Official Team Fortress 2 Game Nights (PC)

Spunior wrote:
FYI, Valve released a bunch'o interesting stats. Nice read.
Wow that's neat, thanks for the post Spunior IMAGE(http://www.steampowered.com/status/tf2/public_graphs/teamwinpct.png)
It's interesting that when red as a defensive advantage they win more often but when the sides are even blue wins or often

Probably psychological. My guess is that people are more ready to shoot when their target is red and threatening.
This could be bad. I don't want to play the game while being aware of this.

I like how engineer is one of the most played classes but gets the least points
Bonesaw seems to be the most likely weapon to crit as well these stats are leet source

Wow the deathmaps are just cool as hell. I love gravelpit its like a deathmachine

I didn't realize that the fire ax has more reach than the other melee weapons.

Pharacon wrote:
I like how engineer is one of the most played classes but gets the least points

It doesnt appear to be hurting your point totals too much, Phar.

the disparity between blue and red wins is amazing. Its not even close. I wonder if its true for the Lounge. The stats page doesnt appear to list that stuff. Maybe red becomes pacified seeing those calming blue uniforms .

Pharacon wrote:
I like how engineer is one of the most played classes but gets the least points :(

I don't know, take a gander at my personal records.

Well, actually it makes sense, a lot of people don't play engineer particularly well, or they end up guarding a capture point way behind the front lines and don't build teleporters (which is the easiest way to gain points as an engineer).

It would be nice if Value would release some statistic tools for servers. I'm not sure what the server logs look like and how hard it would be to write a parser.

Edit: You have gotten better at grammar(1)

Echoblade wrote:
I would be nice if Value would release some statistic tools for servers.

Otherwise, he's going to be a right bastard!

Sad to see that snipers get played more than heavies. At least that's not (usually) true on Stan's Lounge.

It certainly wasn't true last night. It was a Heavy/Medic Hoe-Down on the lounge yesterday :).

Yeah, I'm sure Stan's is an outlier on their data sets.

boogle wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure Stan's is an outlier on their data sets.

Agree. On a lot of the pubbies you can count on about a third to a half of the players being snipers. They don't care about taking or holding flags, as long as they can occasionally kill someone and not be exposed to too much danger.

In all fairness, since I like playing sniper, being a sniper doesn't mean that I don't care about holding or taking flags. I tend to play that class because it's useful for taking out the really annoying soldiers/heavies/demos that my teammates who are playing more "in your face" classes can't seem to pin down long enough to tag. Additionally, they come in handy for neutralizing enemy snipers, and can help take out the sentry guns that aren't placed well from a defensive standpoint.

Having said that, I also fully admit that I like playing a bunch of other classes as well, so I don't just stick with the one.

Rubb Ed wrote:
In all fairness, since I like playing sniper, being a sniper doesn't mean that I don't care about holding or taking flags.

The sniper class isn't inherently a source of poor team play. It's just pubbies that do nothing but look down the scope for cheap kills (or worse, on maps like 2Fort, kiddie snipers who do nothing but snipe back and forth at each other, completely oblivious to the game that's going on)

The sniper class isn't inherently a source of poor team play. It's just pubbies that do nothing but look down the scope for cheap kills (or worse, on maps like 2Fort, kiddie snipers who do nothing but snipe back and forth at each other, completely oblivious to the game that's going on)

Haven't played on a pub server in a while but I love playing sniper on 2fort. Two good snipers on the battlement can easily take down rushing scouts or anyone trying to cross the bridge into the front entrance. Anyone who makes it past is usually severly injured. It's a very effective way of slowing down a quick route into the base forcing enemy rushes to go a longer route. It also comes with the added bonus of sniper duels. A really good pair of snipers usually require spies to waste time and lives trying to clear out the enemy snipers.

Honestly, I think snipers on 2Fort are mostly useless unless they're really, really good (or distracting an opposing sniper that is really, really good.) For defense, I think you're probably better off building another sentry gun.

Gaald wrote:
The sniper class isn't inherently a source of poor team play. It's just pubbies that do nothing but look down the scope for cheap kills (or worse, on maps like 2Fort, kiddie snipers who do nothing but snipe back and forth at each other, completely oblivious to the game that's going on)

Haven't played on a pub server in a while but I love playing sniper on 2fort. Two good snipers on the battlement can easily take down rushing scouts or anyone trying to cross the bridge into the front entrance. Anyone who makes it past is usually severly injured. It's a very effective way of slowing down a quick route into the base forcing enemy rushes to go a longer route. It also comes with the added bonus of sniper duels. A really good pair of snipers usually require spies to waste time and lives trying to clear out the enemy snipers.


As a spy, snipers on 2fort are stat bonuses.
They are easy kills and if there are multiple, they wont notice the other ones dying so you can get like 5 of them if they're there.

On a moderately full server a sniper can greatly benefit the team. I think Gaald said something about stopping incoming scouts and taking out people crossing the bridge. Sentries aren't always the best defense.

Also, snipers can be used as a good offensive class as long as you have a good eye and a quick wrist. Giving your team cover fire while they take a particular point always helps.

There is a time and a place for a sniper. IMHO, they can open a door for a rush by dropping defenses or taking out opposing snipers. I think their key role is to keep the bad guy snipers off guard and from taking their time lining up shots on the opposing teams players.

A good sniper can take the buzz off in a hurry.

I disagree with Staats on 2Fort. A good sniper can keep heavies, soldiers and scouts from entering the base via the bridge.

On 2Fort, I think that as soon as a sniper pops up on the opposing battlements, counter-sniping is in order, even if you're not particularly good. It draws their attention away from sniping out your teammates because they know you'll be on their butt. Even a not-so-hot sniper (read: me) pulls out a headshot every now and again.

I don't much like 2fort anyways, regardless of which class I'm playing.

As for snipers, one or two on a full team will almost always be useful. They can't hold a line though - they need people in front of them keeping everyone else at a distance. When you have an overabundance of snipers the line collapses.

CEJ wrote:
I disagree with Staats on 2Fort. A good sniper can keep heavies, soldiers and scouts from entering the base via the bridge.

I agree with this. A good sniper can keep a heavy, soldier, or scout (going over the top) from a crossing, if they use the bridge. It's a pretty small window of usefulness though - of an attacking party, one guy goes down, but the rest of the party isn't even slowed down. Most make it across, at which point the sniper becomes useless against the party. Or, they decide to swim it, avoiding the snipers altogether.

Contrast this with an sentry gun/engineer in chokepoint-heavy 2Fort. Everyone stops while either an uber guy takes out a gun (just one gun, usually) or someone tries to get an angle on the gun. In the meantime, the defending team's got guys spawning next to the attacking team, a pyro setting the whole attacking party on fire, etc. On top of this is the additive effect of engineers - extra engineers aren't just more guns, they're more wrenches to build up and repair guns.

All of which is why I dislike 2Fort. There are other ways to defend, but it seems like piling on sentry guns is by far the most effective.

They need to release some detailed stats about the average cost of a game on each match based on the number of bullets fired by Sasha.

Hey every now and then when I get bored on 2fort as sniper. Its kinda fun creeping around the abse and nailing people with the snipergun where they least expect it. I reallyslike pinging engy's in the head as they clank their sentry guns

I wish the dispencers exploded like they use to, this way they damage friendly and enemy people as a remote bomb

The Death Maps are fascinating.

I also noticed that they must be counting class switches or something as deaths because you can see a somewhat large concentration in the spawn areas of several maps. Most noticable among these are the upper left corner on dustbowl (initial blue spawn area) and the spawn areas on 2Fort.

Also, if you look at 2Fort, you will see that one spawn area is greener (more intense) than the other. Since I can't tell from the images which side is the red and which is the blue, I can't correlate more class switches to the more successful side or the less successful side. Can anyone determine which side is which?

If I were going to take a guess at the disparity on the (supposedly) symmetrical maps, I would suspect some of it has to do with the lighting. For instance, in Well, I remember noticing that the second level (catwalk) area by the red side middle cap point was darker than the blue side. I would think that would be better for red, but maybe the reverse is true. (Unless I am backwards and the blue side is darker. Anyway, one of them is darker.) Maybe it is easier for blue to blend in when it is darker.

I would also like to see success statistics on the sub-goals - percentage of successes capturing the each of the first two areas in Dustbowl, percentage of capturing each of the first two points in Gravelpit. I would guess, for instance, that the success rate for blue on the first area alone in Dustbowl is probably in the eighties or nineties.

Another thing that's interesting... people don't like playing medics. I can't blame them, actually -- I play medic a lot, but I don't LIKE doing it, I just do it when nobody else is. So... I end up doing a lot of healing.

A medic is absolutely critical to the offense, but it's hard to get people to play them. It's the old problem of the healer role in every game. People want to be in there having fun, not helping other people have fun. I think maybe the class needs a minor offensive boost, just a little bit, so that they're not stuck just healing and watching for spies.

Hmm, maybe a 1-step increase in bonesaw range?

Playing medic can be fun. You just have to make it that way. That old "picking a guy and stick to him until his death" routine? Boring. Try spreading your benevolence to the entire team. Have them call out for medics as soon as they get hurt. No man gets left behind. I had really good fun a few nights ago while running offense in Gravel Pit. The team of six was just about the right size to keep one medic busy, and that together with the layout of the map forced players to congregate into one small enough location, so it was relatively easy to keep the whole team up

Past medics used to be able to spread disease in the opposing team. The disease slowly saps the life out of its victim, and will not go away until either the victim is dead, or a friendly medic removes it by, you guessed it, smashing his own med pack repeatedly on the victim's head. It is also contagious and will spread by touch. If left unchecked, a single application of the disease in a heavily populated spot can mean the ruin of an entire team. It gave medics their unique brand of offensive power.

I can think of many reasons that made the devs remove the disease. It's supposed to encourage the presence of at least one medic in both teams so they may counteract each other's efforts, but medics, being immune to the disease themselves, would rather focus on infiltrating the enemy base and cause carnage instead of saving their teammates. You can imagine how much fun that's going to be for everyone else.

I like the idea of the disease though, and like Malor said, Medics can use a bit of offensive power. We just need to bring it under control. Give it a finite duration. Have it sap a significantly less amount of life at a slower rate. Most importantly, keep it contagious. Even better if the bonus is added to the syringe gun. What's inside the syringe anyway? (I have a feeling this might have been the devs' intentions after all.)

Having the syringe gun actually do something would make playing a Medic vastly more appealing.

Syringes full of disease?