Diablo III Catch-All

The problem with saying something along the lines of "remember it's a beta and doesn't represent the final version" is that you/Blizzard can't control what people think, only influence it. When you put something in front of people that presents a game a certain way, then they're going to absorb that evidence and draw conclusions, it's the way our minds work and there's not too much you can do about it.

I think you may have just done the best job I've seen of succinctly identifying why most companies don't do demos anymore.

Elysium wrote:
The problem with saying something along the lines of "remember it's a beta and doesn't represent the final version" is that you/Blizzard can't control what people think, only influence it. When you put something in front of people that presents a game a certain way, then they're going to absorb that evidence and draw conclusions, it's the way our minds work and there's not too much you can do about it.

I think you may have just done the best job I've seen of succinctly identifying why most companies don't do demos anymore.

But there's a difference between a demo and a beta. A demo should represent the final version. You're supposed to be able to draw conclusions about the game from it or else it's just being dishonest. A beta is, by definition, a work in progress.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

But there's a difference between a demo and a beta. A demo should represent the final version. You're supposed to be able to draw conclusions about the game from it or else it's just being dishonest. A beta is, by definition, a work in progress.

By labeling it as a beta, it lets them put a nice disclaimer at the loading screen which is a nice get-out clause. That said, the labels applied to publicly available test versions in most software tend to be lacking any standard about them, from "it compiled, and stuff moved on screen" to "release candidate we're making sure nothing falls off when a few million people poke at it". The other thing is that most release versions that you pay for could be called work-in-progress now, including some with major bugs.

Caddrel wrote:

(a spell that sucks enemies into a small area + another spell that does AoE damage).

FYI there are at least 3 of these combinations in d3. (I know the monk and barbarian get them if not in more than one varieties) In addition to these support skills, the wizard gets a time slow bubble and a projectile reflect. The wizard also gets a passive that debuffs damage resistance to any enemies hit by her fire damage. The witch doctor gets an aoe fear that can be runed to do a variety of group buffs including group healing. The demon hunter gets a passive that does more damage to snared enemies. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

And snares, especially aoe ones, are the primary source of crowd control in the diablo series. There are passives, runes and active skills for every class that are aoe snares.

Anyone disappointed by the lack of coop skills in the beta, now that you have some experience with how the beta plays, I would suggest looking through the skill calculator again. I think your eyes will be opened up quite a bit.

Elysium wrote:

I think you may have just done the best job I've seen of succinctly identifying why most companies don't do demos anymore.

Because they think that if people have a demo to try first it might result in them not buying the game?

I play support classes exclusively in multiplayer games, and it looks like I'm going to have a lot of fun with the monk based on the open beta and the existing skill list. Demphasizing potions makes healing a somewhat viable role, in contrast to Diablo 2 where it was mostly useless. The user interface is also way better for tracking party health, since there are now health indicators on the side of your screen and by the player. The spin-kick is great for pushing enemies away from damaged players, and I had limited success with using it to move monsters into another player's area-of-effect spell. The direct heal opens at level eight and is far superior to Diablo 2's prayer synergy or holy bolt skill.

My only irritation is the party cap. My plan is to mostly play with friends, and the the four-person limit is going to generate drama just like it currently does in Payday and Left4Dead.

That said I doubt I'll be playing it for more than a month. Like all of Blizzard's recent releases, there's absolutely no innovation on any level. But it will keep me entertained for a bit while I'm waiting for Guild Wars 2 to be released.

I actually have a negative reaction to the Diablo 3 Beta.

I've been playing Diablo 2 again gearing up towards the release of 3, and pretty much everything I like about the title has changed.

The Beta is very linear. It's "go here", "do that". I'd be okay with that if they let me customize the character however I wanted, but I get one skill per level, and it's preassigned.

So linear, little customization.

The interface is very WoW like, and I wonder what the purpose of that is. Achievements? Doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, since the achievements don't affect your character in any way, and the Beta is linear as can be. EVERYONE will have the same achievements.

Overall, they got WoW in my Diablo, and I'd rather play WoW. Time to fire up the subscription again!

mateo wrote:

The Beta is very linear. It's "go here", "do that".

And... D2 Act 1 wasn't?

little customization.

I've got plenty of configuration options in the skill department by level 9. Plenty. How much difference did stats make in Diablo II? Most of the time you were dumping the extra points (since it automatically allocated some to your character on level up anyways) into 2 maybe 3 stats anyways.

It seems to me the design goal was less fiddling more killing and looting for this iteration.

The interface is very WoW like, and I wonder what the purpose of that is.

Ironically, I thought the WoW interface very Diablo II like when they first showed WoW. They even stole the color coded item names!

Achievements?

Are not going away any time soon. The market has spoken and people like their cheevos. You can easily ignore them.

Doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, since the achievements don't affect your character in any way

Achievements don't make a huge difference in any game. At the very least they allow you to customize your account a little and strut your e-peen, much like they did in SC2.

Tamren wrote:
Elysium wrote:

I think you may have just done the best job I've seen of succinctly identifying why most companies don't do demos anymore.

Because they think that if people have a demo to try first it might result in them not buying the game?

Yes. There have been studies ( I don't have the links. ) that show putting out a demo generally only hurts your sales. It is an incredibly rare demo that actually helps sell your game.

mateo wrote:

I actually have a negative reaction to the Diablo 3 Beta.

I've been playing Diablo 2 again gearing up towards the release of 3, and pretty much everything I like about the title has changed.

The Beta is very linear. It's "go here", "do that". I'd be okay with that if they let me customize the character however I wanted, but I get one skill per level, and it's preassigned.

So linear, little customization.

The interface is very WoW like, and I wonder what the purpose of that is. Achievements? Doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, since the achievements don't affect your character in any way, and the Beta is linear as can be. EVERYONE will have the same achievements.

Overall, they got WoW in my Diablo, and I'd rather play WoW. Time to fire up the subscription again!

I've always considered WoW's interface to be Diablo like. D3 is just an updated version. Plus of course the beta is linear. You just played D2. D2 is also linear for the first 13 levels. Like you mentioned we dont have the option to assign our stats, but more often than not you save up those points anyway and save them for later at that point. In fact i'd argue that the entire Diablo series is linear. The only difference between a run with a character is the gear you have, but the story and path is static.

This small changebeen discussed heavily here already. Instead of having to having to worry about holding on and placing stats to be able to make the most out of the gear you have you just have to worry about gathering gear and leveling. In D1 and D2 levels after certain point just didnt matter anymore.

As long as we're talking about stuff we miss from D2, I find it really weird that they are using a different font for item drops. I know this is a minor nitpick, but the old Diablo font was really iconic and for some reason the new one just feels wrong.

For some reason I was timing out trying to resume my game so I just did a public drop. It definitely upped the intensity playing in a four player game but only having one person with me in the crypts. It certainly helped that I had a really polite group but I'm more excited for the game now.

Thin_J wrote:
drdoak wrote:

I am so pleased by the male witch doctor cast animation for the firebat spell. It's like a crazy person jig.

I thought it looked like Day9's fusion core dance. But with fire and bats. Makes me laugh every time I use it.

Damn, I know what I'm trying next!
* Yep, that's the fusion core dance Too good.

They did axe a lot of upfront complexity, but I'm fairly certain all that customization we all know and love is still there, just at few hours later in-- I'm thinking about Act 2.

Tkyl wrote:
Tamren wrote:
Elysium wrote:

I think you may have just done the best job I've seen of succinctly identifying why most companies don't do demos anymore.

Because they think that if people have a demo to try first it might result in them not buying the game?

Yes. There have been studies ( I don't have the links. ) that show putting out a demo generally only hurts your sales. It is an incredibly rare demo that actually helps sell your game.

Well, that's depressing.

Slacker1913 wrote:

As long as we're talking about stuff we miss from D2, I find it really weird that they are using a different font for item drops. I know this is a minor nitpick, but the old Diablo font was really iconic and for some reason the new one just feels wrong.

I agree with that. It amazing how much difference a font can make. I remember one of the mods I used for torchlight was a new font, and it felt like a new game.

Played the beta, had some fun, probably hold off until sale. That is all.

BlackSabre wrote:

Played the beta, had some fun, probably hold off until sale. That is all. :)

Unfortunately, it's a Blizzard game, and will be $60 for at least the first five years post-release.

NSMike wrote:
BlackSabre wrote:

Played the beta, had some fun, probably hold off until sale. That is all. :)

Unfortunately, it's a Blizzard game, and will be $90 for at least the first five years post-release.

BlackSabre is Australian, so I fixed that for you. No kidding, Diablo 2 will still set you back $30 at retail here.

It's going to hurt my wallet, but I'll be picking up two copies of this at launch. One for me and my girlfriend. It's a Blizzard game, the two player co-op is going to be glorious, and well worth the $180.

Although, having just typed it, that is a painfully large figure.

Is this one of those things we can goodjer-jack the regional pricing on? If so I'd be glad to help out.

*Scratching head* I just found the option to enable advanced tooltips, which is nice, because it gives you more information about skills.
I've not followed development of the game, but it appears that even as a wizard, your spell damage is affected by the weapon you have equipped? So holding a wand is going to cause me to deal less damage with my magic missile spell than if I'm holding an axe? In a few minutes of testing it seems that this is the case.

I'm going to have to buy this one day one and spend all of my waking hours outside of work playing from start to finish. It's a very simple game, but the presentation (and destruction) is exactly what I expect of Diablo. I suppose if anyone else did a polished game as well as Blizzard I'd be hard pressed to justify it, but IMO no one does.

Edit: I should mention that this is what I think at the moment having played the open beta through as a barbarian. I'd shut myself off from news of the game and possible release dates until someone told me about the open beta.

Yes and no Puce. If you carry a wand will net you more wizard specific properties that will eventually outstrip the extra damage of say a lumber axe. As a matter of fact, it only took me until level 4 to find a 17 damage one handed crossbow or a 15.6 damage wand for my wizard. (lumber axes are typically around 10-13 damage when first found)

Plus there are also class specific offhand items (orbs, tomes, wanga dolls) with other class specific properties as well.

The class I had the hardest time with getting class specific gear that had decent stats was the witch doctor. It was so much easier to find a big damage two handed weapon that boosted the damage of my mongrels and corpse spiders.

Puce Moose wrote:

I've not followed development of the game, but it appears that even as a wizard, your spell damage is affected by the weapon you have equipped? So holding a wand is going to cause me to deal less damage with my magic missile spell than if I'm holding an axe? In a few minutes of testing it seems that this is the case.

Yes, primary damage is affected by weapon, so (in your case) if your axe has better damage than your wand, yes it would provide better DPS.

krev82 wrote:

Is this one of those things we can goodjer-jack the regional pricing on? If so I'd be glad to help out.

I think Blizzard games are tricky for that sort of thing. I'll have a look when I get home, but part of the problem is I kind of want the boxed version for this game. I'm such a sucker for physical crap.

I had a blast playing this over the weekend. Wizard is a ton of fun, and I can't wait to see what comes with the full release. I'm sold, can't wait for my CE to arrive on the 15th.

fangblackbone wrote:

Yes and no Puce. If you carry a wand will net you more wizard specific properties that will eventually outstrip the extra damage of say a lumber axe. As a matter of fact, it only took me until level 4 to find a 17 damage one handed crossbow or a 15.6 damage wand for my wizard. (lumber axes are typically around 10-13 damage when first found)
Plus there are also class specific offhand items (orbs, tomes, wanga dolls) with other class specific properties as well.
The class I had the hardest time with getting class specific gear that had decent stats was the witch doctor. It was so much easier to find a big damage two handed weapon that boosted the damage of my mongrels and corpse spiders.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Puce Moose wrote:

I've not followed development of the game, but it appears that even as a wizard, your spell damage is affected by the weapon you have equipped? So holding a wand is going to cause me to deal less damage with my magic missile spell than if I'm holding an axe? In a few minutes of testing it seems that this is the case.

Yes, primary damage is affected by weapon, so (in your case) if your axe has better damage than your wand, yes it would provide better DPS.

Thanks for the information. That seems a little bizarre, but I suppose it's to help keep wizards and other spell users potentially excited about drops other than rings/wands/etc.
Does durability on weapons/armor ever go down? It seems that most equipment has a durability rating, but I've yet to see it drop by even one point on any of my equipped items. Does anyone know if this is a feature not implemented in the beta, or do other things happen to your equipment to alter their durability (acid, enchanting, etc.)

Redwing wrote:
NSMike wrote:
BlackSabre wrote:

Played the beta, had some fun, probably hold off until sale. That is all. :)

Unfortunately, it's a Blizzard game, and will be $90 for at least the first five years post-release.

BlackSabre is Australian, so I fixed that for you. No kidding, Diablo 2 will still set you back $30 at retail here.

It's going to hurt my wallet, but I'll be picking up two copies of this at launch. One for me and my girlfriend. It's a Blizzard game, the two player co-op is going to be glorious, and well worth the $180.

Although, having just typed it, that is a painfully large figure.

Grab it from ozgameshop.com for $54.99. They're in the uk, but they post aussie games. I've got several games from them and delivery is free. Beats going to EB games which charge exorbitant prices.

But if it doesn't come down on sale.... well who knows. Didn't really see anything groundbreaking that made me want to add it to my pile right now. I'm happy with the games I have for the moment.

Afaik, durability only starts to go down after a certain character level (I dont know which) from being hit or dying. Part of the hand-holding package in early levels.
Blizzard has said that durability is meant to be one of the biggest gold sinks at higher levels, so it is surely in the game at some point.

A few other games have used the %weapon damage as basis for spelldamage as well, and imo its the only system which has the chance to work well. The difference between weapon skills and magic skills in Diablo 2 was rather large, to the point where some classes/builds could be played naked pretty much (or more realistically as Magic Find characters) while others were very dependent on gear.
I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't show the actual damage in the tooltips of the spells beside the % dmg though.

I also logged into the D3 open beta with my wife for the first time we've played a Diablo game for about 10 years.

Overall, agree the experience is polished and we really like how you can join your friends' games so easily (and teleport directly from town back to where they are). That is definitely made of win. Our only major concern was when one person timed out at a point in the King Leoric instance, they couldn't re-enter. Then when the other person timed out, it was as if the whole 'game' terminated completely and could not be restored (restoring game merely put you right back at the start of a completely new game).

Other two points:

a) Still quite bazaare seeing characters use non-class weapons but attack animations reverting to class-based animations, maybe that oddness will disappear with time.

b) Wizard seems to be far more enjoyable than Monk (not sure if our limited playtime might weigh into this).