CD Projekt's Upcoming Title: Cyberpunk

garion333 wrote:

However, for gaming, at this stage, it's best to set your dreams as small as possible. And then be pleasantly surprised when they're met or exceeded.

With gaming in its current state its a miracle when the game works at all.

Do you guys have a favorite radio station and song? I love the Principales station, rolling through the barrio at 3am in the rain with this song slaps.

ccoates wrote:

Driving sucks. One video I was watching described it as if you're constantly driving in snow. That's accurate. It should be a lot harder to flip a car and they should really tone down the near constant state of hydroplaning.

I was trying to think of a game that had some all-time awful driving mechanics that this came close to beating, but I can't remember what it was specifically. I feel like it was Sleeping Dogs though, didn't that game have a rep for some all-time garbage driving mechanics? (Some of the Just Cause games are also pretty yikes.)

CP2077 exists in that weird sweet spot for me of "game I could spend 30+ minutes extolling its myriad failures but that I played through twice and broadly enjoyed each time."

Prederick wrote:

CP2077 exists in that weird sweet spot for me of "game I could spend 30+ minutes extolling its myriad failures but that I played through twice and broadly enjoyed each time."

Sounds like a classic 7/10 game to me.

I never had an issue with the driving and found it enjoyable. I also didn't try to break the laws of physics they have in the game. I didn't try to take corners at 80+ mph. When i came to a turn i would slow down to around 45-50 and then speed back up in the straightaways. This wasn't like other games with driving where you could just press W nonstop and navigate without issue.

Sleeping Dogs' driving was fine as long as you used a controller. It was abysmal with a mouse and keyboard, which is how I found myself playing it a week ago and quickly realized that was a major mistake.

ranalin wrote:

I never had an issue with the driving and found it enjoyable. I also didn't try to break the laws of physics they have in the game. I didn't try to take corners at 80+ mph. When i came to a turn i would slow down to around 45-50 and then speed back up in the straightaways. This wasn't like other games with driving where you could just press W nonstop and navigate without issue.

The update to driving where it became more responsive at lower frame rates was a big help.

Truly, driving on console, and I was playing a Series X which was managing 30 fps+ at almost all times, was borked in the more powerful cars where you'd be on a skate rink as soon as you put your foot on the gas. The problem with driving wasn't just trying to go 100 mph in a crowded city, but honest to gawd trying to drive normally at all where you'd end up overcorrecting everything even at lower speeds because the game wasn't receiving or interpreting your inputs properly. I realize you didn't experience this, but a lot of people did.

That sucks. It's like they intentionally made two different games.

Alien Love Gardener wrote:
Prederick wrote:

CP2077 exists in that weird sweet spot for me of "game I could spend 30+ minutes extolling its myriad failures but that I played through twice and broadly enjoyed each time."

Sounds like a classic 7/10 game to me.

I really like the game, but yeah. Agree with both of these, haha.

ranalin wrote:

I never had an issue with the driving and found it enjoyable. I also didn't try to break the laws of physics they have in the game. I didn't try to take corners at 80+ mph. When i came to a turn i would slow down to around 45-50 and then speed back up in the straightaways. This wasn't like other games with driving where you could just press W nonstop and navigate without issue.

Lucky for you, I suppose. For me it's like steering a boat on pavement and VERY hard not to kill pedestrians, even at low speeds. This weirdly applies to some of the "best" and most expensive cars in the game. You'd think, this costs a ton, it should handle better, but overall that's not true.

There are also several quests that involve driving fast, so you can't beat them unless you're trying to break the laws of physics. And it's super easy to spin out and hit an invincible palm tree or run over five pedestrians and alert the cops, resulting in doing them over and over.

Motorcycles in general handle well, but there are some quests you can't do on a motorcycle. I wish they let you, it'd be hilarious to give some of these characters a ride on the back of your bike.

garion333 wrote:

The problem with driving wasn't just trying to go 100 mph in a crowded city, but honest to gawd trying to drive normally at all where you'd end up overcorrecting everything even at lower speeds because the game wasn't receiving or interpreting your inputs properly. I realize you didn't experience this, but a lot of people did.

100%. There's a mission where you can deliver a kidnapped person or just let them go, and I never take the driving option simply because it means I don't have to try and navigate around.

ranalin wrote:

That sucks. It's like they intentionally made two different games.

I was watching some videos about the fallout (I avoided most coverage on purpose until recently) and it was just typical hype and hubris, apparently. They didn't have much experience developing for the console market, and didn't test it properly. So they intentionally hid console problems from reviewers for sales reasons, but it doesn't seem like they made them bad on purpose, so to speak. Lucky for us console folks? Haha.

Maybe I can just think of it as a low-key campaign to encourage running everywhere. It's important to stay fit in a cyber dystopia.

I rejected River as a romance option and he has now cursed me with his gun.

I can't remove the quest item flag, so it's permanently in my inventory and can't be sold or stashed. Which means I can't fill out the stash wall, cry.

He also now hangs up all my calls. Get over it, dude!

I'd romanced Judy already before he came after me, and I was surprised that there wasn't any contextual dialogue changes, or the option to just tell him he was barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

Prederick wrote:

I'd romanced Judy already before he came after me, and I was surprised that there wasn't any contextual dialogue changes, or the option to just tell him he was barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

Apparently you can romance as many characters as possible and it doesn't change anything gameplay or story-wise, but that was also my thinking, ha. I guess other than the epilogues they don't affect much.

I finally got to the end! I'm saving my game before the point of no return. All my griping aside, I did enjoy this game for the past few weeks. And I'll probably play it again.

The art direction, worldbuilding, and writing in the game is often excellent. Even if you just play some of the better missions like on a list like these:

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-best-quests/

https://www.thegamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-best-side-quests/

It's worth it. You can actually finish the game fairly early, around level 20 if you wanted, so it's not like you HAVE to grind out every mission and max your stats/level cap.

The voice acting, dialogue, and shards (especially the shards) aren't ALL gold, but a lot of it is very good. There's stuff you can critique or criticize, but I think you can tell that the story and art of the game really had direction. I don't always agree with the characters or their philosophies, but I still found the story intriguing.

It tackles a lot of interesting themes and it's a fairly harsh world, but not in a way I found tedious and grimdark like some comics/movies I dislike that just come across as immaturely "edgy". For the most part you and the people in the world seem focused on survival and getting by, instead of trying to save the world.

It's fun despite the jankiness, and I think a lot of us complain because of all the wasted potential and technical flaws holding it back.

I really think it simply comes down to design and half baked features. They tried to be an everything game and instead looked like an everything game that was as well baked as Daikatana. No Man's Sky? I don't have a good comp. It's pretty unique to have such a mystifying mix of high and low quality.

Of course the marketing was a big reason behind the backlash.

Anyway, around and around this discussion goes.

Anyway, around and around this discussion goes.
And where it ends nobody knows

Hey man. No man's sky is pretty good these days.

strangederby wrote:

Hey man. No man's sky is pretty good these days.

Yes, now, after years of continual development.

Maybe patch 1.3 tho

I don't think it's ever going to be what they promised in the hype, or they'll commit to it in the same way Hello Games did, but it's still a pretty good game that's worth playing as-is, IMO. It's just not and will never be the best game ever.

I really hope they don't abandon it completely for a significant expansion and/or sequel. It's just such a rich world. It's sold pretty well even in the state it's in, so even after Witcher 4 maybe there's still hope.

I played through a few endings, and they really hit me. I think it might also be the first time you see your character in an up-close third person perspective. And that had a strong effect on me! You never really see your character's face up close, even when riding a motorcycle or in a mirror, so there were details I just plain forgot about during character creation. I can see it being intentional too, because at that point you no longer have control of V, you're truly just watching their fate unfold.

I'm not sure it trumps how I might have felt more connected to the character seeing it from that perspective in other cutscenes regularly throughout the game, but it did have a punch to it, so I can understand the decision. I'm torn on whether them adding that in the future would be good or bad.

There's one ending fans seem to want/consider "canon", but I actually think

Spoiler:

that the ending where Judy/your partner leaves you, you're a legend of the Afterlife but you're still dying, and about to do a big heist on a space station

feels the most appropriate. Nothing in the game before the end is *ever* straightforwardly happy-ish, and it just felt the most appropriate for the character. Plus in a pragmatic way it's the best setup for an expansion or sequel.

Spoiler:

I mean, when you think about it, the entire first game takes place over what? A month? Depending how much time you spend skipping time? V with 2-3 months left to live could still do a lot of damage, get a lot done, and even struggle to live even if it ultimately ends in failure.

This is an interesting list of bugs and annoyances:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/136xD2FUnmC8RbzR7W0AecoecycGa9nWfJy2ws52G2-o/edit?usp=drive_open&ouid=104116156545812337536

Some are really just nitpicks and unlikely to be fixed, but I'd welcome some of them being patched or tweaked. Along with the author's recommended mods to tweak a lot of those (I'm on Xbox, no mods for me, sniff):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LSlbfonhlGqt0tCg9O5ieuzTw_HHVVOs8gEJ1Q4T6mk/edit

Maybe once the game is in its final form it'd be worth a try at the PC version just to try some of the mods.

The lead quest writer mentioned in a stream that crowd AI is his least favorite part of the game, so tweaking that seems likely at least. If they also adjusted police, traffic, and other non-combat AI in general that'd be great for immersion.

Something that might be easier than a full transmog system would just being able to add mod slots to gear, even it costs a lot. That would make almost any clothing item viable even late game, and would give a lot more freedom for what to wear. Plus, it'd discourage save scumming (when you pickup some items the slots are random, so some players save scum to get 3-4). And since versions of the items with 0-4 slots already seem to exist, maybe less work for them.

I'd also like to be able to change the look of weapons. Sometimes I'll keep a gun I like the color scheme of even if it's worse, haha. The fisher price looking Lexingtons in the beginning being an example.

Some things I did to keep the game interesting for myself:

Hack through walls and shoot through walls are broken, in terms of game balance. Number of walls just doesn't matter. Not sure how tough it'd be for them to make it so you could only shoot through one wall, or decrease the damage a lot more so you're not headshotting people through an entire building full of walls and objects (basically if an enemy is highlighted, you can shoot it with a charged weapon). So I tried my best to only use it when a single wall separated me and the enemy.

Crafted weapons and iconic weapons are fun but can get really overpowered really quickly. So I started going in with like a simple pistol or melee weapon, then using the guns I found on enemies to clear areas. Generally those weapons will be scaled to the enemies in a lot more challenging fashion, and it makes you use guns you might not normally try. "Ho ho ho, now I've got a machine gun."

I saw this in a YouTube video, but there's an unmarked/unnamed item in your inventory on the all items page that's an arm. Clicking on it makes the holographic-ish Silverhand arm overlay appear on your left arm. It's pretty fun to see, even if it has no effect on gameplay. Plus from a roleplaying perspective it even makes sense! Really hope they don't fix that, since it does seem like it's just however they implement the arm for cutscenes and not meant for general use.

https://youtu.be/uCp-Q4t5_pA?t=125

For the free DLC/expansions:

I hope the new gigs are multi-stage ones. Think The Pickup or The Heist. Those are some of the most interesting/challenging missions, and a lot of fun. If it's just like a few suspected crime instances that'd be really boring.

I wouldn't mind more closure on T-Bug. Even if it's like most things and it isn't a happy ending, that voice actor crushes it and spending more time with the character would be great.

Anything else my expectations are pretty modest. Some bug fixes and tweaks are always welcome, of course.

On a personal note, the game is borderline unplayable for me without the color blind mode active. I really appreciate they added it, but the three modes could be further tweaked for more contrast. Some colors still don't have enough contrast or blend into some backgrounds too easily.

Game was pretty stable overall for me, EXCEPT when opening the map. Definitely the #1 cause of crashes for me for some bizarre reason. I just started saving before I accessed the map or fast travel, and cried when I forgot if I just did a lot of work, ha.

Before it came out I was expecting a game like The Witcher 3 but cyberpunk.

I was expecting more of this.

How that didn't become one of the starting tracks: disillusioned/disgraced psycho hunter. Sad!

Rezzy wrote:

I was expecting more of this.

How that didn't become one of the starting tracks: disillusioned/disgraced psycho hunter. Sad!

Haha, I managed to never even watch that!

Someone previously asked what our favorite music is, but I mostly muted it. There's some good tracks, but in-game it seems like all the NPCs and car radios are on the same songs and stations 80-90% of the time and I just got tired of hearing it, and didn't feel like stopping a fight to channel surf.

I saw one headline comparing it to Vice City, but I remember Vice City being better about that, like it felt more like the stations were actually stations, and went on even when you weren't listening.

Something else they could tweak that would really help immersion, I think!

More descriptive/intuitive channel names would be nice too, but maybe I just don't listen to the radio much and have forgotten a lot of the shorthand for genres.

Spoiler:

In one of the endings you can stop and pump a song over the Arasaka P.A. system and I found that funny, however.

Just finished every ending! I really enjoyed each of them, it's a bummer the fanbase in general seems to hate them all.

Spoiler:

And my favorite is still Path of Glory, even if it's not the most optimistic one. The Don't Fear the Reaper variant especially. Given the meta of the worldbuilding, reading as many shards as I could, how other quests/stories panned out, it's a bittersweet and often tragic universe. It's just not really a story that gives out many, if any, clearly happy endings. So for me, they all worked and felt appropriate in a way. Path of Glory with the space heist still seems the best one for DLC or a sequel, too.

I liked them enough I'm even torn on whether I enjoyed it on an 8/10 level even though it's definitely a quirky/flaky/buggy/messy and firmly 7/10 game, haha.

It's interesting to compare the male and female voice work for V. They're both really good, but I think the female V performed some of the lines in a way that was less cocky/more vulnerable at times, so in general her tone had more variety. I wonder how much of that was the individual actor interpreting the material, and how much was explicit direction from the developers.

strangederby wrote:

Hey man. No man's sky is pretty good these days.

It is still not the game that was claimed during pre-release.

The rehabilitation of NMS’s reputation fascinates me. It’s like if a chef promised the most amazing steak dinner, then after years of updates to the failed dinner, he eventually delivered a very good rigatoni. Finally some good food, yes, but it’s like people forgot what they were originally promised.

*Legion* wrote:
strangederby wrote:

Hey man. No man's sky is pretty good these days.

It is still not the game that was claimed during pre-release.

The rehabilitation of NMS’s reputation fascinates me. It’s like if a chef promised the most amazing steak dinner, then after years of updates to the failed dinner, he eventually delivered a very good rigatoni. Finally some good food, yes, but it’s like people forgot what they were originally promised.

How much do you think the current fanbase and the original disillusioned fanbase overlap? The way they kept iterating and improving the game, drawing in more folks each time, it'd make sense to me that newer fans wouldn't have the same expectations, so wouldn't really have forgotten anything so to speak.

Apparently CD Red said they're developing sequels to the Witcher and Cyberpunk in tandem going forward, as recently as a month or so ago, so I still have hope a sequel could really expand on some of the promise. And I'm still looking forward to DLC.

I started a Street Kid playthrough, and the life paths don't matter much but you do find out interesting lore sometimes. Like it's the only life path that actually clarifies why Dex took a two year "break".

ccoates wrote:

How much do you think the current fanbase and the original disillusioned fanbase overlap?

Good question. Hard to say, but it seems like every comment about NMS is about how “it’s good now”, which makes the person speaking sound like they were around for the beginning.

I’m sure plenty of people jumped into the game later, and enjoy the game based on what it became. rather than what was promised. And that’s great for them.

But every discussion about games releasing without all the features they were promised to have inevitably has a “well No Man’s Sky got fixed” comment, which ignores how much goalpost-moving was involved in that “fixing”.

To bring this back onto thread topic, I’ve suspected that the endgame for CP2077 is something similar: the paid expansions turning the whole game into a more complete product, but one that still doesn’t deliver any of the unfilled promises from pre-launch. And eventually people will buy “complete editions” of Cyberpunk in Steam sales and the game’s reputation will evolve the way NMS’s has. Just in time for CDPR to start selling their next game.

*Legion* wrote:
strangederby wrote:

Hey man. No man's sky is pretty good these days.

It is still not the game that was claimed during pre-release.

The rehabilitation of NMS’s reputation fascinates me. It’s like if a chef promised the most amazing steak dinner, then after years of updates to the failed dinner, he eventually delivered a very good rigatoni. Finally some good food, yes, but it’s like people forgot what they were originally promised.

I agree with you, but I don't think the metaphor is quite right.

It's like choosing from the menu a dinner of medium steak, chips and green beans... but being served a meal that actually consists of an undercooked steak, chips that are much too thick and no green beans.

You send the food back, and half an hour later receive a properly cooked steak, some slightly thinner chips, but the green beans are still missing.