My issue now is deciding which is more beneficial: dropping the extra pounds or doing strength training. I've dropped from 282 in January down to 224 now, and I want to hit 205 to 210. That's where my doc thinks I need to be long-term. So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
I think Kehama's advice still stands. Also, what kind of strength training are you doing? And you just started right? Can you tell where you gained the weight? Some people will see immediate weight gains across their back/shoulders when they lift heavy for first time in awhile, then plateau. At least that was my experience.
Related to this issue:
I live with my friend and his girlfriend. For the last 3-6 months they go to the gym about everyday, and are improving their eating habits. Her gym routine includes mostly eliptical type cardio, and a weight training circuit that involves both the circuit machines and some barbell lifting (your basic squat, bench, and all that). She is disappointed because she doesn't seem to be losing weight or getting smaller. I have never actually witnessed their workouts.
Any facts or comments I can bring up to be supportive and/or motivational?
I read an article recently basically saying that if your primary exercise is cardio, you're going to lose weight and then put it back on. The gist of it was that your body becomes accustomed to a consistent style and intensity level, and then compensates. So basically, if she's spending most of her gym time on the elliptical at the same level, that might be the problem. The trick seems to be varying your routine or at the very least consistently increasing the intensity so that your body's forced to compensate, which leads to muscle growth and fat loss.
I am not a trainer though, so take that for what it's worth. I really wish I could find that article again.
So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
Weight is a horrible, horrible metric. Just say no to any number that does not reflect your body composition. Every pound of muscle that you add burns calories 24 hours a day even when it's not being actively used. Skipping out on adding muscle because it makes the completely irrelevant number on the scale look better would only be hurting your actual health.
trichy wrote:So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
Weight is a horrible, horrible metric. Just say no to any number that does not reflect your body composition. Every pound of muscle that you add burns calories 24 hours a day even when it's not being actively used. Skipping out on adding muscle because it makes the completely irrelevant number on the scale look better would only be hurting your actual health.
I agree with this, and in my situation that's what her boyfriend and I try to tell her. It's not all about what you weigh, it's about whether or not you are a smaller size, or feeling more energetic, or looking healthier, or recovering faster from strenuous activity, or being able to hike to a nice view without dying...on and on. Basically I'm looking for some ways to convince her of that.
Thanks for the words Chaz, unfortunately, the details of her workouts are out of my lane. Any info I can sneak to her through the boyfriend would be great though, like that article. 
trichy wrote:So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
Weight is a horrible, horrible metric. Just say no to any number that does not reflect your body composition. Every pound of muscle that you add burns calories 24 hours a day even when it's not being actively used. Skipping out on adding muscle because it makes the completely irrelevant number on the scale look better would only be hurting your actual health.
This, to a certain extent.
To reduced the problem down to a ridiculous absolute - do you want to be strong, or do you want to be thin?
The answer is probably "both", and that's a reasonable answer.
For you, given that you've got significant momentum, I'd almost be inclinced to suggest that you simply keep doing what you've been doing until it stops being effective, then start making changes to keep that momentum rolling.
On the flip side, barring injury, there's never a bad time to be included strength training. Lean muscle is a friend of weight-loss.
Elycion wrote:trichy wrote:So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
Weight is a horrible, horrible metric. Just say no to any number that does not reflect your body composition. Every pound of muscle that you add burns calories 24 hours a day even when it's not being actively used. Skipping out on adding muscle because it makes the completely irrelevant number on the scale look better would only be hurting your actual health.
I agree with this, and in my situation that's what her boyfriend and I try to tell her. It's not all about what you weigh, it's about whether or not you are a smaller size, or feeling more energetic, or looking healthier, or recovering faster from strenuous activity, or being able to hike to a nice view without dying...on and on. Basically I'm looking for some ways to convince her of that.
Thanks for the words Chaz, unfortunately, the details of her workouts are out of my lane. Any info I can sneak to her through the boyfriend would be great though, like that article. :D
Sounds to me like she's been doing the same workout, and has reached an equilibrium point. She needs to change things up, either by paying closer attention to what she eats, or increasing training load. More intensity or more duration. Put that elliptical on a higher difficult level, then get off it and do something else too. Bodyweight circuit or jump in the pool or something.
Elycion wrote:trichy wrote:So do I pull back on the exercise until I hit the weight I want to be, or do I forget about my target weight and continue to work out?
Weight is a horrible, horrible metric. Just say no to any number that does not reflect your body composition. Every pound of muscle that you add burns calories 24 hours a day even when it's not being actively used. Skipping out on adding muscle because it makes the completely irrelevant number on the scale look better would only be hurting your actual health.
This, to a certain extent.
To reduced the problem down to a ridiculous absolute - do you want to be strong, or do you want to be thin?
The answer is probably "both", and that's a reasonable answer.
For you, given that you've got significant momentum, I'd almost be inclinced to suggest that you simply keep doing what you've been doing until it stops being effective, then start making changes to keep that momentum rolling.
On the flip side, barring injury, there's never a bad time to be included strength training. Lean muscle is a friend of weight-loss.
Both is the correct answer. My long-term goal is to drop my body fat % significantly, down to about 10-12%. But I still have fat where I don't want it, and it's frustrating to have stripped away so much of my excess blubber and then have that progress come to a screeching halt. I know that muscle weighs more than fat, and I know that long-term, the muscle mass will be highly beneficial, but I still have love handles and other undesirable accessories, and I want those bastards dead and gone.
Yes, part of this is vanity, but I don't apologize for it. I've spent my entire adult life as a fatass. Now I see a light at the end of the tunnel where I don't have to look like that any longer, and I WANT TO GET THERE. The idea of anything, including strength training, slowing down my progress towards that goal, bothers me immensely.
This is what I've managed to do in four months. I'm so damn close, and I don't want to stop.
Yes, part of this is vanity, but I don't apologize for it. I've spent my entire adult life as a fatass. Now I see a light at the end of the tunnel where I don't have to look like that any longer, and I WANT TO GET THERE. The idea of anything, including strength training, slowing down my progress towards that goal, bothers me immensely.
Serious question, what is that goal? If it's a number on a scale, then maybe I could see that you'd want to avoid the weights (although I'm still not convinced that you should - unless you're putting serious time into heavy lifts, you're not going to bulk-up).
You say it's vanity though. In which case, get on them weights, good sir. At this point, nothing will make what you see in the mirror look better faster than lifting.
Lift weights, get strong, get bowling ball shoulders, and invite everyone else to your beautiful muscles party :rock:
Find out if they need tickets to the show.
Then ask if they need directions to the beach.
I know that muscle weighs more than fat, and I know that long-term, the muscle mass will be highly beneficial, but I still have love handles and other undesirable accessories, and I want those bastards dead and gone.
To get rid of the "undesirable accessories" you need to burn significantly more calories than you eat for a very long time. Boosting your lean muscle mass is one of the easiest ways to accomplish this. Every extra pound of muscle is going to be burning away calories for you with no additional effort on your part. In the fitness community it's common to hear folks who are into bodybuilding complain that they're eating 3K+ calories per day and constantly feel like they are starving. That's how much muscle helps.
Just try not to get discouraged at the time things take right now. Your hypothetical person who loses 100 pounds is going to tell you that the last 5 pounds took 95% of the total time. It's a major pain, but that's just how the human body works.
Number on a scale is not always the worst metric, and in fact, I'd say it's not ever a bad one until you have a difficult time identifying what is still fat on your body. I could easily be at my current weight because of muscle, but a quick look in the mirror of my squishy, rotund belly tells me otherwise.
trichy wrote:Yes, part of this is vanity, but I don't apologize for it. I've spent my entire adult life as a fatass. Now I see a light at the end of the tunnel where I don't have to look like that any longer, and I WANT TO GET THERE. The idea of anything, including strength training, slowing down my progress towards that goal, bothers me immensely.
Serious question, what is that goal? If it's a number on a scale, then maybe I could see that you'd want to avoid the weights (although I'm still not convinced that you should - unless you're putting serious time into heavy lifts, you're not going to bulk-up).
When I started, I was 282 lbs. My initial goal was 190, but my doctor thinks that's too thin for my frame. Now I want to hit 205. But with that said, the number isn't as important as how I look in the mirror. The one consistent thing I've read over and over is that if you want flat abs, you can do crunches until the cows come home, but unless you get rid of the fat, you're shit out of luck. The diet and routine I've been using have been burning the fat off of me quite effectively. You can understand how I might be hesitant to continue doing something that's put the brakes on that.
When I started, I was 282 lbs. My initial goal was 190, but my doctor thinks that's too thin for my frame. Now I want to hit 205. But with that said, the number isn't as important as how I look in the mirror. The one consistent thing I've read over and over is that if you want flat abs, you can do crunches until the cows come home, but unless you get rid of the fat, you're shit out of luck. The diet and routine I've been using have been burning the fat off of me quite effectively. You can understand how I might be hesitant to continue doing something that's put the brakes on that.
Sure. Here's the thing - lifting does burn fat, remarkably well. It also replaces some of that lost fat with lean muscle. So, there's the possibility that you'll see a slowdown in how much *weight* you're losing (as you're also building muscle), but if anything, you'll see an increase in how much *fat* you're losing.
But hey, most important thing is to do what's right and what works for you.
The one consistent thing I've read over and over is that if you want flat abs, you can do crunches until the cows come home, but unless you get rid of the fat, you're sh*t out of luck.
+1. I know it's true for me. My core-strength and 6-pack visibility are largely independent.
This is what I've managed to do in four months. I'm so damn close, and I don't want to stop.
Sweet merciful crap - that's some amazing progress in ONLY FOUR MONTHS!!!!! So yeah - a slowdown is totally understandable right about now. Mix things up, and do some lifting - you'll get where you want to be with perseverance - just don't think that the last pounds are as easy to lose as the first bunch.... from experience they're a hell of a lot harder to get rid of.
Also, I would urge caution, Trichy. Rapid weight loss can literally destroy your gallbladder, to the point where it would need to be removed, and that is NO fun.
Alright, that's it; I'm getting back to basics. I've been going around in goddamn circles chasing the "best" workout routine for who knows how long, scouring every halfway credible scientific study on effective lifting protocols to the point where I have stopped working out. (I guess part of that had to do with buying a house, but if I'm being honest, I have to admit I damn near paralyzed myself trying to construct the most effective workout.) And you know what? I know better. I know there's no one single best routine or method: barbells, free-weights, machines, kettlebells, body-weight, HIIT, full-body routines, split routines, muscle isolation routines, compound exercises, isolation exercises, bilateral moves, unilateral moves - it doesn't f*cking matter as long as the program is comprehensive and followed consistently and safely.
So, yes, back to basics. I'm gonna do an 8-week progressive program that I did a year ago, involved kettlebell clean and press ladders, L-sit pull-up ladders, and swings. I'm gonna add in single-leg RDLs and goblet squats to round out the pulling/pushing movements. I'll do a variety day of push-up/pull-up/sit-up ladders, and try to get in some miles on the indoor track. Now that I'm more or less unpacked, I can get to it. I have a 35lb kettlebell that I'll be using, too; I completed the last 8 weeks with it, and could really use a heavier one at this point, but since it's been a while since I really lifted this thing regularly, a little practice with a lighter weight is probably a good thing. I think this has two distinct advantages over the bazillion other routines I tried: 1.), this is the only progression program I've ever stuck with. And I saw results. 2.), I really enjoy it. I love lifting kettlebells, and if I could marry pull-ups, my wife would have some competition. =P
Kettlebell? Dusted off.
Pull-up bar? Installed.
Floor space? Cleared.
Alright, sorry for the lengthy rant. Time to f*cking do this.
Also, I would urge caution, Trichy. Rapid weight loss can literally destroy your gallbladder, to the point where it would need to be removed, and that is NO fun.
Seeing my doc monthly. She suggested the program that I'm on, but also said she wanted to keep an eye on things. So far, everything's coming up Milhouse. Blood pressure? Down. Bad cholesterol? Down. Liver issues (I had a fatty liver and it was f*cking with its function)? Up. Gallbladder looks good. That was something she said she wanted to keep an eye on.
After considering all the advice here and talking to my dad and a few others, I've decided that I'm going to keep working out, and I'm changing my goal date to hit my target weight from September 1 to January 1. Whatever the scale says, as long as I'm sticking to my diet plan and working out, I'm not going to spontaneously begin erupting fat all over my body. I'm impatient, yes, but I can wait a bit longer if the result when I hit that target is a better one.
Alright, sorry for the lengthy rant. Time to f*cking do this.
I read your entire post once, then went back and read it again with "Eye of the Tiger" playing. It was awesome.
Also, I would urge caution, Trichy. Rapid weight loss can literally destroy your gallbladder, to the point where it would need to be removed, and that is NO fun.
You make that sound so much worse than it is. It won't destroy your gallbladder. What it actually does is encourage the formation of gallstones, which if they get big enough to cause a blockage can require removing the gallbladder even though the organ itself will still technically be perfectly healthy.
In any event he's already well past the point where it would become an issue, if it were going to. Although it is wise to keep in mind that if you were to gain the weight back the risk of stones jumps yet again. Think of it as good motivation to stay healthy!
So I decided to join the Starting Strength program. Some background info I've done some weight lifting in the past, but kinda on/off since college until recently. I always did isolation training (etc chest/tricep days) I had never heard of using compound exercises only. I could probably stand to lose 5 lbs (@ 170) and my cardio is horrendous.
Today was my first day. I had never done a deadlift, (non smith) squat, power clean, or press before, only bench press. Today was squat/bench press/dead lift. Everything except bench started at bar for first set. I tried to focus on form as much as possible. Also never did non-gloved workouts until today. I focused on correct grip position also and it seemed not to chafe my hands.
I added in a few abdominal exercises and 20m cardio at the end. They seem pretty separate from the regular exercises and doesn't seem to overlap. Question is, would throwing in wrist curls and lateral pulldowns slow down my progress. As I said I am new to almost all of these exercises but I am not sure if forearms and lats are worked out.
So I decided to join the Starting Strength program. Some background info I've done some weight lifting in the past, but kinda on/off since college until recently. I always did isolation training (etc chest/tricep days) I had never heard of using compound exercises only. I could probably stand to lose 5 lbs (@ 170) and my cardio is horrendous.
Today was my first day. I had never done a deadlift, (non smith) squat, power clean, or press before, only bench press. Today was squat/bench press/dead lift. Everything except bench started at bar for first set. I tried to focus on form as much as possible. Also never did non-gloved workouts until today. I focused on correct grip position also and it seemed not to chafe my hands.
I added in a few abdominal exercises and 20m cardio at the end. They seem pretty separate from the regular exercises and doesn't seem to overlap. Question is, would throwing in wrist curls and lateral pulldowns slow down my progress. As I said I am new to almost all of these exercises but I am not sure if forearms and lats are worked out.
What is your plan? By which I mean; what are you doing on what days?
So I decided to join the Starting Strength program. Some background info I've done some weight lifting in the past, but kinda on/off since college until recently. I always did isolation training (etc chest/tricep days) I had never heard of using compound exercises only. I could probably stand to lose 5 lbs (@ 170) and my cardio is horrendous.
Today was my first day. I had never done a deadlift, (non smith) squat, power clean, or press before, only bench press. Today was squat/bench press/dead lift. Everything except bench started at bar for first set. I tried to focus on form as much as possible. Also never did non-gloved workouts until today. I focused on correct grip position also and it seemed not to chafe my hands.
I added in a few abdominal exercises and 20m cardio at the end. They seem pretty separate from the regular exercises and doesn't seem to overlap. Question is, would throwing in wrist curls and lateral pulldowns slow down my progress. As I said I am new to almost all of these exercises but I am not sure if forearms and lats are worked out.
In the book, Rippetoe is fairly dismissive of lat pulldowns in favor of dips. YMMV and all that.
So I decided to join the Starting Strength program. Some background info I've done some weight lifting in the past, but kinda on/off since college until recently. I always did isolation training (etc chest/tricep days) I had never heard of using compound exercises only. I could probably stand to lose 5 lbs (@ 170) and my cardio is horrendous.
Today was my first day. I had never done a deadlift, (non smith) squat, power clean, or press before, only bench press. Today was squat/bench press/dead lift. Everything except bench started at bar for first set. I tried to focus on form as much as possible. Also never did non-gloved workouts until today. I focused on correct grip position also and it seemed not to chafe my hands.
I added in a few abdominal exercises and 20m cardio at the end. They seem pretty separate from the regular exercises and doesn't seem to overlap. Question is, would throwing in wrist curls and lateral pulldowns slow down my progress. As I said I am new to almost all of these exercises but I am not sure if forearms and lats are worked out.
Forearms and lats will be indirectly worked so there isn't really a need for additional exercises. I'd suggest simply doing whats programmed or adding some variation of pullups (isometric holds, ballistic etc).
For the past 8 months I have been participating in a twice weekly spinning class. Starts at 6 a.m. and goes for 45 minutes. To get on the bike and be ready for go time I need to roll out of bed by about 5 a.m. Thus far I have not been eating anything before class and just hitting it as hard as I can. Towards the end of the class I do feel like I am running a bit out of steam on the blood sugar side of things.
Is it OK / beneficial to train on an empty stomach? I know it can take up to an hour before anything you eat turns into useable fuel, right? Is there something to consider diet-wise the night before that would help? Any insight from the collective is appreciated.
Training fasted is my personal preference. I eat a banana around 4:30-4:45 and start lifting about an hour later. I simply can't eat get through a workout with anything more than that in my stomach.
I googled "fasted workout" and this was the first hit: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/monda...
I also do a banana about a half hour before my 6am workouts. Seems to be about the right amount of energy without any stomach problems. I do have a recovery shake basically immediately afterward though.
Is it OK / beneficial to train on an empty stomach? I know it can take up to an hour before anything you eat turns into useable fuel, right? Is there something to consider diet-wise the night before that would help? Any insight from the collective is appreciated.
Is it OK? Sure it is.
Would it better to eat something beforehand? Conventional training wisdom says yes.
Eating something the night before will have less of an impact, as that food has mostly already been digested by the time you climb onto the bike in the morning. Grabbing a quick something beforehand will be drip-feeding your energy stores by the end of the class. An apple or a banana as you roll out of bed might be a good idea - they're rich in easily digested carbs, quick to eat and require no preparation. A piece of wholewheat bread/toast with some peanut button on it is another good and easy option. Alternative plan is to turn up to spin class with a sports drink in your bottle instead of water.
I assume you eat a breakfast right afterwards too? Conventional training wisdom again suggests that you make sure that there's a good source of protein in there to build muscle in your recovery phase, as well as low-GI carbs to replenish what you burned off and keep you fueled through the rest of your morning.
As with all things fitness, there is also a school of thought that proposes that training on an empty stomach is itself a good idea, although again, there's folks that will decry that logic as flawed.
Thanks for the replies thus far. Hearing that it's not completely detrimental to train fasted is a load off my mind. I do eat a healthy breakfast immediately after a morning workout.
The sports drink option Jonman mentioned sounds viable.
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