Romney praises Israel's universal health care

link

And the irony shatters the space time continuum.

JERUSALEM — Presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney offered praise for the Israeli health care system today — a medical plan that has been socialized since its founding in 1948.
Romney, who championed the Massachusetts health care mandate, but is an opponent of the federal mandate passed by President Barack Obama, marveled at how little Israel spends on health care relative to the United States.
"When our health care costs are completely out of control. Do you realize what health care spending is as a percentage of the GDP in Israel? 8 percent. You spend 8 percent of GDP on health care. And you’re a pretty healthy nation," Romney told donors at a fundraiser at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, speaking of a health care system that is compulsory for Israelis and funded by the government. "We spend 18 percent of our GDP on health care. 10 percentage points more. That gap, that 10 percent cost, let me compare that with the size of our military. Our military budget is 4 percent. Our gap with Israel is 10 points of GDP. We have to find ways, not just to provide health care to more people, but to find ways to finally manage our health care costs."
Romney has explained that he opposes ObamaCare because what worked in Massachusetts may not work for other states. Highlighting the success of the Israeli system — in a country that enjoys one of the highest life expectancy rates in the world — could complicate matters for Romney at home.

... How has Mittens not imploded?

Kannon wrote:

... How has Mittens not imploded?

Keep watching, it's coming.

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

Ulairi wrote:

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

That is my position as well, but their solution/alternative is...?

Ulairi wrote:

The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

I'm pretty sure that's almost everyone's position.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

That is my position as well, but their solution/alternative is...?

Well, their solution was kind of Obamacare....

I mean they wrote it.

Ulairi wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

That is my position as well, but their solution/alternative is...?

Well, their solution was kind of Obamacare....

I mean they wrote it.

"Do what we say, not what we did!"

Stengah wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

That is my position as well, but their solution/alternative is...?

Well, their solution was kind of Obamacare....

I mean they wrote it.

"Do what we say, not what we did!"

I thought it was always IOKIYAR.

Ulairi wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

Maybe he isn't going to be nuts if he's President. The conservative position on healthcare is that our system doesn't work and we are wasting resources.

That is my position as well, but their solution/alternative is...?

Well, their solution was kind of Obamacare....

I mean they wrote it.

I was under the impression that it was written to make everyone equally unhappy.

I mean, seriously, the more Romney talks, the more I think he's trolling. But I can't for the life of me figure out who the bugger is trolling.

This man has so many faces and such an elitist attitude that I honestly don't know what normal person would actually vote for him. I figure that it is going to be mostly corporate bought votes and such.

Many millions of people will vote for him because he has an R next to his name. Many millions of other people will vote for him because he is not Obama. Once over 100 million people do something, I think it is considered normal.

Their military budget is four percent?

Kannon wrote:

I was under the impression that it was written to make everyone equally unhappy.

I mean, seriously, the more Romney talks, the more I think he's trolling. But I can't for the life of me figure out who the bugger is trolling.

Did you ever consider that it might be you?!

:p

I imagine if we had a non-voluntary 2 or 3 years in the military for all able-bodied citizens, we'd be a much healthier nation overall and would need less medical care over our lifetimes. Just a thought.

4xis.black wrote:

Their military budget is four percent?

When you have a rich uncle who can regularly brings you small gifts such as a small missile defense system for a cool $70M apiece, you can keep your own budgetary expenditures comfortably low.

I'm pretty sure we could afford universal health care if 90% of our treatments involved calling the patient a pussy, rubbing a little dirt in it, and threatening further injury if they didn't get back on their feet.

4xis.black wrote:

Their military budget is four percent?

Actually, he said our military budget is four percent.

Which I find damn near impossible to believe. In fact, I'm going to go look it up.

...

As a percent of our federal budget, the 2012 military spending is listed as 25%. As a percent of our GDP, it looks like most sources I've found in a 5-minute check indicate around 5% for 2012. Medical is 23% of our federal budget. So that would put it around the same mark as a percent of GDP.

So it sounds like he's mixing federal and private spending for health care with federal-only spending for military. Disingenuous at best.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'm pretty sure we could afford universal health care if 90% of our treatments involved calling the patient a pussy, rubbing a little dirt in it, and threatening further injury if they didn't get back on their feet.

I think that if you put that on paper, the Texas legislature would be on board for Obamacare.

This would be a curious strategy if he was playing the long game for socialized STATE health care. His big problem with Obamacare is the national scale of it. If he tries to make the cornerstone of his argument the states rights bit, and emphasizes Israel's size in relation to certain states that are similar, this is not that inconsistent.

Would be an interesting end around to Obama's arguments and might still keep a bunch of states rights conservatives even with the socialized medicine part. Of course, I've seen no indication of that so far, and it would be a pretty risky strategy in any case.

Farscry wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

Their military budget is four percent?

Actually, he said our military budget is four percent.

Sorry guys - I meant "their" as in America's, eh.

Jolly Bill wrote:

This would be a curious strategy if he was playing the long game for socialized STATE health care. His big problem with Obamacare is the national scale of it. If he tries to make the cornerstone of his argument the states rights bit, and emphasizes Israel's size in relation to certain states that are similar, this is not that inconsistent.

Would be an interesting end around to Obama's arguments and might still keep a bunch of states rights conservatives even with the socialized medicine part. Of course, I've seen no indication of that so far, and it would be a pretty risky strategy in any case.

That is one way to do it, grant NIH incentives. I am still in the opt in to Medicare camp considering I am already paying for it.

4xis.black wrote:
Farscry wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

Their military budget is four percent?

Actually, he said our military budget is four percent.

Sorry guys - I meant "their" as in America's, eh.

D'oh! Sorry, I wasn't thinking about your home location when you wrote that.

according to wikipedia Israel's defense budget is 6.7% of GDP the US is at 4.7%. I'm not if that figure include the US military aid or not. The military aid the US give Israel is money to spend on US weapon systems which means Israel doesn't really see a penny of that money but US weapon manufacturers do . There are also joint ventures which is a way for Israeli companies to eat a little bit of that pie. I think the military aid is about 4 billion $. Israel can alternatively get the weapon systems from other countries . Israel also get help with buying German weapons - specifically submarines and of course that money goes mostly into the German economy.

Let go back to healthcare. Our healthcare system is pretty decent . We did have a fair share of strikes because doctors are worked hard like slaves. I heard something about 28-30 hour shifts at about 9$ per hour to all the doctors who just finished school. The medical system still works but going to the emergancy room is a 5-8 hours event unless it's a real emergency . I've been through a few emergancy room waits. I think that when I got the mild case of GBS (I could still walk,eat,drink,breath) I came in at about 8pm and got to see a doctor at about 10pm or 10:30pm. Luckily I didn't do a CT because the machine broke down and it wouldn't have helped anyways. The doctors were pretty excited about it and suggested a lumbar puncture to diagnose it. I agreed but they weren't too successful with it and stabbed me about 6 times in the back. After that I did EMG in the morning I then had a week with plasmapheresis treatments (the hematologist said they cost 3000$ each ) and after that week I was almost back to normal. I still had to do some physical therapy exercises and they sent me a physical therapist home.

And all of that cost me hmm - about 20$. I did end up giving up a lot of paid leave but I also got some 80% paid sick days ( I think the government and the employer split it somehow) .

The other time I was in the emergency room for my own problem is when my lips got swollen from an allergic reaction . We wanted to save the money on the emergancy room which costs about 100$-200$ without a referal so we went to an emergency care clinic which cost about 16$~ . I was quickly pushed to the front of the line, got an epinephrin injection and they called an ambulance to take me to the hospital. In the hospital I got admitted immediately to the emergency room and they gave me steroids. Then I had to wait for the swelling to go away and also get checked by a doctor to see if it didn't spread to my throat and I was released when I was ok . That whole thing took about 4-5 hours. I don't think I payed more than 16$ for it.

In terms of going to the doctor I think it cost me about 4$ per visit I'm not really sure but it's not something I can't handle. My wife said she pays nothing but she has a different health provider . There are about 4 health providers and about 2 of them are big ones . They compete on getting government health funding. The health care isn't exactly free because everyone pays 5% of their income for health care (and another 5% for social security). The hospitals also get a big lump of money (1750$) per child that is born . Generally the hospitals try to attract pregnant women to have their children there and some people travel to hospitals which are far from their home .

Medicine costs about 4$ for 20 pills - it still depends on what you buy. Some chronic medicine like thyroxine you can gen enough for a month for 4$. There is still a limit to what medicine you can get. Some medicine don't make the health basket so they are not subsidized by the government health care.

The US system still has advantages because the medical companies are always looking for new medicine because selling medicine is extremely profitable. In the US there are a lot of people who can afford healthcare which makes good business for the pharmaceutical companies . There are still a whole lot of people that can't afford healthcare that either get in big debts ,get disabled and/or die (I'm still not updated on the subject).

There is still some disadvantages to a socialized healthcare system. The first major one is that you pay according to what you earn and not according to your health. The other big one is self destructive behavior like drinking, smoking ,drug use and bad diets act as a major drain on the system which cause some treatments to not get well funded. Our government is in the process of shoving smokers into a tight corner. We are probably going to switch most of our electric power generation to gas which is generally clean compared to other fuel .

I just remember there is currently a lack of hospitals space. Maybe our spending on healthcare is low because we are not spending enough. According to wikipedia The life expectancy in Israel is 82 years which is 4th in the world so I guess our health system isn't that bad.

I was just waiting for him to say Israel's economy is relatively robust because Jews are good with money.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I was just waiting for him to say Israel's economy is relatively robust because Jews are good with money.

He hinted at it really hard, in a previous speech.

Niseg, keep in mind that Americans are really, really good at hiding defense expenditures. For instance, our nuclear arsenal is funded as part of the Department of Energy.

An average of $16 per hospital visit? Sweet mercy. I think this year my wife and I are averaging about $250 a visit after insurance.

Kehama wrote:

An average of $16 per hospital visit? Sweet mercy. I think this year my wife and I are averaging about $250 a visit after insurance.

It's socialized health care and as I said above sometimes you get what you pay for. The treatment I got isn't totally free because I pay 5% of my paycheck to social healthcare. If you earn more than average and stay healthy then it gets pretty expensive.

The coverage is pretty decent but not all treatments and medicine are covered. there are few patients which get into huge debts because their medicine isn't covered by the government health program.

As far as I heard the medicine in Israel Isn't that expensive so some people from Russia and other countries with crumbling healthcare system come to Israel to get surgery done. In a quick peek into the wikipedia article on the subject I've discovered how "cheap it is"

wikipedia wrote:

A patient with no health insurance who needs bypass surgery in the United States would spend approximately $120,000, while the same procedure performed in Israel would cost approximately $30,000. In vitro fertilization (IVF) is known for its high success rates and considerably lower costs. IVF costs $3,000-$3,500 in Israel, compared to $16,000-$20,000 in the U.S.

.

I think IFV is subsidized by the government to Israeli citizens. I think bypass surgeries are practically free but it depends on what components are covered by the healthcare system. You can get free treatment but it's not always the best.

IFV can be very expensive because it's not always successful and some people try it for years before getting any results.

Genetic screening before having children is another great service we get which isn't fully subsidized but is still affordable . I've recently checked if there is something as affordable in the USA and found a fairly affordable one for my brother . (he's getting married soon so it's pretty important to be ready with this). Israel is about 80% Jewish and Jews have quiet a few genetic disease they have to keep track of. The Jewish community aren't the only ones with genetic problems. There are some communities which sometimes marry cousins so they can benefit from genetic screening.