Torchlight 2 Catch-All

Scratched wrote:
DeThroned wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

Why would anyone pre-order the game with no discount and no release date? Don't believe the pre-release hype schedule for games (in general) and you won't have your expectations crushed. I think most of this will die down after the game comes out anyway--people just don't have anything else to talk about regarding the game right now.

Because I did get a discount as I went in on a 4 pack. I think it was $15? It was so long ago I don't even remember now.

But presumably you could have bought that 4 pack at release and it would be the same price, meanwhile that money has been in your bank for a few months extra.

Yeah, let's just pretend that's not true.

kthxbye

BlackSabre wrote:

Wait, it's coming out in less than a month and people are complaining?

You're assuming it actually comes out on the 20th. Given Torchlight 2's track record, that's a pretty big assumption.

D-Man777 wrote:
Scratched wrote:
DeThroned wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

Why would anyone pre-order the game with no discount and no release date? Don't believe the pre-release hype schedule for games (in general) and you won't have your expectations crushed. I think most of this will die down after the game comes out anyway--people just don't have anything else to talk about regarding the game right now.

Because I did get a discount as I went in on a 4 pack. I think it was $15? It was so long ago I don't even remember now.

But presumably you could have bought that 4 pack at release and it would be the same price, meanwhile that money has been in your bank for a few months extra.

Yeah, let's just pretend that's not true.

kthxbye

OK, you do that. Meanwhile all the smart investors are going to make it rain with that 1/160th of a cent they earned on the interest!

But clearly having money tied up in that pre-order is causing a lot of people angst. Aside from the financial practices, why do it?

carrotpanic wrote:

But clearly having money tied up in that pre-order is causing a lot of people angst. Aside from the financial practices, why do it?

Because my life is empty and spending money makes me feel like it has some measure of worth, if only by fiat.

We have a winner!

LobsterMobster wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

But clearly having money tied up in that pre-order is causing a lot of people angst. Aside from the financial practices, why do it?

Because my life is empty and spending money makes me feel like it has some measure of worth, if only by fiat.

IMAGE(http://turbo124.com/images/500-pjorn.jpg)

I could think of worse things to spend money on

I can't. Fiat's a pretty sh*tty brand these parts

Scratched wrote:
DeThroned wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

Why would anyone pre-order the game with no discount and no release date? Don't believe the pre-release hype schedule for games (in general) and you won't have your expectations crushed. I think most of this will die down after the game comes out anyway--people just don't have anything else to talk about regarding the game right now.

Because I did get a discount as I went in on a 4 pack. I think it was $15? It was so long ago I don't even remember now.

But presumably you could have bought that 4 pack at release and it would be the same price, meanwhile that money has been in your bank for a few months extra.

Yeah, earning 0.0% interest.

On another note...

There's some serious whining and armchair quarterbacking going on here. We bitch when devs rush a title out too quickly and we bitch when anyone but Blizzard takes extra time to get sh*t right and we all pretend to be experts in game production and marketing.

Torchlight was a buttload of fun for $20 and Torchlight 2 will be a buttload of fun for $20. I'm just going to be happy to play more of the fun that was Torchlight but being able to do it coop with my family. Would it have been more convenient for me if we'd been able to do it while my son was out of school this summer? Sure. Has my life really been impacted AT ALL by it not being out yet? Nope.

I say let them polish it until they're happy with it. As a developer, there's not many worse fellings in the world than being forced to release something that you know isn't ready and that will likely damage your reputation.

I'll show meself out.

More power to them on the release date. It's their game.

On the other hand:

I'm, uhm..extremely un-fond, shall we say.. of pre-orders, and this situation is one of the primary reasons. I won't do it unless it's within a couple of weeks of release. Even then you can still get screwed. There's very little point in it either, in the world of PC games and digital distribution. (Unless the publisher is deliberately manufacturing reasons, which is clever but detestable. )

Definitely a case of buyer beware.

duckilama wrote:

There's some serious whining and armchair quarterbacking going on here. We bitch when devs rush a title out too quickly and we bitch when anyone but Blizzard takes extra time to get sh*t right and we all pretend to be experts in game production and marketing.

Torchlight was a buttload of fun for $20 and Torchlight 2 will be a buttload of fun for $20. I'm just going to be happy to play more of the fun that was Torchlight but being able to do it coop with my family. Would it have been more convenient for me if we'd been able to do it while my son was out of school this summer? Sure. Has my life really been impacted AT ALL by it not being out yet? Nope.

I say let them polish it until they're happy with it. As a developer, there's not many worse fellings in the world than being forced to release something that you know isn't ready and that will likely damage your reputation.

I'll show meself out.

I sympathize. I'm sure as hell not a developer and I know practically nothing about making games, but am definitely a fan of the first Torchlight.

My problem with the situation has always been that these guys had what the press termed "a finish product" a year ago, literally. Maybe that was their own fanboyism, but by just about all accounts, it was done then according to everyone. That is, everyone but Runic.

It's Runic's game. It's their call to make when their game is, indeed, "done." But at the same time, as a fan, it's frustrating when I hear a year ago that the new game is "done," and personally, I get impatient. [Note: I'm trying to find the Conference Call episode where Cory and Shawn talked about it...I swear it was last year, either E3 or PAX...]

Then I say "Guys, I'm just fine with a new Ferrari...but I don't need that Ferrari to have a helicopter landing pad and a swimming pool and a kitchen sink...the Ferrari is great as it is. You may think it's better, but I'm not so sure..."

My concern was and is for the developers. I really liked Torchlight, and was very much looking forward to playing the sequel with other people. When they didn't have the game out before Diablo 3, I felt like they were leaving money on the table. When they didn't get it out about two months after Diablo 3, I thought they missed a chance to grab a hold of a lot of D3 players who were ready to play something new, especially in the same genre. Now they announce the release date, and it is in direct competition with Borderlands 2, another co-op loot gathering game, even if it is an FPS rather than an isometric clicking ARPG. I know I will still buy Torchlight 2, but now I know I don't have to get it at launch - most of the people I would play with will be playing Borderlands 2. If I don't get it at launch, why not just wait for a sale? 20 bucks is hardly breaking the bank, but why not save some money if I won't likely be playing it until the price drops? I just feel bad for the developers, because I strongly suspect they have earned a 20 dollar purchase, and they might be missing out.

I am operating under the assumption that they have thought of that, and weighed the pros/cons of spending more time on the game. You don't need to be concerned for them.

Atras wrote:

My concern was and is for the developers. I really liked Torchlight, and was very much looking forward to playing the sequel with other people. When they didn't have the game out before Diablo 3, I felt like they were leaving money on the table. When they didn't get it out about two months after Diablo 3, I thought they missed a chance to grab a hold of a lot of D3 players who were ready to play something new, especially in the same genre. Now they announce the release date, and it is in direct competition with Borderlands 2, another co-op loot gathering game, even if it is an FPS rather than an isometric clicking ARPG. I know I will still buy Torchlight 2, but now I know I don't have to get it at launch - most of the people I would play with will be playing Borderlands 2. If I don't get it at launch, why not just wait for a sale? 20 bucks is hardly breaking the bank, but why not save some money if I won't likely be playing it until the price drops? I just feel bad for the developers, because I strongly suspect they have earned a 20 dollar purchase, and they might be missing out.

I think a lot of the success of TL1 was due to the frequency of the Steam sales for it. Aside from the initial surge in pre-orders when the order page went live, I don't think they've had a sustained presence on the Popular tab on the front page. I imagine we're going to see very similar behavior this time around, and I think Runic is playing the long game and don't care if they're not in the limelight the first day/week.

Having preordered the game doesn't really have anything to do with it. I preordered it because 1) I was excited for it after playing the beta (I had a lot of fun in the beta and it was only going to get better so I was pretty much sold) and 2) a bunch of people were doing 4packs and I figured it would be easy to get into one then. I don't regret my preorder at all and never said that I did.

ChipRMonk wrote:

More power to them on the release date. It's their game.

On the other hand:

I'm, uhm..extremely un-fond, shall we say.. of pre-orders, and this situation is one of the primary reasons. I won't do it unless it's within a couple of weeks of release. Even then you can still get screwed. There's very little point in it either, in the world of PC games and digital distribution. (Unless the publisher is deliberately manufacturing reasons, which is clever but detestable. )

Definitely a case of buyer beware.

Generally I only pre-order when there is a deal to do so. When Amazon gives back $10-20 in credit, and sometimes I already have credit there from a previous deal, I just roll that over. Or when there's a 4-pack or pre-order deal on Steam. Like I think L4D2 ending up being $30 instead of $50 on pre-order, and something similar with Bioshock 2, in 4-packs. And similarly Mass Effect 3 had a big 20% off deal on Direct2Drive, which when you count the pre-order DLC price, ends up making it pretty cheap too.

Anytime I can get a console game for $40 or a PC game for $30 on the release day, I am usually interested. Most of the time it's a couple of months before the price drops that low again.

Geez guys, I can't feel any sympathy for you. I preordered Elemental a year before it released. Lesson learned.

In my own defense, I did call my initial rant "selfish."

I have no issue with the game not releasing soon after I pre-purchased. I just really wanted to play it during the summer downtime (June - August). Again, self-proclaimed selfishness. But I also want Runic to get every dollar they deserve for creating a good game, and I know it is, based on the 20+ hours I put into the closed beta. I fear that releasing TL2 the same time as Borderlands 2 (not to mention other anticipated games of September and early October) will result in plenty of people opting to wait for a half-price sale before buying.

ilduce620 wrote:
duckilama wrote:

There's some serious whining and armchair quarterbacking going on here. We bitch when devs rush a title out too quickly and we bitch when anyone but Blizzard takes extra time to get sh*t right and we all pretend to be experts in game production and marketing.

Torchlight was a buttload of fun for $20 and Torchlight 2 will be a buttload of fun for $20. I'm just going to be happy to play more of the fun that was Torchlight but being able to do it coop with my family. Would it have been more convenient for me if we'd been able to do it while my son was out of school this summer? Sure. Has my life really been impacted AT ALL by it not being out yet? Nope.

I say let them polish it until they're happy with it. As a developer, there's not many worse fellings in the world than being forced to release something that you know isn't ready and that will likely damage your reputation.

I'll show meself out.

I sympathize. I'm sure as hell not a developer and I know practically nothing about making games, but am definitely a fan of the first Torchlight.

My problem with the situation has always been that these guys had what the press termed "a finish product" a year ago, literally. Maybe that was their own fanboyism, but by just about all accounts, it was done then according to everyone. That is, everyone but Runic.

It's Runic's game. It's their call to make when their game is, indeed, "done." But at the same time, as a fan, it's frustrating when I hear a year ago that the new game is "done," and personally, I get impatient. [Note: I'm trying to find the Conference Call episode where Cory and Shawn talked about it...I swear it was last year, either E3 or PAX...]

Then I say "Guys, I'm just fine with a new Ferrari...but I don't need that Ferrari to have a helicopter landing pad and a swimming pool and a kitchen sink...the Ferrari is great as it is. You may think it's better, but I'm not so sure..."

This.

Runic themselves even said it would be out in 2011 "unless someone dies". Shortly after 1/1/12, I posted that I was sorry to hear someone on the dev team passed away only to realize, I'd be duped.

And for the record, I don't give blizzard a pass on dev time either but they've never said " unless someone dies".

If D3 hadn't sucked so bad, I wouldn't be down for TL2.

Farscry wrote:

Geez guys, I can't feel any sympathy for you. I preordered Elemental a year before it released. Lesson learned. ;)

Elemental and SotS2 here.

I didn't see any multiplayer in beta. Was it there? Did it work well? Was it as easy as Steam MP? Were there any bugs that they might have squandered heir reputation on had it released on time? I also didn't see any of the higher level play. Was it balanced and fun? Even in MP? What happened to the difficulty of a boss if someone got disconnected? How was the netcode? Was Internet play as lag free as lan play?

I only saw SP in the beta and since the main draw of this over the original is coop, I cant really comment on how done it is. I can say that buggy MP would be more bothersome than waiting until it works.

The MP was just about perfect, though anything above 3 (maybe 4) players in one game meant too many effects going on at the same time. It wasn't quite as easy as Steamworks, but that's only because you have to create a new friends list. Once you'd friended someone, it was flawless.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Geez guys, I can't feel any sympathy for you. I preordered Elemental a year before it released. Lesson learned. ;)

Elemental and SotS2 here.

Ouch. You win. Though that's not a prize I want.

On-topic, I'm actually eager to see Torchlight 2 finally get released as well!

ibdoomed wrote:
ilduce620 wrote:
duckilama wrote:

There's some serious whining and armchair quarterbacking going on here. We bitch when devs rush a title out too quickly and we bitch when anyone but Blizzard takes extra time to get sh*t right and we all pretend to be experts in game production and marketing.

Torchlight was a buttload of fun for $20 and Torchlight 2 will be a buttload of fun for $20. I'm just going to be happy to play more of the fun that was Torchlight but being able to do it coop with my family. Would it have been more convenient for me if we'd been able to do it while my son was out of school this summer? Sure. Has my life really been impacted AT ALL by it not being out yet? Nope.

I say let them polish it until they're happy with it. As a developer, there's not many worse fellings in the world than being forced to release something that you know isn't ready and that will likely damage your reputation.

I'll show meself out.

I sympathize. I'm sure as hell not a developer and I know practically nothing about making games, but am definitely a fan of the first Torchlight.

My problem with the situation has always been that these guys had what the press termed "a finish product" a year ago, literally. Maybe that was their own fanboyism, but by just about all accounts, it was done then according to everyone. That is, everyone but Runic.

It's Runic's game. It's their call to make when their game is, indeed, "done." But at the same time, as a fan, it's frustrating when I hear a year ago that the new game is "done," and personally, I get impatient. [Note: I'm trying to find the Conference Call episode where Cory and Shawn talked about it...I swear it was last year, either E3 or PAX...]

Then I say "Guys, I'm just fine with a new Ferrari...but I don't need that Ferrari to have a helicopter landing pad and a swimming pool and a kitchen sink...the Ferrari is great as it is. You may think it's better, but I'm not so sure..."

This.

Runic themselves even said it would be out in 2011 "unless someone dies". Shortly after 1/1/12, I posted that I was sorry to hear someone on the dev team passed away only to realize, I'd be duped.

And for the record, I don't give blizzard a pass on dev time either but they've never said " unless someone dies".

If D3 hadn't sucked so bad, I wouldn't be down for TL2.

So saying "unless someone dies" gives you the right to claim some kind of moral high ground for berating them? Stop being a pedantic jerk with your trumpeting that you proclaimed on "1/1/12" that someone had died because you hadn't gotten your game yet. Grow up.

ibdoomed wrote:

Runic themselves even said it would be out in 2011 "unless someone dies". Shortly after 1/1/12, I posted that I was sorry to hear someone on the dev team passed away only to realize, I'd be duped.

You know, if someone on the dev team lost a close loved one but they didn't feel like publicizing it, this post sure would make you sound like an ass.

Granted, that's unlikely to be the case, but... damn, man. Chill out.

And you know what? It's not about the game. It's about making outlandish claims. It's about making promises you can't keep and you know it. I forgot that's not only acceptable in this industry, it's pretty much standard operating procedure. NINE months people, nine months. Runic knew they weren't even close. If it were a month, I could understand, something came up. But if you are going to put lives on the line... If I did that and didn't deliver, I'd be fired. Farking fired. But then I have had 11 deaths in my family this year so I'm covered.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

... and I'm in no hurry to spend money on something I won't get for some amount of time we're not even sure about yet.

Yup. Glad I took that stance back in May.

I don't really care either way.

ibdoomed wrote:

Runic knew they weren't even close.

You sure seem to have an awful lot of insider knowledge about Runic.

Me, I just think they bit off a lot more than they realized at first, and it took them a surprisingly long time to realize they couldn't chew it all up at once. It happens.

Worse cases of this happen in industries that are far more important to people's actual lives. I just don't see the point of getting all worked up over this.

Stele wrote:

Anytime I can get a console game for $40 or a PC game for $30 on the release day, I am usually interested. Most of the time it's a couple of months before the price drops that low again.

Oh, don't misunderstand. I've pre-ordered a week or so out in order to reserve a copy of something. Paying in full months ahead of time is another matter entirely. You see, there was this one incident involving one Legend of Zelda game... Yeah, I paid for that game twice. Something about losing the store record, and well it was close to a year later, hmm.

Well yeah, Gamestop sucks. But that's a whole other thread...

Stele wrote:

Well yeah, Gamestop sucks. But that's a whole other thread...

Oh, yeah. An epic thread of both great hilarity and great woe!

Still wouldn't have happened if the game had come out anywhere near its expected release date. Ya know, within 6 months or so.