sounds like he hardly gets involved in the draft process until April rolls around.

Dude, that's Wade Phillips. You know, stoic to a fault. What he's actually saying is this:

@sonofbum:
@texanfan2002114 Rick Smith and Kub head up the draft, but they couldn't do it without me as I'm the f-in man!! They only pick the players I coach them on! JJ Watt? I was all over that sheeeit!

Something like that.

That matches up pretty well to what I said in the first place:

Fedaykin98 wrote:

These guys grabbed JJ Watt last year in the 1st, and Brooks Reed in the 3rd. I trust their defense evaluation.

And anyway, what's he going to do, take all of the credit? Obviously the draft is run through people who are looking at the whole team, and not just defense.

Lastly, I don't believe he had a Twitter account until April rolled around. He's brand new to it.

peedmyself wrote:

I'm hoping word gets out in the next few days that there was some interest out there, but I'm guessing they just wanted him too much to risk the wait. I wanted to give Colt a year with a better team to see what he's made of, but they must have seen enough, I guess. I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

Colt's a good kid but his arm really is NFL bare minimum. He's the kind of guy you love to have as a backup QB.

Weeden has more arm, I'll give him that. But it's a bit like the Brady Quinn pick, trying to make a franchise QB out of a guy the rest of the league has decided isn't one.

That's why I'm OK with teams making bold moves to draft QBs early. You may miss, but the alternative is being like Cleveland and spending pick after pick trying to manufacture lesser guys into starting QBs. 3rd rounder on Charlie Frye, late 1st rounder on Brady Quinn, 3rd rounder on Colt McCoy, now another 1st rounder on Brandon Weeden.

Also notable that Watt, also on Twitter, credits Wade for believing in him enough to draft him.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

That matches up pretty well to what I said in the first place:

Fedaykin98 wrote:

These guys grabbed JJ Watt last year in the 1st, and Brooks Reed in the 3rd. I trust their defense evaluation.

And all I said was it's the same guys who took Kareem Jackson and Earl Mitchell in those spots the draft before. I don't think Wade Phillips, or most coordinators for that matter, make a very big impact in selecting personnel coming into the college draft. They spend their whole year watching NFL tape, not college tape.

I think Rick Smith and his scouts hold the lion's share of responsibility.

That doesn't discount 2011 (or 2009, for that matter - Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin in 1st and 2nd). Maybe they only hit their defensive picks on the nose in odd numbered years.

Lastly, I don't believe he had a Twitter account until April rolled around. He's brand new to it.

If by "April" you mean August 2009. Though his tweeting definitely started being more regular in February.

My bad, he took over a year off from Twitter, so this was the first time he's used it since coming to the Texans. Everyone around here acted like it was a new account.

In any case, we love us some Wade Phillips around here and believe he makes a big difference in picking defensive players. That may not be the case, but it's what everyone on the radio and talking Houston Texans around here seems to believe. Haven't heard anyone suggest his input is un-impactful, until you.

EDIT: You are killing me with your ninja edits today!

Coaches coach, personnel people handle personnel. It's a nice fan narrative that Wade Phillips swooped in and started hand-picking the defensive draft picks, but likely, and by his own words, that's far from reality. Coaches give input but they don't get involved until very late in the process - that process is going on during the year while they're busy coaching football games! I think the credit Phillips should receive should remain on the side he works on - coaching the personnel on the roster. But if there's indication that Phillips is involved to an extent above and beyond the relatively light involvement the coaching staff typically is, I'd love to hear it.

Short of that, I'll pin most of the blame & credit on Rick Smith, who, despite 2010's shortcomings, has done a pretty fine job of drafting, much better than Charlie Casserley. But being that he's the GM for a division rival, I am going to snipe at those misses all day long.

My wish list for the Jags the rest of the way:

* A pass rushing DE. I think that's a potential target for that early 2nd round pick. Someone like Courtney Upshaw or Vinny Curry? Or even one of the purely situational pass rusher types in the mid rounds, like a Cam Johnson.

* A right tackle. There'll be some possibilities with that 2nd round pick. Maybe Bobby Massie? Move Eben Britton and his short arms inside to guard.

* A center for the future. Brad Meester has a year or two left, but it's time to find the next guy. There'll be options around round 3.

* A late round developmental QB. Unless they think Dan LeFevour is someone to have stick around and keep developing, I'd like to see them target a guy to draft and develop.

* Above all, contributors at any position.

Psych wrote:
gizmo wrote:

Wow Chicago, you really just insist on getting Jay Cutler killed.

Reiff and DeCastro on the board and you reach for a linebacker.

I just about threw my chair at the wall when they passed up the chance to get some o-line help.

I knew they wanted a DE but with DeCastro on the board I would of liked that pick better.

I'm looking for a RT, a couple of WRs if possible, and some help at LB for the Browns over the next couple of days.

After that, hopefully a guard if there's one that can compete with our underwhelming group, a CB that has at least the potential to start in a year or two (Sheldon Brown is 33), rotational D linemen (particularly at DE). Eight more picks, if none get traded away. I wouldn't be too disappointed if they used some to move up, or even to stock up a bit for next year if that's where the value is.

After taking a look at what's left, I can see why they took Weeden when they did. They must have decided that he'd be their guy unless someone reached way too far, and figured that the WR and OL class was deep enough to get value in the second and third rounds. It was still too early, but there's definitely some depth there to hopefully adequately fill in some gaps.

Secret Asian Man wrote:
Psych wrote:
gizmo wrote:

Wow Chicago, you really just insist on getting Jay Cutler killed.

Reiff and DeCastro on the board and you reach for a linebacker.

I just about threw my chair at the wall when they passed up the chance to get some o-line help.

I knew they wanted a DE but with DeCastro on the board I would of liked that pick better.

I think the line will look a lot better with Gabe Carimi back and hopefully assuming the left tackle spot. J'Marcus Webb is much more suited to the right side.

Chris Williams missed a chunk of the season to injury too. I think the Bears do need to address right guard, and there'll be opportunities for that in the middle rounds.

The real key is Carimi coming back and establishing himself as a left tackle. J'Marcus Webb was way outmatched on the left side last year. He's a mountain, not a light-footed guy that keeps up with speed rushers.

peedmyself wrote:

After taking a look at what's left, I can see why they took Weeden when they did. They must have decided that he'd be their guy unless someone reached way too far, and figured that the WR and OL class was deep enough to get value in the second and third rounds. It was still too early, but there's definitely some depth there to hopefully adequately fill in some gaps.

I was trying to figure out who Weeden reminded me of as a passer, and then it hit me: David Garrard.

Garrard loved throwing those quick routes over the middle. He had the arm strength necessary to hit most of the route tree, but never really developed a threatening deep ball. Definitely at his best working the short to intermediate routes.

Still, in an offense suited to his throws, he could be quite productive. He'd probably still be an NFL starter if not for his tendency to play 58 minutes of excellent football and then a disastrous final 2 minutes.

Weeden won't make plays with his legs like Garrard, but hopefully for Browns fans, he won't throw those last-minute heartbreak interceptions, either.

According to the Jaguar beat writer Tania Ganguli's Twitter post: "Gene Smith says the market to trade down was as dead as reports said it was. Early on he thought it'd be better."