Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 - Catch All (Oliver North Approved)

CptGlanton wrote:
So I've been away for a little while. Who wants to set up a time to play (360)? Maybe Thursday night?

I should be able to get on Thursday night. I have to bring my daughter to and from SAT prep, but I should be around for the most part.

I am sick of people complaining about campers. Campers can be beaten, generally pretty easily, and I enjoy doing it. If someone enjoys camping, why should I complain about it? I let them play their game, and I play mine. Especially in objective based games, camping is a seriously good tactical decision, I play a lot of capture the flag and hear people complaining about campers all the time. It's beyond me how anyone would ever win capture the flag without at least a couple semi-campers.

Personally I hate camping as I find it boring, I prefer to be running around lone-wolf style gunning down campers and cappers alike, but I don't see any reason why I should complain about someone else's choice of play-style. I do swear at people when I feel I should have won the exchange though /confession.

Dakuna wrote:
Personally I hate camping as I find it boring, I prefer to be running around lone-wolf style gunning down campers and cappers alike, but I don't see any reason why I should complain about someone else's choice of play-style. I do swear at people when I feel I should have won the exchange though /confession.

There is no greater joy in games like this than, 6-8 people in a party locking down an entire section of the map. It never ceases to amaze me, how people will continually throw themselves at a well coordinated wall of death like that.

The second greatest pleasure is a well coordinated team rooting out the people holding a section of the map.

TigerBill wrote:
Dakuna wrote:
Personally I hate camping as I find it boring, I prefer to be running around lone-wolf style gunning down campers and cappers alike, but I don't see any reason why I should complain about someone else's choice of play-style. I do swear at people when I feel I should have won the exchange though /confession.

There is no greater joy in games like this than, 6-8 people in a party locking down an entire section of the map. It never ceases to amaze me, how people will continually throw themselves at a well coordinated wall of death like that.

The second greatest pleasure is a well coordinated team rooting out the people holding a section of the map.

I did this with my brother and my nephew and one of my close friends with Black Ops, but it still gets old. Fish in barrels are really unchallenging targets. I personally think solo-breaking a locked down area is the single greatest thrill in FPS games.

I will try to remember to be on Thursday night.

The only players who truly frustrate me (and it's not their fault, because the game design stupidly allows this), are the sniper rifle quick-scopers and the bunny-flopping quick-scopers. It's especially ludicrous when you see through the killcam (hey, when I get one-shotted sometimes I just have to see wtf just happened) that they basically saw you in their peripheral vision, snapped to the side and as they were finishing rotating were already bringing up their scope, and fired just as the scope finished whipping up, one-shotting you.

That's just f*cking absurd, and it's nearly as much so with people bunny-flopping while quick-scoping with any weapon.

I know it's part of the game, and I live with it and deal with it as much as I can, because the rest of the time it's usually much more fun, but ugh... as much as the game is unrealistic, that simply strains credulity so much that it completely shatters the fourth wall for me (hell, probably even the fifth wall too).

Farscry wrote:
The only players who truly frustrate me (and it's not their fault, because the game design stupidly allows this), are the sniper rifle quick-scopers and the bunny-flopping quick-scopers. It's especially ludicrous when you see through the killcam (hey, when I get one-shotted sometimes I just have to see wtf just happened) that they basically saw you in their peripheral vision, snapped to the side and as they were finishing rotating were already bringing up their scope, and fired just as the scope finished whipping up, one-shotting you.

That's just f*cking absurd, and it's nearly as much so with people bunny-flopping while quick-scoping with any weapon.

I know it's part of the game, and I live with it and deal with it as much as I can, because the rest of the time it's usually much more fun, but ugh... as much as the game is unrealistic, that simply strains credulity so much that it completely shatters the fourth wall for me (hell, probably even the fifth wall too).

+1

Though I admit it takes skill to make this work, so... hard to be too offended about it.

Dakuna wrote:
Farscry wrote:
The only players who truly frustrate me (and it's not their fault, because the game design stupidly allows this), are the sniper rifle quick-scopers and the bunny-flopping quick-scopers. It's especially ludicrous when you see through the killcam (hey, when I get one-shotted sometimes I just have to see wtf just happened) that they basically saw you in their peripheral vision, snapped to the side and as they were finishing rotating were already bringing up their scope, and fired just as the scope finished whipping up, one-shotting you.

That's just f*cking absurd, and it's nearly as much so with people bunny-flopping while quick-scoping with any weapon.

I know it's part of the game, and I live with it and deal with it as much as I can, because the rest of the time it's usually much more fun, but ugh... as much as the game is unrealistic, that simply strains credulity so much that it completely shatters the fourth wall for me (hell, probably even the fifth wall too).

+1

Though I admit it takes skill to make this work, so... hard to be too offended about it.

Yup; again, it's not the players that really bug me, so much as the game allowing for this kind of ridiculousness in the first place. It would be as simple as causing scopes to initialize more "off-target" in a random direction based upon how strong the zoom is, and for sniper scopes to start off wobbling more initially and take even just a second to "settle down" a bit, and then boom, the extremes of quick-scoping are gone.

However, this has been around for many iterations, so since the devs have left it the way it is, it's clearly their intent for it to work this way. Disappointing to me, but the game also supports a wide range of playstyles and usually remains fun in spite of these annoyances.

Dakuna wrote:
Farscry wrote:
The only players who truly frustrate me (and it's not their fault, because the game design stupidly allows this), are the sniper rifle quick-scopers and the bunny-flopping quick-scopers. It's especially ludicrous when you see through the killcam (hey, when I get one-shotted sometimes I just have to see wtf just happened) that they basically saw you in their peripheral vision, snapped to the side and as they were finishing rotating were already bringing up their scope, and fired just as the scope finished whipping up, one-shotting you.

That's just f*cking absurd, and it's nearly as much so with people bunny-flopping while quick-scoping with any weapon.

I know it's part of the game, and I live with it and deal with it as much as I can, because the rest of the time it's usually much more fun, but ugh... as much as the game is unrealistic, that simply strains credulity so much that it completely shatters the fourth wall for me (hell, probably even the fifth wall too).

+1

Though I admit it takes skill to make this work, so... hard to be too offended about it.

And there's tools to combat it.

My favorite situation with people who yell camper are on the objective maps where you're supposed to defend an area... It's like they forget the definition of 'defend'

Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Is there some kind of setting you have to turn on/off to allow it to happen? The time's i've tried there's a good 1-2 second delay between pulling the trigger or ADS with the scope. When i see replays of guys doing it... it's instantaneous.

When i snipe it's more old fashioned

Campers don't bug me at all. Never have; they're often easy kill fodder for me. Plus yeah, that's a smart defensive tactic on objective modes.

ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Is there some kind of setting you have to turn on/off to allow it to happen? The time's i've tried there's a good 1-2 second delay between pulling the trigger or ADS with the scope. When i see replays of guys doing it... it's instantaneous.

When i snipe it's more old fashioned

I don't really get it either. I use it more traditionally and I have been able to do more damage to quick snipers with "hard-scoping" than they ever have to me. I love seeing quick scopers because I can just counter-snipe them all day long.

ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Basically, in the Call of Duty games, when you pull up a scope (any scope), the moment when the scope is first fully zoomed in, the crosshair is still centered where your crosshair was when you first started zooming in, and your shot now has the full accuracy of the scope. The wobble (if there is any) starts at this point.

So to quick-scope, you have a sniper rifle (or other high-zoom scope, even an ACOG will do, but it's particularly exploitive of the mechanics to use a sniper rifle), aim at your target with your regular reticle, then pull up the scope and -- the precise moment when the scope is fully zoomed in and hasn't started to sway -- you fire. Instead of using the poor dispersal that a non-scoped sniper shot would have, the game engine considers you to be fully aimed in (even if no human could possibly have actually lined up the shot at this point) for the purposes of calculating shot dispersal.

This is the opposite of how scopes are intended to work, which is that you point roughly where you want to shoot, fine-tune your aim while scoped in, and then fire.

It turns sniper rifles from long-range weapons that you setup prior to firing into any-range weapons that you snap up and shoot one-shot kills at near-instantaneous speed. The guys who are skilled at quick-scoping typically engage at short-to-medium range, where sniper rifles are not intended to be the best weapon choice.

MountaineerWR27 wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Is there some kind of setting you have to turn on/off to allow it to happen? The time's i've tried there's a good 1-2 second delay between pulling the trigger or ADS with the scope. When i see replays of guys doing it... it's instantaneous.

When i snipe it's more old fashioned

I don't really get it either. I use it more traditionally and I have been able to do more damage to quick snipers with "hard-scoping" than they ever have to me. I love seeing quick scopers because I can just counter-snipe them all day long.

Yes, if you're dealing with traditional long-range engagements, proper sniping is more effective to ensure you get a headshot.

Campers are people who purposely target spawn points. Defenders are people who defend objectives, which typically involves staying in the same area. The thing is though, I can't think of any maps where camping actually works for long? Sometimes it's harder with shock charges and bouncing betties securing entry points, but there's typically at least 2-3 entry points, and there's perks to counter these players.

My only pet-peeve about "Campers" is when you are playing an objective game like Domination. You kinda need to cap points to win. When you see someone 39-2 with zero caps and sometimes very low defends, you know they are shooting fish in the barrel. Why? Because killing people playing an objective game is the EASIEST thing to do in the game. You know where they are, you know the choke points, you can easily predict the flow of the battle, and you exploit it to your KDR advantage.

Yes, it is their fault for running to their death to cap a point at the last second, but you have to make some ballsy moves even if it requires death. +1 to someone capping, killing, and getting away barely limping and securing points for their team.

Not so much with Team Deathmatch and Kill Confirmed where you have to stay a bit more mobile. Or Hardcore modes.

Still, I don't get too put off - they want to play that way, and I'm fine with that. If everyone played exactly the same it would be a bit stale.

The quick scoping thing that irks me is that quite often the kill cam shows the scoper has missed. This is probably something technical why this isn't the case but it feels worse. I didn't aim and I didn't hit but you are still dead.

As bad as the scoping/shotgun/knifing is I get killed far more often by normal means. Remember the bad old days of the John Wayne shotgun and knife lunge in MW2?

Farscry wrote:
Yes, if you're dealing with traditional long-range engagements, proper sniping is more effective to ensure you get a headshot.
Not many maps where there is long range.

If you want to 'defend and area' the danger close perk with two bettys is mint. I use this all the time because who doesn't want free kills?

yregprincess wrote:
The quick scoping thing that irks me is that quite often the kill cam shows the scoper has missed. This is probably something technical why this isn't the case but it feels worse. I didn't aim and I didn't hit but you are still dead.

Yes, but I try to ignore that and hope it's merely an issue with network latency horking up the killcam somehow.

i.e. I stick my head in the sand.

Well said, Swat. However, I get really annoyed with people who go 2-30 with 6 caps. Sure, you won, but in real combat, that's even less viable, unless you happen to be China or India and have an inexhaustible supply of warm bodies to throw at objectives. When I do pursue objectives, I get kills too. When I carry the flag, I get kills while carrying, I don't just blindly rush at my home flag hoping my teammates protect me.

Farscry wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Basically, in the Call of Duty games, when you pull up a scope (any scope), the moment when the scope is first fully zoomed in, the crosshair is still centered where your crosshair was when you first started zooming in, and your shot now has the full accuracy of the scope. The wobble (if there is any) starts at this point.

So to quick-scope, you have a sniper rifle (or other high-zoom scope, even an ACOG will do, but it's particularly exploitive of the mechanics to use a sniper rifle), aim at your target with your regular reticle, then pull up the scope and -- the precise moment when the scope is fully zoomed in and hasn't started to sway -- you fire. Instead of using the poor dispersal that a non-scoped sniper shot would have, the game engine considers you to be fully aimed in (even if no human could possibly have actually lined up the shot at this point) for the purposes of calculating shot dispersal.

This is the opposite of how scopes are intended to work, which is that you point roughly where you want to shoot, fine-tune your aim while scoped in, and then fire.

It turns sniper rifles from long-range weapons that you setup prior to firing into any-range weapons that you snap up and shoot one-shot kills at near-instantaneous speed. The guys who are skilled at quick-scoping typically engage at short-to-medium range, where sniper rifles are not intended to be the best weapon choice.

This is the way i've thought it works too, yet there's a good .5-2 second delay from when you hit your button to ADS(or activate scope if you prefer) and getting your reticule up to that dead spot. That's a very long time in a fire fight especially against someone hip firing. The replays and videos i've seen almost makes it seem instant and that there's almost no delay from activating the scope and firing. I've not been able to replicate this at all.

ranalin wrote:
Farscry wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Basically, in the Call of Duty games, when you pull up a scope (any scope), the moment when the scope is first fully zoomed in, the crosshair is still centered where your crosshair was when you first started zooming in, and your shot now has the full accuracy of the scope. The wobble (if there is any) starts at this point.

So to quick-scope, you have a sniper rifle (or other high-zoom scope, even an ACOG will do, but it's particularly exploitive of the mechanics to use a sniper rifle), aim at your target with your regular reticle, then pull up the scope and -- the precise moment when the scope is fully zoomed in and hasn't started to sway -- you fire. Instead of using the poor dispersal that a non-scoped sniper shot would have, the game engine considers you to be fully aimed in (even if no human could possibly have actually lined up the shot at this point) for the purposes of calculating shot dispersal.

This is the opposite of how scopes are intended to work, which is that you point roughly where you want to shoot, fine-tune your aim while scoped in, and then fire.

It turns sniper rifles from long-range weapons that you setup prior to firing into any-range weapons that you snap up and shoot one-shot kills at near-instantaneous speed. The guys who are skilled at quick-scoping typically engage at short-to-medium range, where sniper rifles are not intended to be the best weapon choice.

This is the way i've thought it works too, yet there's a good .5-2 second delay from when you hit your button to ADS(or activate scope if you prefer) and getting your reticule up to that dead spot. That's a very long time in a fire fight especially against someone hip firing. The replays and videos i've seen almost makes it seem instant and that there's almost no delay from activating the scope and firing. I've not been able to replicate this at all.

Pretty sure that's part of the trick of it. If you score a hit, it actually happens faster than the graphics are programmed to display, so the replay shows what's actually happening.

Dakuna wrote:
Well said, Swat. However, I get really annoyed with people who go 2-30 with 6 caps. Sure, you won, but in real combat, that's even less viable, unless you happen to be China or India and have an inexhaustible supply of warm bodies to throw at objectives. When I do pursue objectives, I get kills too. When I carry the flag, I get kills while carrying, I don't just blindly rush at my home flag hoping my teammates protect me.

It all depends on the team balance. Sometimes, you are so overwhelmed by the other team, no matter how hard you try - even with smoke and other neat little gadgets, you are demolished 1 second away from capturing a point. Many times, you are the only one at the objective.

What are your options for being on the weaker side, with not much support in capturing objectives? You can either:

a) Keep trying, and dying, despite killing people around said objectives and playing well, you will not win because you are at a disadvantage. No matter how good you are, you are not a one man army, and you will lose. No matter how many enemies you take out before the rush, and after while prone, that next grenade has your name on it.
b) Flush out the oppressing force, scramble them up a bit, and effectively get locked into a game of team deathmatch, because no one else is capturing objectives. Then get accused of playing team deathmatch and not capturing objectives. But your KDR is nice and toasty.

On the other hand, being on the good side of the team is a breeze. Easy captures, you aren't alone, and you also have people flanking the opposing force giving you a LOT of breathing room capturing said objectives. It's a lovely feeling. You feel powerful. Your skill level hasn't changed, but it seems that way because of that extra little bit of magic that your super-team has bestowed on you

Now what would be really awesome is if bodies stacked near objectives. That way, you could be like China or India and send half the population in for a very nice human barricade. I'm going to suggest that for MW4. Perk: Body Stacker!

ranalin wrote:
Farscry wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Can someone break down how someone 'quick-scopes'?

Basically, in the Call of Duty games, when you pull up a scope (any scope), the moment when the scope is first fully zoomed in, the crosshair is still centered where your crosshair was when you first started zooming in, and your shot now has the full accuracy of the scope. The wobble (if there is any) starts at this point.

So to quick-scope, you have a sniper rifle (or other high-zoom scope, even an ACOG will do, but it's particularly exploitive of the mechanics to use a sniper rifle), aim at your target with your regular reticle, then pull up the scope and -- the precise moment when the scope is fully zoomed in and hasn't started to sway -- you fire. Instead of using the poor dispersal that a non-scoped sniper shot would have, the game engine considers you to be fully aimed in (even if no human could possibly have actually lined up the shot at this point) for the purposes of calculating shot dispersal.

This is the opposite of how scopes are intended to work, which is that you point roughly where you want to shoot, fine-tune your aim while scoped in, and then fire.

It turns sniper rifles from long-range weapons that you setup prior to firing into any-range weapons that you snap up and shoot one-shot kills at near-instantaneous speed. The guys who are skilled at quick-scoping typically engage at short-to-medium range, where sniper rifles are not intended to be the best weapon choice.

This is the way i've thought it works too, yet there's a good .5-2 second delay from when you hit your button to ADS(or activate scope if you prefer) and getting your reticule up to that dead spot. That's a very long time in a fire fight especially against someone hip firing. The replays and videos i've seen almost makes it seem instant and that there's almost no delay from activating the scope and firing. I've not been able to replicate this at all.

In hardcore there is no non-scoped reticle so I'm willing to bet that people put a dot on their screen. I know people used to do that in Counter-Strike. Also when I watch the replay cam most of the time the scope isn't even fully up by the time they fire. Its about 90% of the way up yet it still registers as a dead on hit. It may be because of the janky replay cam or its possible you get 100% scoped accuracy prior to looking through the crosshairs. A simple solution is have split-second focus delay after the crosshairs come up and in that time the gun still registers with the hip fire accuracy.

Yeah, obviously the devs like quick scoping and leave it in cause they're a bunch of jerks who enjoy it. No other explanation as far as I can see.

I think the quick scopers might also be using the perk and/or attachment that makes the transition into ADS faster. I'm not sure though, never cared to really read up on exactly how to do it.

Dakuna wrote:
Yeah, obviously the devs like quick scoping and leave it in cause they're a bunch of jerks who enjoy it. No other explanation as far as I can see.

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

Farscry wrote:
I think the quick scopers might also be using the perk and/or attachment that makes the transition into ADS faster. I'm not sure though, never cared to really read up on exactly how to do it.

Dakuna wrote:
Yeah, obviously the devs like quick scoping and leave it in cause they're a bunch of jerks who enjoy it. No other explanation as far as I can see.

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

No sarcasm, I hate quick-scopers.

Dakuna wrote:
Farscry wrote:
I think the quick scopers might also be using the perk and/or attachment that makes the transition into ADS faster. I'm not sure though, never cared to really read up on exactly how to do it.

Dakuna wrote:
Yeah, obviously the devs like quick scoping and leave it in cause they're a bunch of jerks who enjoy it. No other explanation as far as I can see.

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

No sarcasm, I hate quick-scopers.


The other thing they seem to enjoy is lunging through a shotgun blast with a knife. You should not be invincible during a knifing lunge.

The other knife related one that bugs me is that you can use it at any time. The other night I was knifed by a guy in mid reload. Meaning he had a gun in one hand and the mag in the other in the animation but, half way through "boop" knife to my solar plexus for the kill.

Dakuna wrote:
Farscry wrote:
I think the quick scopers might also be using the perk and/or attachment that makes the transition into ADS faster. I'm not sure though, never cared to really read up on exactly how to do it.

Dakuna wrote:
Yeah, obviously the devs like quick scoping and leave it in cause they're a bunch of jerks who enjoy it. No other explanation as far as I can see.

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

No sarcasm, I hate quick-scopers.

The devs consider it a valid tactic. I just cant get the mechanics down. If i could do it i would, but i do quite well without so dont worry too much about it.

Dakuna wrote:
Well said, Swat. However, I get really annoyed with people who go 2-30 with 6 caps. Sure, you won, but in real combat, that's even less viable, unless you happen to be China or India and have an inexhaustible supply of warm bodies to throw at objectives. When I do pursue objectives, I get kills too. When I carry the flag, I get kills while carrying, I don't just blindly rush at my home flag hoping my teammates protect me.

You shouldn't blindly rush any where with the flag, but you should rush straight back to base. Nothing worse than losing the flag (or worse the game due to time) because the carrier goes for an unneeded kill.

Also this is CoD... nothing close to real combat. It's more like paintball and airsoft. I'd much rather have the guy on my team that can do 6 caps and only 2 kills than a guy who's 30-2 and does his own thing.

ranalin wrote:
I'd much rather have the guy on my team that can do 6 caps and only 2 kills than a guy who's 30-2 and does his own thing.

My conclusion after playing this a bit is that you need both those guys. I can't ever be the 30-2 man so I'd like to have him in my team so I can can get six caps. As annoying as people ignoring the objectives and going for kills are they do make winning the game a hell of a lot easier for the rest of his team.

I played demolition last night and managed to win a couple of games then the boat happened. I have never been so overwhelmed in my hundreds of hours of Cod. Their team had hundreds of kills with their top guy on 95-23 with a SPM of 585 and he dropped out before the end. Spawn trapped the whole game. I died 5 or 6 times in a row instantly on spawn being killed by the same person. Later we were spawning at the pool end of the boat but they had tac inserts behind us and we were getting killed before we could turn around. 3 sentry guns and a guardian around our spawn at one point. Two warthogs. It was so bad it was funny. They deliberately didn't win the second round to drag it out to extra time and the game was a draw. I cannot fathom how teams can do this.

yregprincess wrote:
ranalin wrote:
I'd much rather have the guy on my team that can do 6 caps and only 2 kills than a guy who's 30-2 and does his own thing.

My conclusion after playing this a bit is that you need both those guys. I can't ever be the 30-2 man so I'd like to have him in my team so I can can get six caps. As annoying as people ignoring the objectives and going for kills are they do make winning the game a hell of a lot easier for the rest of his team.

Yup. Had two games last night where I was the guy with lots of objective completions (Hardpoint in one match, Domination in another) and low kills / high deaths - heck in Domination I was the only one who seemed capable of capping anything other than our "home" flag - and I never could've done it without the 30-2 guy on my team who focused on flanking the enemy and keeping them off my back as much as possible. So yeah, he was racking up kills and scoring no objective points directly, but he was indirectly responsible for supporting me in bringing our team to victory.

I have no idea what the rest of my team was doing half the time.

The Hardpoint match was especially delicious because my team was just a bunch of random pubbies, and the opposing team was a clan team. In a League match.

Hey Guys, I peek in here from time to time. Curious if anyone is playing on PS3. I play when I can, but between wife and work its mostly on the weekends. Anyone else out there playing pS3?