Diablo III Catch-All

LobsterMobster wrote:

I'm just happy the Vanishing Dye lets you wear invisible pants.

Why wear pants at all?

Stats, man! Stats!

[Edit]Which now got this stuck in my head. Stupid head.

ibdoomed wrote:

My original point is that with only 300k people online, the servers were unstable and even sometimes unplayable. I was expecting millions of sales and thus millions of people online so stability is going to be a big problem, even if you are playing alone.

Not everyone is going to be online at the same time. Server population will peak somewhere in the first weeks/month while everyone tries to rush in and check out the game, and things will stabilize after that point.

Someone else mentioned the 15k number being per shard. Is D3 really sharded since everyone can at anytime jump into someone elses game? Instanced, obviously, but sharded isn't the term I would use. I'm going more on the idea of this is one large server farm.

Don't forget that Blizzard breaks up the player base by region. So it's not going to be millions of people on one server farm.

As was stated earlier, this was a stress test so they were probably running with fewer servers than planned for release (with less than a month to go they're probably dealing with figuring out how much initial capacity they need). I doubt the server stability over last weekend is at all indicitive of how it's going to work at launch. A stress test is an invitation to effectively DDOS their servers and I'm pretty sure that goal was accomplished in under 24 hours.

Didn't SWTOR have similar issues? Long waits during the beta (especially during the open/stress test portion) and then a fairly smooth launch once they had an accurate idea of how many people would be playing?

LiquidMantis wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

My original point is that with only 300k people online, the servers were unstable and even sometimes unplayable.

Except that's the point of a stress test. I'm not saying there won't be issues but you can't base conclusions from when they're testing for issues.

Could be they don't have all their servers online either, and like Mantis said, they were stress testing what they do have online. I'm sure day 1 will cripple the servers just like any game, but I have a decent amount of faith in Blizzards infrastructure planning.

shoptroll wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

My original point is that with only 300k people online, the servers were unstable and even sometimes unplayable. I was expecting millions of sales and thus millions of people online so stability is going to be a big problem, even if you are playing alone.

Not everyone is going to be online at the same time. Server population will peak somewhere in the first weeks/month while everyone tries to rush in and check out the game, and things will stabilize after that point.

Another thing to keep in mind, Blizz wanted to stress test their servers to see how they would cope. The can't do that if they have all of their release servers online. My guess is that they had the majority of their servers just plain turned off, to see how the rest would handle the load. That's how they debug net code and was the primary goal of the open beta weekend.

Edit

shoptroll wrote:

As was stated earlier, this was a stress test so they were probably running with fewer servers than planned for release (with less than a month to go they're probably dealing with figuring out how much initial capacity they need). I doubt the server stability over last weekend is at all indicitive of how it's going to work at launch. A stress test is an invitation to effectively DDOS their servers and I'm pretty sure that goal was accomplished in under 24 hours.

Wow, Tannhausered by the very post I was quoting. That's gotta be a record or something.

Edit 2

Double Tannhausered by the very next post. Perhaps I should start reading more before I reply...

But you finished it.

You finished it, sir.

Grenn wrote:

Why is there math in the video game thread?

NSMike wrote:

Because math is what Keldar does?

Hey, I didn't even start it this time!

As an aside, I still have yet to try Elective Mode, but there are definitely some things I wanted to try out, because I kept getting saddened by not being able to use two different abilities at the same time since they were in different "trees".

As an aside, to anyone who's tried it, I'm guessing you can assign spells to keys that you normally wouldn't have access to? So at lower levels, when in "normal" mode you only have your two mouse buttons, you could still assign things to the number keys even though you wouldn't have any other active abilities there yet?

Wouldn't a build like that run into resource shortages? My impression was that the skills in the "primary" group are there since they use very little of (or actively generate) the character's resource(s).

Yes and no. There are equipment stats that give +hatred per second that would offset some of those issues.

Also, primary skills are IMO anything but of little use other than generating hatred. Entangling shot, especially with the rune that lets it hit 4 targets, is great against small groups and groups of runners, chargers or fast moving enemies.

I think there is also a passive skill that increases hatred regen if there are no enemies within 10 (a little more than melee) range.

I was wrong. There is the Vengeance passive that grants you 25 hatred when healed by a health globe. There are also a few other passives that will make your normal attacks that happend when you run out of hatred much more powerful.

Hmm, it seems Blizzard has changed the passives quite a bit. In addition to the hatred regen one, I seem to recall there used to be a passive that doubled your normal attack damage.

You guys are making me curious. I am going to have to try when I get home tonight. Unless the weapon types are locked out from use, I can't believe you can't equip swords, clubs and axes as a demon hunter. You can as a wizard and witch doctor and still are able to cast skills and spells.

Keldar wrote:

As an aside, to anyone who's tried it, I'm guessing you can assign spells to keys that you normally wouldn't have access to? So at lower levels, when in "normal" mode you only have your two mouse buttons, you could still assign things to the number keys even though you wouldn't have any other active abilities there yet?

No. Those extra slots don't unlock until the same level you would unlock a slot that is "set" for those keys. Basically, you can't use more skills in the early levels by using elective mode, but you get more control of which skills to use once you do unlock the slots.

Global Gold drops

Hey guys,

Thanks for your continued reports. QA was able to reproduce this internally and brought it up to the Diablo III developers.

Here's where it gets interesting: The Treasure Goblin is apparently intended to drop global gold to kind of encourage the party to chase him. However, this is not accurately explained in-game, which is causing this player confusion. We also confirmed that the Treasure Goblin does not drop global items, only global gold.

The developers have decided to change this and make the Treasure Goblin drop individual gold, but the fix will not make it for release. It should come in a future patch after release. I will add this bug to the Known Issues list for when the game comes out on May 15.

Thanks again for your reports, and know that this Beta feedback has helped change the game :)

**boggle**
I've been following the game pretty closely and here's super new info that I never knew about. Moral of the story, if you're in a multiplayer game and you see the treasure golbin, forget about killing stuff, chase him before others steal your gold

Also, the concept of global gold vs individual gold/item drops could potentially open up new game modes or game play in the future.

Vargen wrote:

the rune system looks like a solid starting point, and we know for a fact that Blizzard patches the hell out of their games.

The nature of Blizzard patches is actually what has me most excited by the rune system. As a born min-max type of guy, in Diablo 2 I was a little ahead of the curve in figuring out "broken" builds. So I'd level up this kickass guy, then within a couple months it would catch on as the flavor of the month on the internet, and Blizzard would knee-jerk nerf it into mediocrity. On to experimentation, find the next build, have fun for a bit, build catches on, Blizzard nerfs it, roll up a new guy, etc. Gets old. I hear synergies "fixed" this by drastically narrowing the viable options, but I was gone by then.

I like the idea that I won't have to throw out my character every time they decide that a particular build is too powerful. Nerfing Whirlwind? No problem, I'll flip to a different skill/rune combo.

Of course, this being the internet, the rage will just shift somewhere else. I await the deluge of angry posts from people who spend cash on top tier items that synergize perfectly with a certain build, only to have the build nerfed the following week.

emyln wrote:

Moral of the story, if you're in a multiplayer game and you see the treasure golbin, forget about killing stuff, chase him before others steal your gold

IMAGE(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19391842.jpg)

fangblackbone wrote:
Wouldn't a build like that run into resource shortages? My impression was that the skills in the "primary" group are there since they use very little of (or actively generate) the character's resource(s).

Yes and no. There are equipment stats that give +hatred per second that would offset some of those issues.

Also, primary skills are IMO anything but of little use other than generating hatred. Entangling shot, especially with the rune that lets it hit 4 targets, is great against small groups and groups of runners, chargers or fast moving enemies.

I think this kind of thing is something that could easily vary from class to class, too.

For example, Monks' spirit resource doesn't regen at all—you only gain it from using spirit builders. However, the spirit builders can be reasonably powerful, and before they put in the "elective" switch, I found that using a pair of different spirit builders on M1/M2 was interesting at around level 13. It let me have one "single target, longer range" builder and one "multi-target, point blank" builder.

On the far opposite side of things, Wizards' mana regens very very quickly, and instead of having builder skills that give resources you have signature spells which are free. So I could certainly imagine a wizard going no-signature (although having free stuff to zot smaller enemies while kiting to regain mana to hit the big guy isn't a bad thing.)

So there's definitely room for variety.

--

In my mind the key thing about balance is ensuring that there's a wide range of viable options. Anecdote time! I've been playing some Path of Exile lately. A lot, actually. In that game right now there's one really dominant build using a passive capstone called "Avatar of Fire". AoF turns all of your physical damage into fire damage. You can combine that with passives that multiply your physical damage and passives that multiply your fire damage to pump damage output way high. You then use flasks to force critical hits, which light enemies on fire when you're doing fire damage, and use some stuff that makes the fire spread from one enemy to another. So you can get a bunch of enemies clumped by kiting around them, hit your crit flask, kill them all almost instantly, which refills your crit flask. Repeat.

This is so much more powerful than anything else that it's not even funny.

So now the designers have to fix that somehow. If they don't fix it, then either they have to tune the content so that it's challenging for AoF users and impossible for everyone else, or they have to tune the content so that it's challenging for everyone else and a walkover for AoF users.

That's broken balance right there.

(The worrisome thing is that sub-parts of that strategy work without AoF. They're going to have to tweak a lot of passives to fix things—and passives are arranged in a giant web. So if this sort of thing happens again, it sets up a situation of "in order to tune this we have to break the world and make you re-do your characters." That's bad.)

In contrast, I think D3 will have a much easier time. There will be synergies between abilities, I'm sure—but each ability also ought to be able to stand on its own pretty well. Each choice is therefore fairly independent. And that independence means that when Blizzard notices a certain skill is over- or under-powered, they can tweak just that skill (or just that synergy if it's a synergy problem) without changing the rest of the game.

And that's what should keep a large proportion of the possible builds competitive. Sure, some will be better or worse than others. And some will be better when used by some people than when used by others. But you'll never have a situation like the Path of Exile AoF, because something that out of whack is really easy to fix.

And that makes for real variety.

--

(By the way: OMG, the PoE community is wretched. You know how MOBAs have a bad name? Well, PoE is about that bad. And of course, trolling about D3 is a common occurrence, both on the forums and in global chat in the game.)

Hypatian wrote:

For example, Monks' spirit resource doesn't regen at all

This is probably a stupid thing that doesn't need mentioning, but right at the end of the beta I got a pretty spiffy monk-specific head piece that regenerated spirit.

So it appears that the demon hunter is unlike all the other d3 classes in regards to skills requiring certain weapons to use. Wizard and witch doctor can use there skills with any weapon available to them. The demon hunter requires a bow or crossbow in order to fire their arrow flavored skills such as entangling shot, rapid fire and hungering shot. The are some skills that are weapon independent such as impale and the utility skills. I am unsure whether bolo shot or elemental arrow will work with any weapon. I'd put money on skills like chakram, spike trap and grenades working with any weapon.

I understand it from a lore stand point that arrows should not be fired from maces and swords. But it seems inconsistent and the lore is easy to change. Call the skills "shots" like a few of them are so that they can be arrows, darts or daggers. This should be easier to program since to me, the restriction is something extra to program that is unnecessary. And even if it is just setting up a flag, you still have to put testing cycles to it to make sure its working properly and doesn't introduce other bugs.

Also of note is that running around without a hatred builder, at least up to level 13, is difficult. Adding grenades to that build may be a simple fix though.

emyln wrote:

I've been following the game pretty closely and here's super new info that I never knew about. Moral of the story, if you're in a multiplayer game and you see the treasure golbin, forget about killing stuff, chase him before others steal your gold

Also, the concept of global gold vs individual gold/item drops could potentially open up new game modes or game play in the future.

We ran into him twice during the stress test. Fun times. For some reason I thought all gold drops were global and items were individual, didn't realize everything was individual. I thought gold was like D2 with gold sharing among people in your party.

I must say though, it's really weird to watch your co-op buddies wandering around grabbing loot that you can't see.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

For example, Monks' spirit resource doesn't regen at all

This is probably a stupid thing that doesn't need mentioning, but right at the end of the beta I got a pretty spiffy monk-specific head piece that regenerated spirit.

True. Also, a number of abilities grant regeneration of one sort or another.

Was just looking through the monk skills, though, and noted that one of the passives actually grants benefits for being in elective mode and using multiple spirit builders:

Combination Strike

Each different Spirit Generator ability you use increases your damage by 8% for 3 seconds.

I continue to be impressed by how much variety the different runes give each skill. Sure, some are really simple and obvious (like the different kinds of mystic allies that are available to the monk). Others, though, really change things up. (The different runes for Dashing Strike are a good example: 1) +25% movement / 3s, 2) 60% chance of 3s stun, 3) cost reduced from 25 to 10, 4) slow enemies you pass by 60% / 2s, 5) 20% dodge chance / 3s.) Since that ability has no cooldown, those aren't super minor. And since you can only have one of those benefits, you really have to think about which one you want. (And if you want to use it a lot for an effect, you can't use the cost reducing rune, so you'll need some other ability to give you more spirit regen. etc.)

I think there's going to be a *lot* of depth with these abilities.

fangblackbone wrote:

So it appears that the demon hunter is unlike all the other d3 classes in regards to skills requiring certain weapons to use. Wizard and witch doctor can use there skills with any weapon available to them. The demon hunter requires a bow or crossbow in order to fire their arrow flavored skills such as entangling shot, rapid fire and hungering shot. The are some skills that are weapon independent such as impale and the utility skills. I am unsure whether bolo shot or elemental arrow will work with any weapon. I'd put money on skills like chakram, spike trap and grenades working with any weapon.

I understand it from a lore stand point that arrows should not be fired from maces and swords. But it seems inconsistent and the lore is easy to change. Call the skills "shots" like a few of them are so that they can be arrows, darts or daggers. This should be easier to program since to me, the restriction is something extra to program that is unnecessary. And even if it is just setting up a flag, you still have to put testing cycles to it to make sure its working properly and doesn't introduce other bugs.

Also of note is that running around without a hatred builder, at least up to level 13, is difficult. Adding grenades to that build may be a simple fix though.

I think Fan of Knives can be used with any weapon. Its also melee range ability but I'm not sure if the demon hunter gets any other skills like that (other than chakram which you mentioned).

Hypatian wrote:

(By the way: OMG, the PoE community is wretched. You know how MOBAs have a bad name? Well, PoE is about that bad. And of course, trolling about D3 is a common occurrence, both on the forums and in global chat in the game.)

Yeah, I'm loving what I've played of PoE, but the player community is pretty horrid. Though really, to me it's no more worse than any other congregation of public mouth-breathers out there (LoL, DOTA, SC2, Diablo 2 and inevitably Diablo 3, etc).

mindset.threat wrote:

I think Fan of Knives can be used with any weapon. Its also melee range ability but I'm not sure if the demon hunter gets any other skills like that (other than chakram which you mentioned).

I think there are quite a few. (regular) Knife is one, and I think none of the traps need a missile weapon.

Farscry wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

(By the way: OMG, the PoE community is wretched. You know how MOBAs have a bad name? Well, PoE is about that bad. And of course, trolling about D3 is a common occurrence, both on the forums and in global chat in the game.)

Yeah, I'm loving what I've played of PoE, but the player community is pretty horrid. Though really, to me it's no more worse than any other congregation of public mouth-breathers out there (LoL, DOTA, SC2, Diablo 2 and inevitably Diablo 3, etc).

Well aren't many of us on GWJ to bypass the 'player community' problem in certain games? ;p

Hypatian wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

For example, Monks' spirit resource doesn't regen at all

This is probably a stupid thing that doesn't need mentioning, but right at the end of the beta I got a pretty spiffy monk-specific head piece that regenerated spirit.

True. Also, a number of abilities grant regeneration of one sort or another.

Seems to be a bonus that's only available on rare (and I assume higher quality) items. I have yet to come across that on a normal magic item, but playing last night I had 3 +spirit regen items drop for me. I was either very lucky, or they've tweaked drop rates a bit. I got a couple rares prior to the boss, he dropped 2 rares himself, and I had magical drops from chests and stuff that normally would only drop grey/white items.

Farscry wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

(By the way: OMG, the PoE community is wretched. You know how MOBAs have a bad name? Well, PoE is about that bad. And of course, trolling about D3 is a common occurrence, both on the forums and in global chat in the game.)

Yeah, I'm loving what I've played of PoE, but the player community is pretty horrid. Though really, to me it's no more worse than any other congregation of public mouth-breathers out there (LoL, DOTA, SC2, Diablo 2 and inevitably Diablo 3, etc).

Part of the reason why we're lucky we landed in such a great community.

Xeknos wrote:
Farscry wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

(By the way: OMG, the PoE community is wretched. You know how MOBAs have a bad name? Well, PoE is about that bad. And of course, trolling about D3 is a common occurrence, both on the forums and in global chat in the game.)

Yeah, I'm loving what I've played of PoE, but the player community is pretty horrid. Though really, to me it's no more worse than any other congregation of public mouth-breathers out there (LoL, DOTA, SC2, Diablo 2 and inevitably Diablo 3, etc).

Part of the reason why we're lucky we landed in such a great community.

Something I think it's worth pointing out on complacency: A community is only as good as you make it, if you call yourself part of it. GWJ doesn't have some magic that makes it good and other 'lesser' communities lack that magic, it's only by it's members being good that happens.

Scratched wrote:

Something I think it's worth pointing out on complacency: A community is only as good as you make it, if you call yourself part of it. GWJ doesn't have some magic that makes it good and other 'lesser' communities lack that magic, it's only by it's members being good that happens.

That and some serious pruning of the membership by our benevolent overlords.

I know it's harder to do in F2P game, but has there ever been an online game that's kicked people just because they weren't nice, rather than the severe harassment that seems to be needed for most GMs to take notice.

mindset.threat wrote:

I think Fan of Knives can be used with any weapon. Its also melee range ability but I'm not sure if the demon hunter gets any other skills like that (other than chakram which you mentioned).

Fan of Knives is a melee ranged ability that causes your character to pause and appreciate the craftsmanship and design of their weapon.

God the wait is bad.

I just started installing Hellgate F2P version, because for some reason I couldn't click with Torchlight.

Saying you can't click with Torchlight but you can with Hellgate is like saying, "why have hamburger when you can have liver?"

LobsterMobster wrote:

Saying you can't click with Torchlight but you can with Hellgate is like saying, "why have hamburger when you can have liver?"

I dont know. Torchlight is obbbviously a superior game. But when I booted it up, Torchlight just felt like, Diablo Lite. The playful aesthetic didn't jibe with me, the class skills were boring, and when I hopped back onto my Level 15, I was immediately bored.

And right now I just need a fix of a good loot grinder. That was one thing Hellgate did decently at.