Diablo III Catch-All 2.0

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

I have to imagine fighting Hell-difficulty Diablo with a hardcore character is completely nerve-wracking!

PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

Could you stream? I want to watch and chew my fingernails off.

Farscry wrote:
PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

I have to imagine fighting Hell-difficulty Diablo with a hardcore character is completely nerve-wracking!

I haven't done it yet, I've taken my time and am only now getting ready to fight Belial and finish act 2. I think that I am OP enough at this point to finish Hard though. (I hope). The nice thing about getting to 60 with a wizard is that you get the Unstable Anomaly passive that gives you back 45% of your life if you take life ending damage. I call it the "Get out of death free card"

Keithustus wrote:
PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

Could you stream? I want to watch and chew my fingernails off.

I've never streamed before, but I can look into it.

PWAlessi wrote:
Keithustus wrote:
PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

Could you stream? I want to watch and chew my fingernails off.

I've never streamed before, but I can look into it.

Twitch.TV and Open Broadcaster Software (OBS) are an easy to set up and great solution.

ahrezmendi wrote:
PWAlessi wrote:
Keithustus wrote:
PWAlessi wrote:

I made it to level 60 tonight with my wizard in Hardcore mode. Next up, I need to do Inferno. I still have to finish Hell first though.

Could you stream? I want to watch and chew my fingernails off.

I've never streamed before, but I can look into it.

Twitch.TV and Open Broadcaster Software (OBS) are an easy to set up and great solution.

I'm on a Mac. I think I have a setup, but I haven't tried it yet.

Just make sure to try it first on a normal character. You'd hate to lose a hardcore because the streaming CPU cycles have degraded your D3 performance.

Keithustus wrote:

Just make sure to try it first on a normal character. You'd hate to lose a hardcore because the streaming CPU cycles have degraded your D3 performance.

Yeah, good thinking!

Well, been back in D3 for about a week. I quit when I was getting roflstomped in Act 2 Hell difficulty, not Inferno... Hell. I heard they made it easier with a "recent" patch, so I tried it out. Got my monk to 60, beat Diablo (it felt pretty easy actually), and now get demolished in Act 2 Inferno... yay. At least he's now level 5 paragon, and able to run the entire Act 1 with only some difficulty. I've tried MP1, and I get killed all over again, so I tend to start Act 1 @ the 3 tombs looking for the Skeleton King's crown, with as much MF as I can get away with (~157% mf). I'm thinking of ditching his MF helm for a +23% XP one.

All 4 other classes are just short of L60 (56-58ish), and I have yet to go back to any of them yet (it's been months...).

I'm leery of trying HC, I get fairly frequent PC-hiccups that have killed (or nearly killed) me on several occasions.

complexmath wrote:

I think the actual root problem in Diablo 3 is itemization. People just turn to the Auction House as a way to remedy that. Blizzard can't possibly think that the Auction House is the actual source of D3's problems.

Agreed. There's nothing inherently wrong with the AH as a concept, but the fact that they subsequently tuned the game so that really good items were so rare made it the only real way to play the game.

Orphu wrote:

I think the AH limits what you can do with itemization. Basically the AH causes a crowd source effect on item drops. You have to make things incredibly rare for a single player to find to keep the supply down on the AH where hundreds of thousands of players are pooling that drop chance. As a result, it forces players to the auction house instead of finding items by playing the game, turning Diablo 3 into an Ebay simulator instead of a dungeon crawl.

The AH was a huge mistake.

See, I think there's a way it would have been fine: they should have simply embraced the overpoweredness that an AH would enable rather than trying to reign it in to a point that the game sucked without the AH.

What would've worked better for me is if I could have become truly awesome through normal playing and farming; but above and beyond that, people could use the AH to become even more obscenely overpowered. They'd basically be playing an entirely different kind of game that I could completely ignore.

See, I think there's a way it would have been fine: they should have simply embraced the overpoweredness that an AH would enable rather than trying to reign it in to a point that the game sucked without the AH.

What would've worked better for me is if I could have become truly awesome through normal playing and farming; but above and beyond that, people could use the AH to become even more obscenely overpowered. They'd basically be playing an entirely different kind of game that I could completely ignore.

I think this is what they tried to do with Inferno levels. It was supposed to be so insanely hard that it would never be completed. I seem to remember someone beating it within a few days of activation. Now they added the Keywardens and the levels that go with the Infernal Machine. Same thing again.

gore wrote:

See, I think there's a way it would have been fine: they should have simply embraced the overpoweredness that an AH would enable rather than trying to reign it in to a point that the game sucked without the AH.

What would've worked better for me is if I could have become truly awesome through normal playing and farming; but above and beyond that, people could use the AH to become even more obscenely overpowered. They'd basically be playing an entirely different kind of game that I could completely ignore.

Which is precisely what they did with subsequent patches. You only need the highest-end most expensive gear if you're trying to get the Hellfire Ring, to just beat the game doesn't take much at all anymore.

So far I've cred about this game exactly not at all, but there's a post on the Penny Arcade Report about the console port that piques my interest. I'd be interested to see what the vets have to say about the changes.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/diablo-3-on-the-playstation-3-isnt-just-functional-its-far-better-than-its-

I like the concept of the AH as a way to prevent RNG-screw. It's always frustrating in games when you build a claw-only character, and then don't see any decent claws for several levels. Their mistake was in letting you auction high end gear on there. I should be able to buy/sell things which let me progress through the game, but the marquee gear should have to be traded for or perhaps bind to your account on pickup. Having a secondary trade market prevents the casual player from having their gear shortcomings thrust right in their face every time they open the AH.

Zudz wrote:

So far I've cred about this game exactly not at all, but there's a post on the Penny Arcade Report about the console port that piques my interest. I'd be interested to see what the vets have to say about the changes.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/diablo-3-on-the-playstation-3-isnt-just-functional-its-far-better-than-its-

It's like a slap in the face, since all those changes were suggested by gamers even before release of the game, and constantly after, except Blizzard moved at a glacial pace to patch the PC version (obviously they were working on the console version).

Clearly they fired and forgot the PC version, which would be fine if it had been good at release.

Left me with a bad taste from Blizzard.

You really think they "fired and forgot the PC version" when faced with improvements like we got from the 1.05, 1.07, and 1.08 patches?

Well, we'll see whether they add the PS3 goodies back in eventually. I'd actually really like to try out D3 offline and with a gamepad, but I'm not gonna buy the thing again on a console just for that option

ahrezmendi wrote:

You really think they "fired and forgot the PC version" when faced with improvements like we got from the 1.05, 1.07, and 1.08 patches?

Yep, sorry if you disagree. Those patches were ok, but they addressed way too few problems in a very slow way.

Is 1.08 out already? The monster density patch? I uninstalled it some time ago.

Took them a year to bring the game close to what it should've been on launch, yet console got the benefits from that and more.

As it stands, a year into D3's release, there is still no good incentive to play co-op over single-player, other than your friends really like the game.

So yeah, still a bad taste and personally I'll remember D3 as a terrible game that I spent too long playing. Regret it a bit because it took me a long time to figure out how the itemization was broken, and kept playing and hoping for Blizzard to patch it soon. I dunno if that makes sense, but mostly it was the excellent "feel" of the combat that I kept playing it for, hoping for Blizzard to fix the other issues like itemization and monster density.

Took them a year to bring the game close to what it should've been on launch

How quickly we forget that the same could have been said for Diablo 2. The game was refined dramatically by the expansion that came out a year later. (sorry for the dead horse beating)

My mistake, 1.08 is not out yet.

The only point I disagree on is the presentation. There's a big difference between "this isn't the game I wanted" and "they launched the game then abandoned it", which is what I took "fired and forgot" to mean. Blizzard, however slowly, has been listening to the players and has taken huge strides to rectify the issues they have been complaining about. Could they have done it faster? Maybe, but this is a massive game and I don't blame Blizzard for not wanting to make sweeping changes too quickly. They've come under fire in the past for doing that with other games. I've been impressed with the level of support and consumer response that Blizzard has done with D3.

Mex wrote:

I dunno if that makes sense, but mostly it was the excellent "feel" of the combat that I kept playing it for, hoping for Blizzard to fix the other issues like itemization and monster density.

Wait, now I'm really confused. If what kept you playing was the excellent feel of the combat, then doesn't that mean you enjoyed the game despite the itemization issues? Then why wouldn't the changes to itemization through all the latest patches improve the game?

fangblackbone wrote:
Took them a year to bring the game close to what it should've been on launch

How quickly we forget that the same could have been said for Diablo 2. The game was refined dramatically by the expansion that came out a year later. (sorry for the dead horse beating)

Haha, no problem, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse too, but from the other side.

I never played D1 or D2 online, just finished the campaign and moved on. I played a lot of D3 on the other hand, and I kind of regret it. I guess I became kind of invested in it, usually I'd just move on.

Which is what I'm going to do now, just someone asked what we thought about the console port.
: )

I'm fairly disappointed that the console version of Diablo 3 sounds more like what the pc version should've been, and is still planned to not be.

I never played D1 or D2 online, just finished the campaign and moved on.

Imagine the impression you would have had of Diablo 3 if you just played through the campaign and quit?
I don't think the itemization really breaks down until the later acts in hell difficulty IIRC in D3.

And really, i know I have said it before but none of D3's drawbacks compare to the first few months of D2 where you had to play single player to upgrade enough and scrounge for enough health potions to play multiplayer. (nearly the same amount of stuff dropped no matter how many people you had in game and their was no where near as many upgrades dropping)

Don't forget that both exceptional and elite tiered items were added in D2 patches much later. This is like trying to get through nightmare and hell difficulty with level 20-30 weapons in D3. (with the caveat that skill damage was not tied to weapon damage for many skills)

Also, the uniques in d3 were largely useless until more were added and many were revamped in much later patches.

Mr Crinkle wrote:

I like the concept of the AH as a way to prevent RNG-screw. It's always frustrating in games when you build a claw-only character, and then don't see any decent claws for several levels.

It's worse than that I think. Items in D3 display a huge array of stat bonuses, and each bonus is computed entirely randomly. Also, the power of all skills in the game hinges on a computed attack score based on these stats plus base weapon damage. The effect of these factors in combination is that the right stats are both exceedingly important, and the likelihood of getting exactly the right selection of stats on an item is extremely small.

In D2, skill power wasn't dependent on attack power for most classes so instead of focusing purely on attack power it was encouraged to get items with interesting bonuses. Also, the diversity of stats on items was lower, and the number of set and unique items and the frequency with which they dropped was very high. So in D2 players would grind for specific named items that would always be as expected (in D3 you can still end up with uniques that have terrible stat bonuses), and the random items picked up were also more likely to be something the player would actually use. I don't know whether D2 also skewed item generation towards the classes playing at the time, but it wouldn't surprise me if this were so.

I think it's too late for them to try to separate skill power from being based on attack power, so what they need to do is simplify item generation and presentation so drops are statistically more likely to be something useful. They should also consider skewing generated items to be good for the players in the game at the time. And give us more named items with predictable stats so we have something to search for.

I never played D1 or D2 online, just finished the campaign and moved on.

Funny, I've only ever played Diablo online. I always wanted the option of multi play, so I'd just play in a locked instance if I was feeling antisocial. And I played a lot, though I was eventually frustrated by the static skill tree in D2 and quit playing. But I remember the day I got the Dreamflange in D1, for example. It was super exciting. And while I like the mechanics in D3 much better, I never felt that same excitement about anything I found and never felt inspired to repeat areas in hopes of finding different loot.

complexmath wrote:

I don't know whether D2 also skewed item generation towards the classes playing at the time, but it wouldn't surprise me if this were so.

It most certainly did not. I played an Assassin to level 97, and I very rarely got a Claw of any kind, and never saw a Natalya even drop. I wasn't a hard-core D2 farmer or anything, but it was incredibly frustrating trying to gear a high level Assassin in that game.

This is what I keep saying, a lot of people seem to think that D2 had way better itemization than D3 does, but it's not true. D2 itemization sucked as well, ESPECIALLY at the high levels when you're trying to farm Hell Baal or something similar. D3 is slightly worse due to having more stats than D2 did, I agree there, but this is nothing we haven't seen before. And just like fangblackbone said, it took an expansion and numerous patches, including complete overhaul patches like 1.10, to get D2 to the place that most people remember.

I take the existence of the player-driven trading market, and the myriad D2 gold/item farming websites, as proof that D2 was no different than D3. If D2 itemization was so much better, then why did people have to create a system where trading rare runes was the best way to get the best items in the game? And why did an entire industry spring up surrounding farming for runes/items in the game?

The reality does not match what people claim to be remembering.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm not saying the complaints people leverage against D3 are wrong or somehow invalid. I just think this may be a case of rose-tinted goggles, D2 was a very long time ago after all.

You're probably right. Some of it in my case was also that I've always played Sorcerors, so a pretty wide range of drops were perfectly good loot as far as I was concerned. I think I was also pretty lucky with some drops. I ended up getting the "optimal" item with not a lot of grinding for certain key slots. Vidala's Fetlock was a game changer for me in D2, for example, and I got that on my first playthrough of the expansion. By comparison, in D3 I didn't find a single item worth keeping between level 35 and 58 (where I am now). Probably just random bad luck, but if weren't for the AH I probably would have quit before finishing Nightmare.

I don't remember how I got my gear in D2. I think a lot of it was hand me downs from people who got really lucky drops. I know for certain I never would have been able to beat Hell on my own, I got boosted through that by people who had way more time than I did. I also remember joining a lot of higher level cow runs, and skimming the "junk" drops those players didn't want. It was easy to get gear you could at least use if you joined a high level farmer who was looking for a specific set item, and didn't want all those useless yellows.

I wish I still had those D2 characters. That was what really pushed me out of D2 in the end, the ladder resets and loss of characters if you didn't play for 3 months. I heard that's no longer the case, but at this point I'm not going to go back to D2 when there's D3.

Sorceresses were a whole different animal. They were extremely powerful with no equipment at all. (especially after just a few points into frozen orb) All you really needed is a necro wand with big +mana and resistences and you were good as gold. Trapassins were largely the same. Those two classes were the ones I played the most by far.

And I certainly recall what ahrezmendi was saying about D2 where the loot drops were geared for other classes and not the one you were playing.

I would be interested in people's real reactions if they tried to install and play D2 1.00 now.

It was even worse trying to play a Druid...

The problem in D2X was that they added the new class-specific items, but they didn't adjust the drop rates for anything, so you suddenly had more items than before with the same % drop chance, only the new items weren't usable by 5/6 of the cast. Of course the opposite side of that coin is that only 1/6 of the new items were usable by your character, so you wound up with a really bad drop rate for your unique items.

Back on the D3 note, I think 1.08 is going to resolve a lot of the itemization issues people had with the base game. It probably won't bring people back to the game, but for people who are still playing from time to time, like myself, it should be awesome. I really want to get my Witch Doctor up to 60 in preparation for that.