CD Projekt's Upcoming Title: Cyberpunk

it doesn't matter...

Vector wrote:

So I'm clear, is this a conversation specifically about crunch as we know it or overtime in general? I work at a project-based manufacturing shop and we often have overtime when nearing the end of a project but it is handled very differently than the way other industries seem to go about it.

1.5 Time

Worth pointing out that CDPR are paying their devs overtime, in accordance with Polish law. The legal and regulatory environment is a major factor.

Also, if anyone hasn't seen this great special Night City Wire episode about how CDPR does Russian localisation, it is worth a watch. It's in Russian, but is subtitled.

Happy Dave wrote:

Worth pointing out that CDPR are paying their devs overtime, in accordance with Polish law. The legal and regulatory environment is a major factor.

Thank you. This is important. I've heard horror stories from American devs that amount to forced incredible overtime and not being paid overtime rates. It's inconceivable that happens in other parts of the world.

Unfortunately more common than it should be in the UK too - we have stronger labour protections than the US, just about, but they've also been weakened and undermined by successive Tory governments for thirty years.

Hah, there's a car called Aerondight in there.

I just hope that they included a Ciri Easter Egg.

This is the first I have seen where the vehicles actually look fun. Before this they have always looked pretty bad in game-play and press members who got to play the vertical slice back in 2019 said it wasn't very good. Looks much better now.

I am going to reserve judgement. I have never found a car to be fun or good to drive in an RPG so I am not optimistic.

farley3k wrote:

I am going to reserve judgement. I have never found a car to be fun or good to drive in an RPG so I am not optimistic.

That's why I'm excited for first-person motorcycles.

Riding a horse in RPGs can be fun (IMO Skyrim,Witcher,Conan) . But it is just the riding and looking at the scenery as you fly by, once combat is thrown into the picture it stops being fun. Then I just want to demount and fight.
I have no doubt driving, weaving around traffic will be enjoyable, but they have show a lot of car chases involving gunfire, that will be the real test.

farley3k wrote:

I am going to reserve judgement. I have never found a car to be fun or good to drive in an RPG so I am not optimistic.

I REALLY liked the combat in Mad Max. Weirdly the follow-up, Rage 2, didn’t have good car combat. So yeah, not a lot of precedent for good integration of vehicles in RPGs.

I feel a little deflated after watching that video. That just looked like a glossier version of GTA V's driving.

I'm not clear what makes this element of the game special/better/unique/more enjoyable.

farley3k wrote:

I am going to reserve judgement. I have never found a car to be fun or good to drive in an RPG so I am not optimistic.

I'd go further. Sometimes driving isn't fun or good in dedicated driving games (Need for Speed: Shift 2, I'm looking right at you).

I'll settle for it being serviceable, and none too prominent. For me, driving quickly becomes the most tedious element of open world games. The one exception to this 'Red Dead Redemption 2' because of the changing environments and the fact that there was often an activity available to break up the monotony.

In particular, I hope the races are entire optional. I have rarely found these to be any good in non-driving games, because these seem to be heavily scripted.

Vector wrote:
farley3k wrote:

I am going to reserve judgement. I have never found a car to be fun or good to drive in an RPG so I am not optimistic.

I REALLY liked the combat in Mad Max. Weirdly the follow-up, Rage 2, didn’t have good car combat. So yeah, not a lot of precedent for good integration of vehicles in RPGs.

I would argue that the vehicle combat in the first Rage game was more fun than in Rage 2.

Vector wrote:
Happy Dave wrote:

Worth pointing out that CDPR are paying their devs overtime, in accordance with Polish law. The legal and regulatory environment is a major factor.

Thank you. This is important. I've heard horror stories from American devs that amount to forced incredible overtime and not being paid overtime rates. It's inconceivable that happens in other parts of the world.

About that...

f*ck. That.

Is anyone considering voting with their dollars here? I'm conflicted.

I don't want to support this managerial incompetence. If I take that to its logical conclusion, I shouldn't do many things (watch movies with John Lassiter's imprint? What about Miramax films? Steve Jobs was an atrociously abusive boss but I haven't junked my Macbook.).

What are others doing?

This was the game that was going to make me upgrade to a 3080. The idea of just picking it up used for the XBone or PS4 isn’t looking too bad now.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Is anyone considering voting with their dollars here? I'm conflicted.

I don't want to support this managerial incompetence. If I take that to its logical conclusion, I shouldn't do many things (watch movies with John Lassiter's imprint? What about Miramax films? Steve Jobs was an atrociously abusive boss but I haven't junked my Macbook.).

What are others doing?

I think it's too late to vote with your wallet as I'm sure they have a bazillion of preorders already and unless it gets bad reviews it's likely to make gangbusters for them.

I'm not suggesting you should go ahead and buy it, that's up to you, but your one sale is not going to tip things at this point. Signal boosting the crunch time reports and whatnot is probably more effective. And engaging with CDPR itself directly.

Fwiw, I haven't bought the game and am waiting for a bunch of reasons, namely their issues with LBGTQ+ issues prior to this game (exaggerated or not) and with some of the art and PR. I tend to be a bit more willing to forgive for cultural differences, but CDPR and Atlus are both on my naughty list right now.

I'm also waiting because I'm not certain they're going to pull off the combat, something I've always found poorly implemented in their games.

between this and the trans issue earlier in the games cycle I am wondering is this game developer more prone to bad management or are we just hearing more about it?

farley3k wrote:

between this and the trans issue earlier in the games cycle I am wondering is this game developer more prone to bad management or are we just hearing more about it?

I've always assumed that their sh*tty attitude to LGBT stuff was a reflection of where LGBT issues sit in Polish culture.

farley3k wrote:

between this and the trans issue earlier in the games cycle I am wondering is this game developer more prone to bad management or are we just hearing more about it?

It's just you. CDPR and GOG have been in the news for terrible handling of LGBT issues for more or less as long as they've existed now.

Jonman wrote:
farley3k wrote:

between this and the trans issue earlier in the games cycle I am wondering is this game developer more prone to bad management or are we just hearing more about it?

I've always assumed that their sh*tty attitude to LGBT stuff was a reflection of where LGBT issues sit in Polish culture.

People more well-travelled than me know more about this. I don't want to be supporting a 90's-style approach to serious cultural discussion. Games (at least AAA games) will find a way to let you down!

There are practical reasons for waiting as mentioned above. And, of course, we'd all be frozen if every consumer choice were weighed with great solemnity.

I was starting to get excited for this, my first big RPG purchase at launch. Even preordered the guidebook because I'm currently on a cyberpunk kick in my other media consumption right now (books, shows), probably because of the state of the world. The more I learn about the toxic work culture the more it is bothering me.

I am also on the not pre-order train. I am sure I will like the game and I know voting with my money doesn't mean anything because they have already gone gold in pre-orders only.

I am waiting on reviews to say if there are any major issues either gameplay, story or bad takes on any number of topics.

It would be nice to be able to ethically buy a videogame that is not from a small indie team.

For those who are curious, a user at Era compiled the trans controversies from CDPR, which includes the recent cosplay mess.

an excellent link i shall happily keep for later, thanks!

This game and that company can firmly go f*ck themselves sideways

garion333 wrote:

For those who are curious, a user at Era compiled the trans controversies from CDPR, which includes the recent cosplay mess.

So I had a nicely worded yet likely blithering paragraph about game theory, the universe/planet/life/humans and our observed place (and failings) therein. When I realized regardless what I have observed/experienced that I am largely ignorant. So honest question:

What scenario is the best possible outcome for the parties involved and how do we get there?

Note: I will be more than happy to take this to D&D.

Do you mean as in CDPR and their problematic treatment of trans folks?

I think the end goal begins with "please stop fetishizing trans bodies."

How we get there is dialogue.

garion333 wrote:

Do you mean as in CDPR and their problematic treatment of trans folks?

I think the end goal begins with "please stop fetishizing trans bodies."

How we get there is dialogue.

So from an abstract view, Party One is expecting Party Two to act in a particular way. Party One and Party Two are part of a larger Party* that may or may not agree with those expectations. Party One and Party Two attempt to confabulate, but appear to be at an impasse either through unwillingness or inability to. How do the Parties (et al.) move past what appears to be zero-sum thinking and reach the best possible outcome for all?

* This is society and the world at large; segment as you wish.

The path forward should be discussion, yes; but obstinance of all parties appears to be in the way. So if we were to take this game as an inflection point, what would need to be done to allow the best outcome for all?

Note: I am by no means attempting to imply who is Party One or Party Two; feel free to plug in your own bias(es).