CD Projekt's Upcoming Title: Cyberpunk

Rezzy wrote:

I never finished it but I had lots of fun playing and will revisit with a fresh playthrough at some point. The biggest issue for me was the discord in the world and the story they were telling.
They write a tight story with imminent doom and consequences and a feeling of dread... and then drop that in an open world where you can go literal in-game months without checking in on some NPC just patiently waiting for you to stumble up to them and continue the story.

That dissonance is a bit odd, in terms of how the main story has a sense of urgency but the gameplay really doesn't. Rushing players through a world full of so many interesting details would have been worse, IMO, so I think it's an acceptable compromise in terms of game conceits.

I do think the balance swings in the other direction when the game design outright nags you to do stuff like collect all the cars, with the fixers aggressively pestering you to buy them whenever you enter a new area.

Not having to rush between quests and being able to take my time to admire the world itself? Fun! Being hounded to collect over fifty cars before I die with the intrusiveness and frequency of pop-up ads? Less fun, I'd say. To the point of where they've now patched it to reduce how often you get those calls.

ccoates wrote:

That dissonance is a bit odd, in terms of how the main story has a sense of urgency but the gameplay really doesn't. Rushing players through a world full of so many interesting details would have been worse, IMO, so I think it's an acceptable compromise in terms of game conceits.

I do think the balance swings in the other direction when the game design outright nags you to do stuff like collect all the cars, with the fixers aggressively pestering you to buy them whenever you enter a new area.

Not having to rush between quests and being able to take my time to admire the world itself? Fun! Being hounded to collect over fifty cars before I die with the intrusiveness and frequency of pop-up ads? Less fun, I'd say. To the point of where they've now patched it to reduce how often you get those calls.

My problem with the game world was that - for me - it wasn't full of interesting details. There were certainly some great locations in the dense, busy heart of Night City (everything became more and more sparse the further away from the centre I travelled). But I struggle to think of interesting details.

For me, this was a city of locked doors, or vending machines, and of fast food lying around on seemingly every surface. I've said this elsewhere in this thread, but I didn't come across anything that surprised and/or delighted me. For example, when I think back to GTA IV, I remember experience when I discovered that they'd made actual shows for the in-game TV channels and theatre, and that they'd created the QUB3D arcade game.

However, the other thing I didn't really experience in Cyberpunk 2077 was the feeling of my story being intruded on by the game (something I definitely felt in GTA IV whenever my cousin, Roman called). I simply ignored anything to do with vehicles, as - IIRC - there where never any missions where my choice of vehicle mattered. Also, once I'd sufficiently upgraded my V's cyberdeck and a couple of weapons, I didn't feel any need to complete more missions from the Fixers. The rewards on offer were of no additional benefit to me.

Of course, this economic problem is common to all RPGs. Eventually, any player who doesn't focus almost exclusively on main missions ends up with more money than they can usefully spend. This happened to me in Skyrim. It happened to me in Red Dead Redemption 2. And it happened to me in Fallout 3.

Tim Rogers can be a tough pill to swallow because of his idiosyncratic talking method (which is not how he normally speaks, btw), but this here is a god tier video analysis of Cyberpunk 2077.

In one of the vids he mentions that Cyberpunk is a game with an open world and not actually an open world game. I think that pretty much nails it in one.

I can't put my finger on just why, but Tim's "review voice" doesn't bother me but instead just adds to the entertainment of his rather eccentric review style. I love his video reviews. It also helps that he's actually quite insightful.

He's a genius. Straight up.

In case anyone else is like me and not familiar with this person, the video is the first in a very, very, very long playlist and comes with instructions:

This video is absolutely not intended to watch in one sitting. As always, we strongly encourage you to consider this video a mini-series.

They're over 10 hours long combined. It's structured like a branching/choose-your-own-adventure... meta review? Which I think depending on the person will feel clever, self-indulgent, or both, but definitely not something everyone is going to find palatable.

Forewarned is forearmed.

ccoates wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

and am continually amazed at the longevity of the axe being actively ground down in here over a game that was in my personal experience, functional to decent technically with a good interesting story.

I think it's only amazing if you ignore that not everyone had or is having a functional and decent experience. Like ranalin points out, it varies a lot and not everyone was so lucky. I'd put myself in the mostly positive category but I still had a pretty buggy experience with regular crashes. Some of which were pretty awkward, like my repeated crashes/lockups on the secret ending that doesn't let you save. crying emoji.

Even post 1.31 some folks are still getting stuck on main questlines like Transmission because the butcher shop NPCs won't load, meaning they literally can't progress any further in the game story. Some non-main quests also have similar issues, but at least those you can skip or just solve by murdering everyone if the quest scripting breaks for some reason.

Calling it axe grinding is a lot easier, I think, if you didn't experience the issues people are or were frustrated with.

But.. it's a bad experience they had over a year ago. If it's that bad... why keep having it?

I recognize it's a me thing. I keep coming here looking for news because I enjoyed what I had before and would like more. If it had been terrible, I wouldn't still be here to talk about it a year later. I just don't get the mindset.

I don't know how many people are still actively upset but the post-mortem analysis is fascinating. It's a classic fiasco story, made more acute by the stellar success of their prior project. It's a Shyamalan-esque trajectory.

thrawn82 wrote:

But.. it's a bad experience they had over a year ago. If it's that bad... why keep having it?

I recognize it's a me thing. I keep coming here looking for news because I enjoyed what I had before and would like more. If it had been terrible, I wouldn't still be here to talk about it a year later. I just don't get the mindset.

Some people are still waiting on fixes to finish the game they bought, and some people are new players running into issues.

For myself and some of the more active responders in this thread, it was a fun but flawed experience, and we're looking forward to potential improvements and additions.

And there are also folks who never have problems, in which case... of course they'd have fewer negative experiences to discuss.

With the flip side of that being people who had an absolutely terrible experience, so they have more negative views.

But even for people who had an overall positive experience, we don't all agree on which parts were positive. Which in a lot of interesting ways reflects the design of the game itself.

So IMO your original response felt like it's dismissively lumping all those discussions together as axe grinding. With the same logic someone could equally say if that's your perception of the responses here... why do you keep coming back to the thread? If it's that bad... why keep reading it?

Which wouldn't be a very critical or interesting take, right?

ccoates wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

But.. it's a bad experience they had over a year ago. If it's that bad... why keep having it?

I recognize it's a me thing. I keep coming here looking for news because I enjoyed what I had before and would like more. If it had been terrible, I wouldn't still be here to talk about it a year later. I just don't get the mindset.

Some people are still waiting on fixes to finish the game they bought, and some people are new players running into issues.

For myself and some of the more active responders in this thread, it was a fun but flawed experience, and we're looking forward to potential improvements and additions.

And there are also folks who never have problems, in which case... of course they'd have fewer negative experiences to discuss.

With the flip side of that being people who had an absolutely terrible experience, so they have more negative views.

But even for people who had an overall positive experience, we don't all agree on which parts were positive. Which in a lot of interesting ways reflects the design of the game itself.

So IMO your original response felt like it's dismissively lumping all those discussions together as axe grinding. With the same logic someone could equally say if that's your perception of the responses here... why do you keep coming back to the thread? If it's that bad... why keep reading it?

Which wouldn't be a very critical or interesting take, right?

I mean, mostly I was reacting to "this game is the same as star citizen" which still really does just feel like axe grinding or horse kicking if you go read the first page of this thread. it was a moment of weakness expressing some frustration. I apologize.

thrawn82 wrote:

I mean, mostly I was reacting to "this game is the same as star citizen" which still really does just feel like axe grinding or horse kicking if you go read the first page of this thread. it was a moment of weakness expressing some frustration. I apologize.

*thumbs up emoji*

Sorry I took that the wrong way.

Looking at the overall design of the game and my personal experience with it so far, I've noticed a few things:

- It's hard to relate to or even like many of the characters, including V: everyone is putting up a hard-bitten front most of the time. There's an excess of attitude with a capital A and I get a lot of that stems from the source material which really revels in its comic book ridiculousness. There are quieter character moments to be had such as side quests with potential love interests but even those are pretty brief and superficial. I went "all the way" with Panam and I'm even sure I really liked her nor the whole sub-plot with her nomad family.

- I can't quite put my finger on why the RPG system doesn't have the same compulsive drive for progression as in other similar games. I think perhaps there are too many skill nodes within each main attribute branch and very few of them feel impactful.

- The melee combat system is definitely under-cooked and I regret specializing in blades over firearms.

- The open world is gorgeous and the seamless streaming of each main district (provided you have the necessary hardware) can be a real joy. But in this regard it's also missing that je ne sais quoi... probably a combination of locked doors, empty buildings and throwaway NPCs/bystanders.

Wrong thread!

NathanialG wrote:

Anyone else having trouble preloading Fortza 5 on PC?

Preloading Forza games is another promised feature of Cyberpunk that never materialized.

*Legion* wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

Anyone else having trouble preloading Fortza 5 on PC?

Preloading Forza games is another promised feature of Cyberpunk that never materialized.

No.

ccoates wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Did you mention the word "safe" in relation to Cyberpunk and communication/release date?!?

Yeah, you right. I guess a meant a minimum of three months is a safe bet. But if they dropped 1.4 in November along with some neat DLCs that'd be pretty nice.

Cyberpunk 2077 fixes and free DLC have all been delayed until 2022

An update to the Cyberpunk 2077 development roadmap has revealed that all "updates, improvements, and free DLCs" for Cyberpunk 2077 have now been pushed into 2022. The fixes and new content had previously been set to arrive before the end of 2021.

New roadmap:

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/37298/our-commitment

IMAGE(https://static.cdprojektred.com/cms.cdprojektred.com/crystal-news/edcbce669da74fd7e8dce79b25d950a46dd1f752.jpg)

I admit I guessed wrong and I'm surprised they won't even be releasing a hotfix patch pre-holiday season, which would have been a good opportunity to drop another small DLC bundle. That'll make it the longest gap between patches since the game's release.

Look at that artifacting on the roadmap image though. Poor whatever intern has to keep editing that thing (that's the image from CDPR itself, not even a copy from a news site or something).

ccoates wrote:

New roadmap

Oh crap, it is Star Citizen.

garion333 wrote:

He's a genius. Straight up.

I am still picking my jaw up off the floor from his review — I had been looking at how to do a “choose your own adventure” style review of a game just with text and he worked out a way to do it with YouTube videos … I have followed his stuff since action button dot net and have nothing but kudos …

ccoates wrote:

New roadmap:

If I may borrow from 'Casablanca', "I am shocked! Shocked to find that poorly-managed development is going on in here."

What's particularly troubling is the fact that there are no hard dates for these releases. One week ago, they were on schedule to be released in the next 60 or so days. Now they are 2022-date-not-specified.

I wonder whether this is, in part, an exercise in expectations management. I would not be surprised if, in due course, DLC and further last generation patches are postponed indefinitely in order to complete work on the current generation versions of the game.

Further, I would not be surprised if those indefinite postponements turned into cancellations. The game will be 18 months old by next March.

garion333 wrote:

Tim Rogers can be a tough pill to swallow because of his idiosyncratic talking method (which is not how he normally speaks, btw), but this here is a god tier video analysis of Cyberpunk 2077.

In one of the vids he mentions that Cyberpunk is a game with an open world and not actually an open world game. I think that pretty much nails it in one.

Mostly cool video, would love to come back to watch the 7 reviews after I get to play CB one day, though the 7777 USD pc bragging felt out of line? maybe it was this guy commenting on the absurdity of needing that much money to enjoy the game as intended by the developers, but It felt more like bragging to me.

Feeank wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Tim Rogers can be a tough pill to swallow because of his idiosyncratic talking method (which is not how he normally speaks, btw), but this here is a god tier video analysis of Cyberpunk 2077.

In one of the vids he mentions that Cyberpunk is a game with an open world and not actually an open world game. I think that pretty much nails it in one.

Mostly cool video, would love to come back to watch the 7 reviews after I get to play CB one day, though the 7777 USD pc bragging felt out of line? maybe it was this guy commenting on the absurdity of needing that much money to enjoy the game as intended by the developers, but It felt more like bragging to me.

Oof, I'll credit myself for getting through about 30 minutes of that review but this Tim Rogers fella definitely isn't for me. Skill Up is quite possibly the only Youtuber I've given a pass for obscenely long game reviews, but only just - I can't recall the last review I've watched of his to completion.

Tim Rogers/Action Button is like Skill Up with a thesaurus and hipster sensibilities, plus a mandate to talk about himself as much, if not more, than the game he's covering. To each their own. I guess I'm still a fairly meat n' potatoes when it comes to reviews. ACG's content probably strikes the best balance for me these days.

Maclintok wrote:

Tim Rogers/Action Button is like Skill Up with a thesaurus and hipster sensibilities...

I knew there was something I liked about that guy.

Less glib: I've only watched a video and a half of Action Button, but I think if you're watching those videos for substantive review content, you're probably not down for that ride. I'm enjoying them because I find it a pretty hilarious thought exercise into just how many rabbit holes a human being can go down while somehow still ending up back on point in the end. It's genuinely remarkable, and I can't imagine how much effort/planning actually go into making that work. Some of the tangents early in the Doom vid are legit bonkers. (I also about spit-taked in the Cyberpunk video when he name-dropped the Top Golf and Portillos I frequent, about five miles from my house.)

Maclintok wrote:
Feeank wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Tim Rogers can be a tough pill to swallow because of his idiosyncratic talking method (which is not how he normally speaks, btw), but this here is a god tier video analysis of Cyberpunk 2077.

In one of the vids he mentions that Cyberpunk is a game with an open world and not actually an open world game. I think that pretty much nails it in one.

Mostly cool video, would love to come back to watch the 7 reviews after I get to play CB one day, though the 7777 USD pc bragging felt out of line? maybe it was this guy commenting on the absurdity of needing that much money to enjoy the game as intended by the developers, but It felt more like bragging to me.

Oof, I'll credit myself for getting through about 30 minutes of that review but this Tim Rogers fella definitely isn't for me. Skill Up is quite possibly the only Youtuber I've given a pass for obscenely long game reviews, but only just - I can't recall the last review I've watched of his to completion.

Tim Rogers/Action Button is like Skill Up with a thesaurus and hipster sensibilities, plus a mandate to talk about himself as much, if not more, than the game he's covering. To each their own. I guess I'm still a fairly meat n' potatoes when it comes to reviews. ACG's content probably strikes the best balance for me these days.

Feeank wrote:

Mostly cool video, would love to come back to watch the 7 reviews after I get to play CB one day, though the 7777 USD pc bragging felt out of line? maybe it was this guy commenting on the absurdity of needing that much money to enjoy the game as intended by the developers, but It felt more like bragging to me.

Oh, the layers that exist in his videos run deep (he delayed this video multiple times, for instance). Is it bragging? Somewhat. Is it giving his Patreon followers (currently $18k/month, yes, a month) what they want, which is him spending every last dime on devices, games, books and other media in order to come at a topic with a too wide breadth of knowledge? Absolutey. Is part of that going to be the overly expensive video card? Yeah. Is it gloating? Maybe. If anything Tim talks about impostor syndrome fairly frequently outside of his videos. Anyway, it's a lot of things, including commentary on having to put together a machine from the future to run the game, yes.

The thing with Tim is he has ALL the hallmarks of being a hipster, but outside of his Buzz Ricksons and his John Lennon glasses, he doesn't have the downside to being a hipster: he isn't a smarmy asshole. He loves video games and is happy to go against the grain but also happy to agree with consensus. He's an original thinker as far as I can tell. And that's rare.

ACG and Skill Up, my two go to reviewers also, are in the game to review games, talk about some news and make some insights from time to time. Tim, he's calling these "reviews", but they're not, they're semi-autobiographical dissection reviews. Are his reviews too long? Oh gawd yes, but they aren't meant to be binged. Or so he says.

If you want the quickest "full" experience of this review after the intro video choose to watch 5 then 6. If you're still interested then finish everything with 7.

Are his videos for everyone? Gawd no, but I didn't think I would ever finish his Tokimeki Memorial 6 hour video but I did. Took me 6 months. Was worth it, shockingly, but the Cyberpunk vids are even better.

garion333 wrote:

ACG and Skill Up, my two go to reviewers also, are in the game to review games, talk about some news and make some insights from time to time. Tim, he's calling these "reviews", but they're not, they're semi-autobiographical dissection reviews. Are his reviews too long? Oh gawd yes, but they aren't meant to be binged. Or so he says.

Great takes in there. I should also amend from my post when I said his stuff isn't "substantive review content" that I really meant concise/evaluative. They're not reviews, but there is plenty of seriously high-level analysis that is substantive as all get out. (See: the dissection of Doom level design, which is unreal [pun unintended].)

I agree with garion333's take -- Rogers' "reviews" are not intended to be something to watch to decide whether to buy a game. All the 'bragging' about his rig and furniture may be laid on thick, but it did serve a point as garion333 said, and it's all part of giving you a sense of where he is coming from.

I'm glad that someone is doing what he's doing, though it would probably grate if everyone was doing it that way.

With most reviews, you just want a 5-20 minute summary of what a game's like, but sometimes you may want a lengthy dissertation that feels like someone taking you through a Wikipedia rabbithole.

The video is really, really good, I loved the "preparing for this review I played all the games including cyber and or punk in the title or description ever published in all of them platforms" detour, It was just that aspect of the video that I found "braggy"? The guy has a clear intention in its script and delivery and I enjoyed it almost a 100%, that bit about the 7777USD pc just caught my eye in a sensitive way after spending 6 months last year planning for a pc upgrade and experiencing how difficult it is to get a nice new rig on a limited budget, I almost gave up at one time thinking I was going to opt for an overpriced laptop instead.

So yeah, whenever I get to play CP2k77 in the future I'll make sure to come back for the "reviews" and the final review.

I hear you on that -- as someone who is years behind in the PC hardware race, I often feel left out by reviewers saying how good a game's framerates are on their 4K ultrawides etc.

Yeah I'm getting what you guys are saying about these not being real reviews. They're more in the realm of in-depth retrospectives. The effort that's put into his CP2077 video is incredible. I'm not sure any video game deserves this much video effort lavished upon it. But for $18K/month in supporter money? Someone obviously found a way.

If we're posting long-ass reviews/analysis of CP2077, I thought Noah Caldwell-Gervais did a pretty fair and nuanced video of what the game was at release. I love his videos but I can't deal with the six hour long ones.

No idea what he'd make of it after all the patches.

Feeank wrote:

The video is really, really good, I loved the "preparing for this review I played all the games including cyber and or punk in the title or description ever published in all of them platforms" detour, It was just that aspect of the video that I found "braggy"? The guy has a clear intention in its script and delivery and I enjoyed it almost a 100%, that bit about the 7777USD pc just caught my eye in a sensitive way after spending 6 months last year planning for a pc upgrade and experiencing how difficult it is to get a nice new rig on a limited budget, I almost gave up at one time thinking I was going to opt for an overpriced laptop instead.

So yeah, whenever I get to play CP2k77 in the future I'll make sure to come back for the "reviews" and the final review.

Fwiw, I just came across a comment he made in one of the vids of why he got a 3090:

"Because that's all they had."

Too true. All the other cards except the stupid expensive overly insane ones are sold out everywhere, all the time. For instance, the only graphics card I can buy on Best Buy right now is an open box AMD card for $1000. If you walk into any store you're likely only going to find such high end cards because they're priced way above what a normal person will buy. Myswlf included (rip $200 video game card club, my RTX460 was still the best card of all time).

Anyway, I'll drop this entire line of thought and attempting to defend Tim's absurdity.