Microsoft Surface

PaladinTom wrote:
Parallax Abstraction wrote:
When even one of Microsoft's strongest press evangelists says you're doing a crap job telling people what Windows RT is, you've got a real problem. As usual, Microsoft is completely bungling getting the message out in an elegant way. I still think calling the tablet version Windows RT was a stupid idea that does nothing to convey what it is or how it's different but based on the number of e-mails Thurrott is getting, Microsoft is not at all doing a good job telling people what it even is, much less why Surface is better than an iPad. They've got to get their act together fast.

MS has always had a branding/naming problem. From NT to XP to .NET to Live to Windows Phone Series. Who names things over there?!

They should have called it Surface and Surface Pro. Then there would be Windows 8, Windows 8 Pro, and Windows 8 Phone. Simple. Elegant.

This is asking a whole lot from the company that also prefers names such as Windows Phone 7.1 SDK April 2010 Toolkit R2 Refresh CTP 1.

But yeah, you're spot on.

I don't see that it IS better than an iPad. The screen isn't as good, the unit is extremely expensive, it's just as locked down as Apple's offerings, and you get stuck with Office, like it or not.

If you're going to put handcuffs on like that, you might as well get the nice shiny kind.

Pirate Bob wrote:
This is asking a whole lot from the company that also prefers names such as Windows Phone 7.1 SDK April 2010 Toolkit R2 Refresh CTP 1.

Is that actually a real name?!

Malor wrote:
I don't see that it IS better than an iPad. The screen isn't as good, the unit is extremely expensive, it's just as locked down as Apple's offerings, and you get stuck with Office, like it or not.

I think I'll probably stop following this thread now, as it mostly seems to be 3 or 4 guys pissing and moaning about the Surface...a device they've never actually seen or touched...But for the record, the current iPad (3) has no USB, no storage expansion, 1GB RAM, starts at 16GB flash storage, and can't be used as a Skateboard. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57533996-75/windows-chief-rides-surface-like-a-skateboard-literally/. It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57534066-75/microsoft-surface-beats-the-ipad-in-display-quality/) - as well as that now-obsolete-proprietary-dock-connector. Both at $499. So tell me again which one is better?

Teh display on the iPad also draws more power shortening the battery life, or so they say (info is probably in one of the above links).

I'm definitely getting one, and not because it is better or worse than the iPad. I just don't want an iPad. I want a tablet that integrates with my home network without the need to tweak anything. I know some Android apps are like that but that just makes the file browser able to attach to my network.

The Pro tablets will be just liek another computer on my network and that's basically what i want. Another computer, that's a tablet.

it's the FUTURE! and it's HERE!

The $499 Surface with RT has a lower resolutions screen (1366 x768) than the current iPad (2048x1536), albeit with a different aspect ratio. The Surface Pro, which will be able to run traditional Windows applications, will offer a 1920x1080. While it's entirely possible that the Surface may have a "better" screen, consider the source. For the rest, wait and see (possibly for GameGuru to drop some facts on us).

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Pirate Bob wrote:
This is asking a whole lot from the company that also prefers names such as Windows Phone 7.1 SDK April 2010 Toolkit R2 Refresh CTP 1.
Is that actually a real name?!

No, but the fact that you felt the need to ask and I had to look and check says something.

Yeah, I'm getting a little tired of it too, Symbiotic. I'll just leave it at saying that.

I can't wait to hear the opinions of the people on here who get them, though. I think that the screen resolution might not be much of an issue. I like high pixel density, but it's not the end all be all of a good screen. The iPhone 4's retina display was pretty darn awesome, but the Lumia 900's that I have now is pretty awesome, too. I have a laptop with a 10" or so screen at 1366x768 and it's not too bad. Battery life is starting to be something that I really think about, too. If I sacrifice some resolution for maybe 2 more hours of battery life, I would totally be behind that design choice.

I'm not really interested in Windows 8 for a desktop but for a tablet, definitely. I love lots of things about WP7 at the moment.

I'm waiting for the Pro version before I consider jumping in. It's just way more likely to do what I want.

If it doesn't then I'll be in the market for a good solidly powerful ultrabook.

Thin_J wrote:
I'm waiting for the Pro version before I consider jumping in. It's just way more likely to do what I want.

If it doesn't then I'll be in the market for a good solidly powerful ultrabook.

Ultrabooks are getting great and the prices are coming down. My roommate just picked up the HP Envy 4 ultrabook for less than $800. It's really nice and he quite likes it.

Scratched wrote:
Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Pirate Bob wrote:
This is asking a whole lot from the company that also prefers names such as Windows Phone 7.1 SDK April 2010 Toolkit R2 Refresh CTP 1.
Is that actually a real name?!

No, but the fact that you felt the need to ask and I had to look and check says something.

I actually typed almost that exact response before finishing reading the thread.

Yeah, not real, but I've seen a few developer product titles that aren't far off.

Curious, has there been any specs released yet in terms of what this thing has CPU and GPU wise? I just realised that I don't think I've ever seen anything like that and my Google-Fu may be failing me because it's late but I haven't managed to find anything. I know there's been an Unreal Engine demo running on it but has Microsoft talked about what gaming and heavy media capabilities it will have?

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Curious, has there been any specs released yet in terms of what this thing has CPU and GPU wise? I just realised that I don't think I've ever seen anything like that and my Google-Fu may be failing me because it's late but I haven't managed to find anything. I know there's been an Unreal Engine demo running on it but has Microsoft talked about what gaming and heavy media capabilities it will have?

It's a Tegra 3.

Here's a specs chart for the RT and Pro.

Much obliged! That would explain why that UE demo got running on it so fast.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Much obliged! That would explain why that UE demo got running on it so fast.

Probably that plus DirectX.

Symbiotic wrote:
Malor wrote:
I don't see that it IS better than an iPad. The screen isn't as good, the unit is extremely expensive, it's just as locked down as Apple's offerings, and you get stuck with Office, like it or not.

I think I'll probably stop following this thread now, as it mostly seems to be 3 or 4 guys pissing and moaning about the Surface...a device they've never actually seen or touched...But for the record, the current iPad (3) has no USB, no storage expansion, 1GB RAM, starts at 16GB flash storage, and can't be used as a Skateboard. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57533996-75/windows-chief-rides-surface-like-a-skateboard-literally/. It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57534066-75/microsoft-surface-beats-the-ipad-in-display-quality/) - as well as that now-obsolete-proprietary-dock-connector. Both at $499. So tell me again which one is better?

I don't think being critical is necessarily pissing and moaning. The iPad got a lot of crap (i.e. it's just a big iPod touch) before it was released.

The sad fact is that MS needs to come out of the gate VERY strong if they want to compete with iPad, Kindle and Nexus 7 in the short term. In my opinion, based on the info that's come out so far, I don't think Surface RT is a hit. I'm a Windows guy, and love the idea of a Windows tablet. The thing you left out about the iPad that it DOES have is a huge app ecosystem. For a very small software investment, my iPad can access all of my files, media, backups, printers, etc. in my home windows setup. And I've never wanted/needed to plug anything usb into my tablet. I just don't use it that way. A Windows RT tablet needs to offer me something better or significantly different for me to switch right now. (Surface Pro is a different story though...)

Blame Apple, but most people don't care about more rams, pixel density, or dual skate-board use. They want something with a nice screen that's fast and simple. With the confusion from even tech insiders, I'm not sure about the long term prospects of this device.

I'm rooting for Microsoft, but like Windows Phone 8 I think this strategy needs more time to cook.

Symbiotic wrote:
Malor wrote:
I don't see that it IS better than an iPad. The screen isn't as good, the unit is extremely expensive, it's just as locked down as Apple's offerings, and you get stuck with Office, like it or not.

I think I'll probably stop following this thread now, as it mostly seems to be 3 or 4 guys pissing and moaning about the Surface...a device they've never actually seen or touched...But for the record, the current iPad (3) has no USB, no storage expansion, 1GB RAM, starts at 16GB flash storage, and can't be used as a Skateboard. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57533996-75/windows-chief-rides-surface-like-a-skateboard-literally/. It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57534066-75/microsoft-surface-beats-the-ipad-in-display-quality/) - as well as that now-obsolete-proprietary-dock-connector. Both at $499. So tell me again which one is better?

The Kindle Fire?

I agree with your opinion, though.

It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...)

That's just bafflegab, there. Total bullsh*t, top to bottom. "Our display is better because giraffes!" would be just about as valid.

Malor wrote:
It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...)
That's just bafflegab, there. Total bullsh*t, top to bottom. "Our display is better because giraffes!" would be just about as valid.

Yes, it's a politician's answer.

Isn't the selling point for Windows RT tablets, at least right now, that we get a real version of office? The iPad, for me, has never been a good productivity tool. I don't like the way multi tasking works and all that. I could be swayed to get a Windows tablet if office was "real office" and multi tasking wasn't horrible. But, at that point, I'd rather have a Pro Tablet to get REAL windows.

I just don't know who this tablet is for.

Ulairi wrote:
I just don't know who this tablet is for.

It's for the millions of customers that don't see the need for a tablet to be a productivity tool, but could be swayed to get one that feels more tied into their desktop OS.

Jayhawker wrote:
but could be swayed to get one that feels more tied into their desktop OS.

Is it?

Not trying to be snarky (and it kind of sucks that I feel I need to say that. anyway...), but besides the branding advantages that slapping the windows name on it brings I can't think of much cross-over between a RT tablet and another windows device, even a full Win8 device. Once you've made a jump off the desktop you can land anywhere.

If the familiarity of Office is a big factor for a lot of people, MS could really shooting themselves in their collective foot with the native iOS and Android versions. They might be a few months out, but people who have tablets already might just wait and see what comes out, by which time they'll be staring down the iPad 4, a dozen new Android tablets, and even competition from their own Windows partners.

They will sell multiplatform Office by the truckload, sure, but preserving exclusivity to Windows platforms might have snared a hell of a lot of customers for the Surface.

Scratched wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
but could be swayed to get one that feels more tied into their desktop OS.

Is it?

Not trying to be snarky (and it kind of sucks that I feel I need to say that. anyway...), but besides the branding advantages that slapping the windows name on it brings I can't think of much cross-over between a RT tablet and another windows device, even a full Win8 device. Once you've made a jump off the desktop you can land anywhere.

Well, if you resisted your urge to be snarky then you would have realized I said "feels" more tied in. Microsoft would like to own the digital world, and they can't when Google and apple are using their presence in the smartphone and tablet market to make inroads on the desktop market.

And no matter how many power users complain about Windows 8, it will still be the dominant force among desktop PC's. And the money Apple is making with their phones and tablets is a sign that it is worth a try for Microsoft to latch on to that market.

I don't know how well their plan will work, and may never even get a Surface, and may decide to stick with Mac computers. But I can see what they are trying to do, and I'm interested.

Ulairi wrote:
I just don't know who this tablet is for.

People that want something both a couple hundred cheaper and lighter than the x86 stuff maybe? So people shopping iPads that might want to have the productivity stuff, or don't want to be in the Apple ecosystem for whatever reason?

But that's the market that apps will matter to most. Success of Surface RT probably depends on how fast that market comes up to speed.

MannishBoy wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
I just don't know who this tablet is for.

People that want something both a couple hundred cheaper and lighter than the x86 stuff maybe? So people shopping iPads that might want to have the productivity stuff, or don't want to be in the Apple ecosystem for whatever reason?

But that's the market that apps will matter to most. Success of Surface RT probably depends on how fast that market comes up to speed.

Well, I pre-ordered one. I would love a tablet that can actually run REAL office and run it so I don't need a laptop in addition to my PC. I don't use a lot of apps so that's a losing ball game (for me). I just need/want a good multi tasking experience, good office/productivity and Netflix, Hulu and Amazon VOD.

Debating - I have an Amazon gift card to help bring the price on this down a bit.

Or just the basic Surface? I'm mostly interested in this as a tablet, not a hybrid. But $150 more for extra memory and higher resoultion screen?

Hmm.

Pirate Bob wrote:
Debating - I have an Amazon gift card to help bring the price on this down a bit.

Or just the basic Surface? I'm mostly interested in this as a tablet, not a hybrid. But $150 more for extra memory and higher resoultion screen?

Hmm.

I'm debating that one too.
looks good but that dock is HUGE but somehow I don't mind.

groan wrote:
Pirate Bob wrote:
Debating - I have an Amazon gift card to help bring the price on this down a bit.

Or just the basic Surface? I'm mostly interested in this as a tablet, not a hybrid. But $150 more for extra memory and higher resoultion screen?

Hmm.

I'm debating that one too.
looks good but that dock is HUGE but somehow I don't mind.

I don't mind the dock either. It looks as though you can just leave a wireless keyboard/mouse dongle in the usb port on the dock and have them available as soon as you dock the tablet. Nice price too. I hadn't seen that one yet.

I'm not sure how gift cards are handled in the event of a return though. Do you just get full credit refunded? Or do they remember that some of it was Amazon space bucks.

Scratched wrote:
Malor wrote:
It does have a higher res display (though not necessarily better: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...)
That's just bafflegab, there. Total bullsh*t, top to bottom. "Our display is better because giraffes!" would be just about as valid.

Yes, it's a politician's answer.

If this thread were The Shark, the Fonz would have just jumped it...