Diablo III Catch-All 2.0

I've farmed the act 3 keywarden six times so far (and killed him three more times at MP0) and no key. I farmed the act 2 keywarden once today and got a key. Stupid random number generators.

Mex wrote:

On the other hand, there's something really relaxing for me when I play it, the gameplay or game mechanics or whatever it's called, I love playing some tv show or radio on the background and just zoning out for a half hour, it's just a very good action RPG. The movement feels good, the instant feedback from using your skills, the enemies exploding, it's all so satisfying.

The AH is a crutch, for sure, the whole social thing is kind of useless, the servers going down always at the wrong time (lost like 50 million or more on an auction twice now, thanks to their servers crashing), etc. It just feels like a money-grab from all angles.

But damn them, the core game is just fun :s

I'm 100% with Mex on this one. I've been playing D3 over Borderlands 2 and XCOM lately and the only reason that I can think of why is that the core game is just very satisfying. Lets also not forget that D2 did not shine until the expansion was released. They've done a lot of good things with D3 since release to shape it into a very good game even without an expansion.

Copingsaw wrote:

I'm 100% with Mex on this one. I've been playing D3 over Borderlands 2 and XCOM lately and the only reason that I can think of why is that the core game is just very satisfying. Lets also not forget that D2 did not shine until the expansion was released. They've done a lot of good things with D3 since release to shape it into a very good game even without an expansion.

It's got the loops. The gameplay is just really, really tight, and that has to be the thing that keeps you playing in the long run.

Honestly, I don't really know what people were even expecting from the "endgame" of D3. It's going to be a loot grind, pure and simple, and that means at some point upgrades are going to end up being reallllly slow in coming.

gore wrote:
Copingsaw wrote:

I'm 100% with Mex on this one. I've been playing D3 over Borderlands 2 and XCOM lately and the only reason that I can think of why is that the core game is just very satisfying. Lets also not forget that D2 did not shine until the expansion was released. They've done a lot of good things with D3 since release to shape it into a very good game even without an expansion.

It's got the loops. The gameplay is just really, really tight, and that has to be the thing that keeps you playing in the long run.

Honestly, I don't really know what people were even expecting from the "endgame" of D3. It's going to be a loot grind, pure and simple, and that means at some point upgrades are going to end up being reallllly slow in coming.

I think people got used to the please everyone give everyone sets that WoW turned into.

I think they broke even the fun of the last 15 levels with the level restriction -15 items. my DH at 44 had 1400 dps. At 45 I was over 10k dps and one shotting everything. Still have two characters to finish though to get to inferno, my sorc is 11 and my monk is 1. Eventually hope to have a 60 of each.

gore wrote:

Honestly, I don't really know what people were even expecting from the "endgame" of D3. It's going to be a loot grind, pure and simple, and that means at some point upgrades are going to end up being reallllly slow in coming.

Well, for me, the issue isn't that diminishing returns occur. It's that (as a primarily solo player who would rather beat up monsters for items than shop for them on an auction house) I hit that point far, FAR earlier than I did with Diablo 1 or 2.

edit: And it has nothing to do with WoW to me; they're completely different games in terms of what I enjoy out of them.

Farscry wrote:
gore wrote:

Honestly, I don't really know what people were even expecting from the "endgame" of D3. It's going to be a loot grind, pure and simple, and that means at some point upgrades are going to end up being reallllly slow in coming.

Well, for me, the issue isn't that diminishing returns occur. It's that (as a primarily solo player who would rather beat up monsters for items than shop for them on an auction house) I hit that point far, FAR earlier than I did with Diablo 1 or 2.

edit: And it has nothing to do with WoW to me; they're completely different games in terms of what I enjoy out of them.

I don't know if it's earlier. Remember that D2 only had 3 levels of difficulty and D3 has 4. I don't remember where they stated it, but inferno was supposed to be harder than hell in D2. I die a lot in nightmare and hell, but it's never felt unpassable.

Farscry wrote:

Well, for me, the issue isn't that diminishing returns occur. It's that (as a primarily solo player who would rather beat up monsters for items than shop for them on an auction house) I hit that point far, FAR earlier than I did with Diablo 1 or 2.

I can certainly relate to your disappointment (at least at launch), and I think it all basically boiled down to the game being too hard to "beat" without using the AH. Launch inferno was so hard that trying to finish it without the AH would require an obscene amount of time. From my perspective, the key mistake was placing that "wall" before you hit the "end" of the game - it seems like a minor thing, but psychologically it felt really bad.

I think now, with Paragon levels and a nerfed monster power 0, they've nailed the difficulty curve. I bet you can play through MP0 now in a reasonable timeframe without ever needing the AH.

gore wrote:

I think now, with Paragon levels and a nerfed monster power 0, they've nailed the difficulty curve. I bet you can play through MP0 now in a reasonable timeframe without ever needing the AH.

I should try it again then. That's one of the reasons I haven't really gone off on the game; because in spite of my complaints, everything that it needs to be more to my liking is in place, but needed tweaking/updating (as someone else said, Diablo 2 was good, but it was the expansion that really kicked everything up a notch).

Queueball wrote:

I don't know if it's earlier. Remember that D2 only had 3 levels of difficulty and D3 has 4. I don't remember where they stated it, but inferno was supposed to be harder than hell in D2. I die a lot in nightmare and hell, but it's never felt unpassable.

"Earlier" is relative; it's a combination of progression through the game, character level, and time invested.

I can play Diablo 2 and not feel like I'm plateauing the same way until fairly well into Hell difficulty, because even when I may not be finding things that are significantly more powerful, I can find things that are compelling "sidegrades". And there's also a lot of time played by that point too.

With Diablo 3, I wasn't concerned about Inferno because I viewed it as a bonus difficulty. I started plateauing in Nightmare difficulty, as drops became less and less worthwhile (what upgrades I did find were limited to incremental stat increases but nothing more interesting). Then in Hell difficulty, due to the plateaued itemization/drop-rate, I brickwalled so badly and got so bored that I eventually had to resort to the AH. So finishing Hell felt cheapened to me afterward, and I wished I hadn't bought gear on the AH.

I like the crafters for getting upgrades, because that's pretty similar to how gambling for items worked in D2 (only a lot less random, unfortunately).

But anyway, the Paragon levels are (IMO) an awesome improvement, and I'm looking forward to messing with the game again with this whole Monster Power thing (I mostly played Diablo 2 with "/players 4" running).

And, last night. Another legendary. This time an amulet.

Xephirian-Amulet

It rolled fairly nicely for my Witchdoctor. A bit of intelligence. A bit of dexterity. A bonus to my mana pool. 39% MF/GF. Unfortunately, its a a 15% DPS decrease over my self-found rare amulet. Still, maybe I'll use it early Act 1/MP1 farming runs.

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

Farscry wrote:

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

I'm not sure if I've been imagining this, but it sure feels like blue and yellow mobs have been stacking up more frequently since. 1.04.

Hollowheel wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

I'm not sure if I've been imagining this, but it sure feels like blue and yellow mobs have been stacking up more frequently since. 1.04.

That seemed to be the case last night too. And I loved it.

Definitely felt more like Diablo 2's frantic and ravenous hordes of monsters to deal with. I even had to drink a health potion once. And it was on normal difficulty (MP1 setting though).

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

I don't think so. Or at least, they haven't advertised it.

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

Don't think so.. could be because things take longer to kill it just feels like there's more happening since they aren't dying as fast anymore and if you're doing some sort of kiting you are running into even more mobs. I know when I foolishly tried MP5 on patch day I thought the monsters would never end. If you hit one of those spawner type enemies and you can't kill things fast enough you get overwhelmed.

strangederby wrote:

I've not played Diablo but I read this and wondered how truthful it was: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/05/editorial-diablo-3-auction-house-do-not-post/

From the article: "Some will get everything they want from a single playthrough, others when they hit sixty, and others when they have the finest loot and have beaten the toughest enemies. " The first group were my friends, I'm in the second group, and I don't know anyone in the third since I'm playing other games. Yes, D3 was fun, and it's well oiled and changing abilities on the fly is a min/max adaptive wonder to behold, but the drop system is a deal-breaker for me.

You have to play through the game once on retarded difficulty, once on easy (Nightmare?), then finally get to play real Diablo (Hell?), and advancing to hard (Inferno?) if you can pound your brain up against a hard wall enough times. For your first three playthroughs, the items that drop for you are always just a few levels lower than what you are, so they are indeed useless, and you've got to play the Market. Now, if you LOVE playing markets, D3 just might be the best game ever for you. There's a Elysium article from...July?...where he explains the schadenfreude at finding an uber-sword-of-wonder for only $Xk gold and buying it instantly and selling it a few hours later for $XXXk gold.

I may have enjoyed that some years back, but it's not what I want to be doing anymore when I load an ACTION RPG. I enjoyed D1 and D2 for the spectacle and randomness and finding that nice new something every once in a while to really stick it to the man (Diablo). Diablo 3 doesn't let you find items that are actually good until you're playing on Inferno, Act II+, which means investing...30+ (?)...hours in, and at the point when you've probably already gotten pretty sick of the environments. So ya, Diablo 3 is kind of broken. Best with friends, like L4D.

NOTE: I have NOT played since they added Monster Power. I am open to the possibility that the first 20 hours of the game might not suck if using that, but haven't the inclination to verify.

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

That's weird, you sure you always have 5 NV stacks before looking for him? I have 10 keys already, he drops one like every other run for me : p

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

No, I was noticing the difference even before I figured out how to enable the Monster Power thing. I think it's more of a tuning thing they changed in some patch(es?) since I last played much.

And it was seriously noticeable; the general monster packs were more densely populated than I recall, and their low density was actually one of my complaints about the game when it launched. I found a disappointing lack of the craziness from Diablo 2. Now I don't.

I would say the feeling of there being more monsters or larger mobs comes into play when you are more under powered. The more powerful you are the more a mob feels like it'll overwhelm you. Once I figure how to handle mobs (and/or find better items), sometimes it feels like I can't find them fast enough.

Queueball wrote:

I would say the feeling of there being more monsters or larger mobs comes into play when you are more under powered. The more powerful you are the more a mob feels like it'll overwhelm you. Once I figure how to handle mobs (and/or find better items), sometimes it feels like I can't find them fast enough.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You appear to not be understanding what I'm saying, however.

I wander into a spot on the map, and now see maybe 20 enemies barreling at me when back in June that number would've been 10.

I don't know how much more plainly I can state this.

The point being, the monster density seems to be improved, which is a good thing. I think what's happening is that either more packs or bigger packs are being spawned, and/or they are spawning more closely together (I'm seeing more adds joining the fray than I recall too).

Farscry, why do you hate the game so much?

iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

It took me at least 10 runs at MP3 to get the plans, but keys seem to be dropping for me at least 1 every 3 or 4 runs. Of course I say this missing an act 2 key that i've been trying to get for a few days.

The only upside to it though is at least act 3 is probably the most fun act of the game (IMHO). Easy and quick to get 5 stacks of NV and head straight to stonefort.. if you want to farm more, you can keep going down the dungeon in the keep or the end dungeon (forgot what its called).

Carlbear95 wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

It took me at least 10 runs at MP3 to get the plans, but keys seem to be dropping for me at least 1 every 3 or 4 runs. Of course I say this missing an act 2 key that i've been trying to get for a few days.

The only upside to it though is at least act 3 is probably the most fun act of the game (IMHO). Easy and quick to get 5 stacks of NV and head straight to stonefort.. if you want to farm more, you can keep going down the dungeon in the keep or the end dungeon (forgot what its called).

I really like act 3 as well, the middle part. The beginning and the crater don't thrill me at all.

Dakuna wrote:

I really like act 3 as well, the middle part. The beginning and the crater don't thrill me at all.

Yeah that's the only act that really feels Diablo-y, the keep depths and all that. The crater is fun when you get huge waves of spiders, but the other enemies are just annoying.

Mex wrote:

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

MP0 has a 5% chance to drop a key.

I know when I foolishly tried MP5 on patch day I thought the monsters would never end. If you hit one of those spawner type enemies and you can't kill things fast enough you get overwhelmed.

Oh yeah. That nearly happened to me on launch day too. I started a new WD on mp10 and the wretched queens had to be focused as much as I could or I would get overrun. And that is only at character level 3 or 4.

Lotsa fun though!

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Mex wrote:

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

MP0 has a 5% chance to drop a key.

Huh, just as I was going to post that I just found a key on MP0 : )

Just got Paragon Level 40, I'll admit it's getting... a bit boring. Feeling kind of mind numbing...

Also apparently this is the "Epic" armor set for Witch doctors or whatever, Zunimassa's set:
IMAGE(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/899666faceset.jpg)

Ummm... I think it looks awful, looks designed to appeal to a 12 year old, or maybe inspired by Flea from the RHCP :/

If it's a witch doctor what's with all the squiggly gold lines and stuff, any of the other old designs look better and more appropiate : p

IMAGE(http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/122/1221557/diablo-iii-20120325013832604-000.jpg)

Mex...Vanishing potions, I think all of the Witchdoctor Helms look terrible. And that set does nothing for my build.

So I just got back into D3 after some colleagues were talking about the new patch.

I am not sure if rolling through the paragon levels intrigues me all that much. Is there a leveling group, similar to our WoW groups? I would much prefer to roll one of my newbies in a group of 4. I never did much co-op for my Witchdoctor, and almost none in D2.