The Big Board-Gaming Catch-All

The only time I played the new netrunner was towards when it first came out and there were only a few packs released. I was at a store and the owner introduced me to a guy who was wanting someone to play it with. The guy was pleased as punch to show off all his cards and "teach" the game. Real cocky like. Told me how he would be playing with his custom deck, but since its my first time I would be using just the base, so as not to leave me overwhelmed and confused. I played the runner and he was the corp.

Ended up demolishing him. Like in a bad way. He asked if i wanted to play again. I said na, not my style. More i didnt want to play with him. Went back to the store a week or so later to have the owner laughing and telling me how after i left that day, the guy was complaining about me. Talking about how i must of been cheating. How i wouldnt let him play me fair and square for a second game. He was going easy on me since he was teaching.

Kinda soured me on the game. I have heard such great things about it, but it is so hard to separate a bad experience with something from that actual item itself.

Game companies like FFG will stop creating expansion-heavy games when we players stop purchasing them. But in every other boardgame thread (not necessarily here), there's a player rubbing his hands about how he can't WAIT to spend hundreds of dollars on a game and the various expansions.

Where NetRunner and soon-to-be publishedL5R are concerned, that's tricky, because they ARE CCGs/LCGs, so they have to have expansions. But except in one match, I've never used my expansion cards for NetRunner, nor have I played in a tournament. So all the NetRunner sales at CSI and elsewhere bounce off me.

Of course, I sneer at expansions, but don't ask me how many C&C: Ancients expansions I have...

Oh ya, I'm not talking about the "whales" or lifestyle player of these games. I'm talking about average board gamer going to weekly game nights and maybe play these games on the side with someone in their group or a friend. It's all or nothing it seems like. I'm not questioning the financial viability at all.

I went to a Dicemasters organize play a long time ago. This was when the game first came out and the infamous and broken "Gobby" card was Out. One guy had it and just obliterated everybody. Nobody had a chance. It just wasn't fun

That experienced sour me on going to organize play for these types of expandable games. It's just not fun for casual players. I'm sure it would be fun if I decided to go hardcore at it. It's all in or all out or you're in a very specific casual situation (wife that plays, dad and son, college roommate, etc).

I was in that situation with my cousin a couple of years ago. I would go to my hometown for a business class once a week and call my high school age cousin up for X-Wing or Summoner Wars or whatever two player game I had the time. We both just wanted to have fun and we never took it seriously. He went to college and that was the end of that. Those nights we're one of my most memorable gaming nights I ever had. I'm hoping one day I'll find myself in that situation again.

Anyways, I know not all games can be design for me and my situation but having and exploring the meta game just makes something click in my head that makes it so much more fun.

I agree with Natus, as long as there's a market that model will continue. It's been nice to have other companies persue similar types of games using a more traditional model of base+big box expansions or standalone expansion releases.

People want games that change over time and stay fresh. I think that's fine. Just... Not something to really get into if you have a competitive streak

Crockpot wrote:

All these comments makes me wonder if board gamers are going to give up on these expanable games really soon. I swear every year I hear these complaints more and more.

Sure, there will always be those life style gamers that plays one game to death and pays hundreds of dollars then move on to the next game but the average board gamer is starting to lose hope ever playing these games on a casual basis.

I recently decided I might only have room for one of these types of games in my life and I need to ditch the rest. So ya, good bye X-Wing. Good bye Dice Masters. Good bye Ashes (still debasing on this one, it's in my top 10). Summoner Wars beat all of you out. UGH. :(

This is where I am at now for sure. I've also dramatically slowed on buying expansions for other games. Before I wouldn't hesitate to add an expansion (especially Marvel Legendary) now I look more closely at the cost. I would rather buy a new game and get a new experience then hunker down with an older game. Most of the people I play with don't like rules. I feel like I end up explaining more and more with each expansion it's just too much.

Omnivore wrote:

I would rather buy a new game and get a new experience then hunker down with an older game. Most of the people I play with don't like rules. I feel like I end up explaining more and more with each expansion it's just too much.

Ya, I kind of hate expansions that add more rules. I love expansions where there isn't a rule change, just more variety. The Kemet expansion did well in this with some of the modules. Throw in some new cards and add some tiles and we just play. I might of mention one new thing. I just ignore the modules that needed another explanation.

Having that said if the game is already simple and adds one or two rules I have no problem with that. Lords of Waterdeep and the corruption tokens is stupid easy to teach. All you have to say is you lose points if you get skulls. Champions of MIdgard expansion will hopefully do that. The game is already simple enough.

Dysplastic wrote:

I play Netrunner "casually", in that I don't go to tournaments or even game nights. That being said, I do play *Often*, almost every day at work over lunch with a colleague, and have taught it to a few people who've enjoyed it.

I agree that it's difficult to teach, but my solution to the deckbuilding problem has just been to have a bunch of premade decks that I take around with me.

This is exactly what's happened with me. I bought two full cycles of it and it all languished until I mentioned it to a coworker, then built a handful of premades to dork around with. We haven't played in a couple of months now but we ran 5 or 6 games with the various decks prior to that and will definitely get back to it.

Jow wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

I play Netrunner "casually", in that I don't go to tournaments or even game nights. That being said, I do play *Often*, almost every day at work over lunch with a colleague, and have taught it to a few people who've enjoyed it.

I agree that it's difficult to teach, but my solution to the deckbuilding problem has just been to have a bunch of premade decks that I take around with me.

This is exactly what's happened with me. I bought two full cycles of it and it all languished until I mentioned it to a coworker, then built a handful of premades to dork around with. We haven't played in a couple of months now but we ran 5 or 6 games with the various decks prior to that and will definitely get back to it.

Have you used Jinteki.net? Looks to be a bit better than OCTGN

Omnivore wrote:

I would rather buy a new game and get a new experience then hunker down with an older game. Most of the people I play with don't like rules. I feel like I end up explaining more and more with each expansion it's just too much.

I'm kinda the opposite at times. I find it easier to learn new modules or tweaks to existing games I'm familiar with than to sit down for a lengthy rules explanation. And then you have the awkward fumbling around in the dark for the first game or two.

Crockpot wrote:

Ya, I kind of hate expansions that add more rules. I love expansions where there isn't a rule change, just more variety.

Some games just don't have enough of a foundation to support a lot of expansions on them. We've found it's very easy for too many expansions to overload a game and then it just doesn't work as well because it's too bogged down under its own weight (Carcasonne is a great example). Stuff like Dominion, Eldritch Horror, Sentinels of the Multiverse have been really good for us because they add more variety without adding on a ton of new rules to juggle. Or something like Star Realms and Ascension where the expansions can be played standalone so each release is the same core mechanics just slightly remixed.

One thing I've been liking with A:NR is that each cycle adds a bunch of new cards but the new mechanics feel like natural outgrowths from the existing mechanics. Also, not having to learn a handful of new keywords each cycle like most CCGs in the M:tG vein.

I think, maybe by chance, most of the games in my collection have few expansions, and many of them are simple. I think I only own expansions for Lords of Waterdeep (only has one), Blood Rage (only two plus 5th player expansion, very few rules additions), Ticket To Ride (bigger cards with new destinations) and Revolution! (two expansions, but only one is popular, and it's simple).

I strongly agree with shoptroll's appreciation of expansions that add content without overly complicating the gameplay. I'm frequently happy to get "more of the same" of a game I'm enjoying. I look at a game like 7 Wonders and to me, the expansions seem like a nightmare of modularity and additional mechanical overhead.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I look at a game like 7 Wonders and to me, the expansions seem like a nightmare of modularity and additional mechanical overhead.

7 Wonders isn't horrible in the expansion department. At least up to a point. The main issue I've found is that games which rely heavily on symbols instead of text (ie. 7 Wonders, Race for the Galaxy, Bang!) tend to be among the hardest expansions to integrate with groups that don't meet regularly. If people aren't well-versed in the original game throwing another 5-10 new icons at people tends to slow things down a lot.

Leaders is a pretty simple expansion though. You just add an extra round of drafting at the start of the game and it can help direct your strategy for the rest of the game which can be nice. Cities just adds new cards to the main game and tries to balance out military and science a little more with diplomatic and espionage structures.

I haven't tried Babel yet but from what I remember reading it seemed like it would push the game to the point of breaking under the weight of too much sh*t to do.

There was also a pack of additional Wonders you could get which was a cheap and easy way for them to add more variety without really packing on any additional rules.

Speaking of Netrunner, I'm in the same boat. Hard to teach, and the only ones who play it regular around here are competitive whales.

If anyone is interested, I noticed that Vassal has an A:N module. I've never used Vassal before, but I'd be interested in trying out an online game with someone else who's only interested in using the cards in the core set.

Feegle wrote:

Speaking of Netrunner, I'm in the same boat. Hard to teach, and the only ones who play it regular around here are competitive whales.

If anyone is interested, I noticed that Vassal has an A:N module. I've never used Vassal before, but I'd be interested in trying out an online game with someone else who's only interested in using the cards in the core set.

You could count me in on that. I got rid of net runner for the same reasons. To complex for my friends and those who do play play way too serious. Did think it was really cool though.

Just today I saw a group playing a historical wargame under a large sheet of Perspex.

Like, the map was under perspex, or everything was and they lifted it to move a piece? Putting perspex over wargame maps is usually a thing because the maps are frequently either paper or cardstock, and it's the easiest way to get them to lie flat. Protection is secondary, I think.

Hmm, I'm not sure, I didn't get that close a look.

What are your thoughts on Dead of Winter for 2 players? I know the official variant does away with the betrayer, and I've read on BGG the "Prisoner's Dilemma" variant which does pull some additional intrigue. I'd love to find more people with whom to play, but my main gaming group consists primarily of me and my wife.

Carlbear95 wrote:

What are your thoughts on Dead of Winter for 2 players? I know the official variant does away with the betrayer, and I've read on BGG the "Prisoner's Dilemma" variant which does pull some additional intrigue. I'd love to find more people with whom to play, but my main gaming group consists primarily of me and my wife.

Move to Houston, play boardgames with me and my peeps, eat awesome BBQ whenever you want it.

All the talk of Board Game Cafes recently in here has made me interested in checking out Victory Point Cafe in Berkeley. It opened just about a year ago, but haven't made my way out there. I'm usually too angry/stressed to go during sports season when I'm near campus, but we have a bye this week so we may go check it out.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Carlbear95 wrote:

What are your thoughts on Dead of Winter for 2 players? I know the official variant does away with the betrayer, and I've read on BGG the "Prisoner's Dilemma" variant which does pull some additional intrigue. I'd love to find more people with whom to play, but my main gaming group consists primarily of me and my wife.

Move to Houston, play boardgames with me and my peeps, eat awesome BBQ whenever you want it.

I played Prisoner's Dilemma variant and it's amazing. I highly recommend it.

Crockpot wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Carlbear95 wrote:

What are your thoughts on Dead of Winter for 2 players? I know the official variant does away with the betrayer, and I've read on BGG the "Prisoner's Dilemma" variant which does pull some additional intrigue. I'd love to find more people with whom to play, but my main gaming group consists primarily of me and my wife.

Move to Houston, play boardgames with me and my peeps, eat awesome BBQ whenever you want it.

I played Prisoner's Dilemma variant and it's amazing. I highly recommend it.

I'll have to try that! My wife and I played regular 2 player and it was not really comparable to the game with more players and a traitor. It was an OK co-op zombie game. Thanks for the tip on the variant.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Move to Houston, play boardgames with me and my peeps, eat awesome BBQ whenever you want it.

The University of Texas does not pay me enough to live within the city limits :(. I'm sure that breaks your Aggie heart ;).

Chaz wrote:

Like, the map was under perspex, or everything was and they lifted it to move a piece? Putting perspex over wargame maps is usually a thing because the maps are frequently either paper or cardstock, and it's the easiest way to get them to lie flat. Protection is secondary, I think.

That's what I do. Twenty bucks at the hardware store and now my paper maps both lie flat & don't move around the table. I used to game at a friend's house with a flexible clear plastic table covering and that was even better because it provided a little stiction so counters wouldn't slide around like they do on plexiglass.

I got my copy of Star Wars Rebellion from the Miniature Market sale. UGH. I want to play this game now. It's so good.

Mine's coming tomorrow, AND one of my boardgame buddies just moved ~20 minutes closer. That still puts him 40 minutes away, but by current standards, we're practically neighbors.

bighoppa wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

Move to Houston, play boardgames with me and my peeps, eat awesome BBQ whenever you want it.

The University of Texas does not pay me enough to live within the city limits :(. I'm sure that breaks your Aggie heart ;).

I got nothin' but love for you, baby!

Crockpot wrote:

I got my copy of Star Wars Rebellion from the Miniature Market sale. UGH. I want to play this game now. It's so good.

I'm hoping to play my first game this weekend. I watched a how to play video as well as SU&SD's review, and I'm even more pumped. SU&SD suggested not reading any of the cards beforehand, btw, because the surprise factor of what can happen was fun for them.

Speaking of which, I was reading someone's BGG write-up of what happened in their first couple games of Star Trek: Ascendancy, and something happened that was directly from the shows but completely unexpected and amazing. My hype for that game is now even higher.

I haven't historically played any of these heavier games, btw, but I'm really wanting to make these two work. Hopefully I've got people in my group of friends who want to try them.

I've pretty much accepted this will be my one and only once a year epic game in my collection. Kind of like my own personal TI3 for a lack of a better word. The only problem is that the game is so rewarding and fulfilling and want to play it all the time. I'm hoping to get one game in before the end of 2016. I think I can convince my brother to try it out but unfortunately I will be competing against college football season and him constantly being tired from his job.

Crockpot wrote:

I've pretty much accepted this will be my one and only once a year epic game in my collection. Kind of like my own personal TI3 for a lack of a better word. The only problem is that the game is so rewarding and fulfilling and want to play it all the time. I'm hoping to get one game in before the end of 2016. I think I can convince my brother to try it out but unfortunately I will be competing against college football season and him constantly being tired from his job.

Yeah, Rebellion and Ascendancy (if I indeed get it) feel like my personal entree into the world of heavier, strategic games like TI3 or Eclipse - games which sounded cool but very intimidating. Even if I love these, I'm not sure I'd ever want to commit the kind of time for one play that those games take.

Carlbear95 wrote:

All the talk of Board Game Cafes recently in here has made me interested in checking out Victory Point Cafe in Berkeley. It opened just about a year ago, but haven't made my way out there. I'm usually too angry/stressed to go during sports season when I'm near campus, but we have a bye this week so we may go check it out.

My wife and I went for a recent Dominion launch event there and had a good time. They have a big game library, good menu and drink selection. However it felt a bit small and was pretty loud at times. I wondered how crowded it normally is.

Looks like a Kickstarter campaign just launched to open a board game cafe in Chicago called Bonus Round Game Cafe. I met the organizers at a con last year, they seem like cool people and clearly very passionate about the project, hopefully they'll be able to make it work. They've been organizing regular gaming meetups at various bars and coffee shops for the last year or so that seem to be drawing a lot of interest, so hopefully that following can be built on to grow a customer base for a dedicated game cafe location. KS campaign goal of opening in December seems...very optimistic.

Would be great to see the project succeed, I'll definitely check it out once it's open. Let's just hope they avoid the fate of Geek Bar which ran a successful KS campaign, never actually opened in their planned location, had to shut down their temporary location after barely a year, and has since been replaced by a Saved by the Bell theme restaurant...