The All New Gabriel Newell's Digital Wonder Emporium, aka, The Steam Update Thread

maverickz wrote:

There are probably a million ways to game many of Steam's systems, the one positive that comes from the way Valve does things is they take an experimental approach. It's data driven, which they like.

There really are a million ways, and the most lucrative is probably gaming the TF2 and DOTA2 black markets. Every time Captain Invictus writes to Idle Thumbs with another update on the hat barons, it's an absolutely insane look into a bizarre underground economy. The weirdest story I can remember is a student who took $10,000 to the International to buy DOTA2 gifts—actual physical gifts he had to ship back home to Singapore or wherever—and sold the accompanying item codes for a profit.

In fact, you can skip to 53:36 of yesterday's episode for the latest hat chat.

Totally think I'm going to preorder the link and controller. I so want to try the controller and I'd love a streaming box. So I think this is totally up my alley. And they're cheap enough all things considered.

I'll probably preorder. Should try to figure out the best way to pull an internet cable to the other room before November.

Looking at preordering the link/controller. Shipping added $16. Just something to keep in mind. I love using my wallet funds from selling cards to lower the price some at least. Though that means less free money for the steam sale... Can't wait to try the controller, though.

CatPhoenix wrote:

I hate to say it, I'm tempted by that steam controller and link bundle, but I think I should wait to see if they review well first. .... if my willpower can last that long.

Bought it. Looks like in Canada it's handled though EBGames? I couldnt find a link/button that did anything but take me to the EBGames site.

Apparently for this one I am a filthy early adopter pre-order peon and a big part of the problem.

Tyops wrote:

Apparently for this one I am a filthy early adopter pre-order peon and a big part of the problem.

Yeah, toss me into the ring for that, too. Of course, this puts us at risk for some less-than-stellar first-run build quality. So why did I preorder? Those weeks it is supposed to ship early and the fact that I knew I'd get one within the first couple months anyway. Plus I really would love a quality controller, but having not really console-gamed since the Super Nintendo (and the Wii stick), I'm really uncomfortable with the PS/Xbox schemes. Steam controller at least seems like it may hit on some key points to help me feel better about using it (precision for one). I love my kb/mouse.

Apparently I'm a sheep. Just pre-ordered a controller and link. We'll see how this goes.

Just the controller. I already have more than enough spare laptops for streaming.

Antichulius wrote:
Tyops wrote:

Apparently for this one I am a filthy early adopter pre-order peon and a big part of the problem.

Yeah, toss me into the ring for that, too. Of course, this puts us at risk for some less-than-stellar first-run build quality. So why did I preorder?

I'm just assuming that those of us who pre-ordered will get into the HL3 closed beta. Seems reasonable no?

Tyops wrote:
Antichulius wrote:
Tyops wrote:

Apparently for this one I am a filthy early adopter pre-order peon and a big part of the problem.

Yeah, toss me into the ring for that, too. Of course, this puts us at risk for some less-than-stellar first-run build quality. So why did I preorder?

I'm just assuming that those of us who pre-ordered will get into the HL3 closed beta. Seems reasonable no?

Valve doesn't work that way.

HL3 will be finished, and buying a Steam Box will be the only way to get it.

Ordered 2 controllers. Because, I have two daughters (great excuse, right?)

Gravey wrote:

Valve doesn't work that way.

HL3 will be finished, and buying a Steam Box will be the only way to get it.

And millions of people will decry this and 3 years later we all have Steam boxes.

Refunds sound great. Really happy to see them catching up with the competition and, presumably, the EU laws. If trading cards are really a problem, there's an easy solution: delay card drops until 2 hours have been spent with the game. If devs balk then allow them a way to opt-out and the drops can start on their game without a delay.

I'm going to wait on reviews for the Link and controller. I have an HDMI cable from my PC to our TV so I don't need the Link but I like the idea of it. Not really in need of the controller either since I have two Logitech F710s, but I'm really interested in its ability to function as a trackpad. Could make mouse heavy genres like Adventure and TBS work well on the couch.

CatPhoenix wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

Oh this debate again?

Sorry, didn't realize there was a debate on this already. I just find it annoying how trash gets greenlit, yet other games, that could indeed have potential if they were only given a chance, but games that are dayz'ish seem to get a complete pass and get in with very little effort. But I now that is how popular things work at times. Consider me vented and I won't bring it up again.

I was being incredibly flippant and dismissive with that line, sorry. Greenlight's totally busted and I know that's really frustrating to people, especially considering how long it's taking Valve time to clean it up and clamp down on the behavior of some of the bad players who were doing things like promising free copies in exchange for up votes. I know the flood of low quality titles isn't harming my experience with the store as I usually only hit the store when I'm looking for something specific. But my experience isn't universal and maybe a lot of titles in the store is a problem for you and other users.

tboon wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Valve doesn't work that way.

HL3 will be finished, and buying a Steam Box will be the only way to get it.

And millions of people will decry this and 3 years later we all have Steam boxes.

I laughed. Then I cried because it's true.

If it proves to work on WiFi, Steam Link all the way for me. I'd love to be able to play PC games in my bedroom without propping up a wheezing, rickety old laptop that could die any day now.

I'm sold on the Steam Controller as I was planning on replacing my old entry level Logitech controller soon anyway. I hope they will release some details on how it can be used outside of games; like a different wireless way to interact with Windows and especially with Firefox and Chrome.

As for the Steam Link, I love the idea to be able to access my gaming PC from the living room. Just wish they would release more information if it can do screencasting/streaming for stuff other than just games and Steam Big Screen Mode. A media player and fore-mentioned web browsers.

In anycase neither of them are showing up in my local Steam Store page, so the idea of getting them may be moot. Perhaps I need to hit up that guy who shipped stuff back here from the International...

Ooh, I just had a thought, I'd love a steam controller if it helps me input fighting game combos.

Oof, that's a couple of indies I like I hope the bigger studios are getting hit just as hard. Also, can you get a refund on something you pick up via a Humble Bundle?

Only first-party purchases.

Link[/url]]Purchases Made Outside of Steam
Valve cannot provide refunds for purchases made outside of Steam (for example, CD keys or Steam wallet cards purchased from third parties).

Considering the utter glut of indie games popping up on Steam, and the questionable quality of some, I'm not at all surprised. Many of them are impulse purchases and when the excitement fades, probably about when the customer first buys and tries it, they'll want their money back.

Those in-article charts don't seem to indicate it, but I wonder how the data is skewed by people being more willing to buy a game they're unsure of now that they can get a refund. Maybe these refunds don't indicate lost sales so much as "demo" users.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Those in-article charts don't seem to indicate it, but I wonder how the data is skewed by people being more willing to buy a game they're unsure of now that they can get a refund. Maybe these refunds don't indicate lost sales so much as "demo" users.

Yep, it would have helped if they told us how many copies the games sold the week before refunds were possible. Many of those games are old. For all we know they could have been selling 1-10 copies per week but now are selling 50 with a 70% return rate.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Those in-article charts don't seem to indicate it, but I wonder how the data is skewed by people being more willing to buy a game they're unsure of now that they can get a refund. Maybe these refunds don't indicate lost sales so much as "demo" users.

Hard to tell, a spike in sales would indicate that, but the graphs show ... I'm not sure what they show. Total quantity currently in the wild? Because it almost looks like refunds are counted as negative sales.

If that is the case, I have no problem with that. I think it's a fair use of the system.

I got back to my concern with Dark Souls 2 SOTFS DX9 vs DX11 question. Before, I had doubts about which to get based on my hardware. Now I can try DX11, see how it runs, and decide either to keep it or refund it and get the DX9 version.

EvilDead wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:

Those in-article charts don't seem to indicate it, but I wonder how the data is skewed by people being more willing to buy a game they're unsure of now that they can get a refund. Maybe these refunds don't indicate lost sales so much as "demo" users.

Yep, it would have helped if they told us how many copies the games sold the week before refunds were possible. Many of those games are old. For all we know they could have been selling 1-10 copies per week but now are selling 50 with a 70% return rate.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/1iXhn8h.jpg)

Edit: Please note, I'm not calling the devs liars. I'm just acknowledging EvilDead's and LiquidMantis' points via a quote that is all too relevant to my job.

Puppy Games did away with playable demos a few years back because most of their games are good for about thirty minutes of shootybang and then the user is often "done". Unless a user is hooked on the replayability, spiced-up Space Invaders or Robotron isn't going to hold their interest. They figured it was better to sell their games for cheap but with no (playable) demo.

I actually thought of Puppy first when I first read about Steam refunds and how it will affect indies. I think their stuff is pretty neat, and I wish them well for Basingstoke, but this Steam refund policy is going to savage them.

EDIT: Yes, shoptroll -- I brought this up because of their presence in the article.

Archangel wrote:

I actually thought of Puppy first when I first read about Steam refunds and how it will affect indies. I think their stuff is pretty neat, and I wish them well for Basingstoke, but this Steam refund policy is going to savage them.

Guess who was one of the developers quoted in that Kotaku article...

Edit: Gotcha, wasn't sure if you read the article or not

Funny that PuppyGames is mentioned, since I've enjoyed all of their games. I even own them all, though that is mostly thanks to buying bundles at humble bundle, but still. I've always kept my eye out for them on steam to see if they will publish something new, but they haven't come out with anything in 2 years. .... Just looked at their website, wow, Basingstoke 2.5d alien apocalypse on earth, with tons of shadows.... The whole thing looks like an action horror game.

And how many people are really buying games, knowing the big summer sale starts tomorrow.

Sparhawk wrote:

Maybe not the perfect thread for this, but it's a good read:

Some things you should know about Steam : What can we learn by data mining Steam for fun and profit.

From the article

British users are playing and paying the most, with an average Steam user spending 734 hours and having 41 game in his library (twice as much as the average European Steam user or four times as much as average Steam user in general).

The average Steam user only has 10 games in their library? Now I feel really bad about that pile...