NFL 2011-2012 Off-Season Pre-Draft Catch-All

Yeah, this figures to be like Watergate, in that the initial crime was bad, but any potential cover-up is where the real penalties come in.

Also, TEBOW TO THE JETS TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW.

My Jet fan friends are crying right now.

Enix wrote:

Edit: Tannerhaused! (Do I have that right? Someone needs to point me to the origin of that. If it's what I think it is, I had the same designation at another website.)

This is the correct usage, but the wrong spelling. Our origin story has to do with forum user Tannhauser being repeatedly beaten to the punch by seconds on a number of consecutive TF2 announcements.
The correct spelling is "Tannhauser'd".

J-E-T-S, JETS JETS JETS!

Phishposer wrote:
Enix wrote:

Edit: Tannerhaused! (Do I have that right? Someone needs to point me to the origin of that. If it's what I think it is, I had the same designation at another website.)

This is the correct usage, but the wrong spelling. Our origin story has to do with forum user Tannhauser being repeatedly beaten to the punch by seconds on a number of consecutive TF2 announcements.
The correct spelling is "Tannhauser'd".

Thanks, Phish. At an old forum long ago we used the term "Mucked!" That's a long story for another day.

Anyhoo, here's the damage to the Saints:

* Head coach Sean Payton suspended for the 2012 season

* Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is banned from the league indefinitely

* Saints general manager Mickey Loomis suspended for the first eight regular-season games of 2012

* Assistant coach Joe Vitt has to sit out the first six games

* Saints fined $500,000

* Saints lose second-round draft picks in 2012 and 2013

Yeah. Ouch.

Enix wrote:

* Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is banned from the league indefinitely

Do any CFL, college or even high school teams touch this guy? Or is it career-change time?

I'm sure some colleges would love to have him. Assuming they aren't just going with the "we'll say indefinite to sound tough and let him back in in 18 months".

I am surprised at the length of the penalties. I expected Payton to get a few games, not a whole season. I expected Williams to probably get a whole season but not indefinite. I didn't expect the GM to be involved at all, I have never heard of a GM getting suspended games before, doesn't that just seem weird? Maybe his salary is based on game checks, like players are, so this is essentially a big fine?

Stele wrote:

J-E-T-S, JETS JETS JETS! :lol:

Wait, you're serious?!

* runs off to check the web *

Oh. My. Tebow. God. The Jets are going to be the most entertaining team in all of sports, perhaps ever.

And Denver gets a 4th round pick from the Jets for Tebow. That seems like a decent trade for Denver, much more than many people thought they would get. I guess he will be the new Brad Smith for the Jets, but it is funny, can you think of a less christian locker room?

Statement from the league.

Third paragraph explains why the penalties look so rough:

The NFL’s extensive investigation established the existence of an active bounty program on the Saints during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons in violation of league rules, a deliberate effort to conceal the program’s existence from league investigators, and a clear determination to maintain the program despite express direction from Saints ownership that it stop as well as ongoing inquiries from the league office.

In this case, it was the lies and the cover-up.

LOL oh man. Tebow with Rex Ryan. As a Giant fan I didn't think things could get better after winning a Super Bowl we weren't supposed to win but now Tebow to Jets? Wooo!

If anything, this will be Tebow's biggest test of faith. The media is going to eat him up. One thing about the tri-state area, we're very secular. Overzealous displays of religion are frowned upon. As the old saying goes, we regard religion like a penis: fine to have one, fine to be proud of it, but don't whip it out in public and start waving it around...and definitely don't shove it down other peoples' throats.

So with no GM, Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and Assistant Coach who runs the show for the Saints?

Has there ever been a more entertaining five minutes during an offseason than the double-whammy of "Saints utterly crushed" and "Tebow to Jets"?

Vector wrote:

So with no GM, Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and Assistant Coach who runs the show for the Saints?

They have an DC as Gregg Williams is with the Rams now.

garion333 wrote:
Vector wrote:

So with no GM, Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and Assistant Coach who runs the show for the Saints?

They have an DC as Gregg Williams is with the Rams now.

Okay. So would the current DC and OC run everything? Is Payton and Co. banned from everything or are they allowed to participate in practices or pre-season training?

garion333 wrote:

What the heck is going on in Houston? They keep making moves I don't entirely understand.

There's a lack of understanding here as well. The optimistic interpretation is that they are trying to get younger and clear cap space/payroll. And in the case of Ryans, that he isn't as effective in Wade Phillips' 3-4 as he is in a 4-3.

One of the morning radio guys here was saying today that after having our best year ever, we should be trying to hold on to all our starters and "going for it" in 2012. That makes a degree of sense to me. Then again, what the Texans are doing is kind of what you do in the NFL to manage the salary cap and stay young. Should you do it every year, though? Should they be doing it right now? What's the endgame? The Texans have acquired zero players this off-season. They've retained a couple key guys and lost what, four starters now?

At least they traded Ryans and got something for him, instead of straight up releasing him and getting nothing.

Lastly, every time one of these moves is announced, Twitter explodes with "And Jacoby Jones is STILL on the team!"

FSeven wrote:

LOL oh man. Tebow with Rex Ryan. As a Giant fan I didn't think things could get better after winning a Super Bowl we weren't supposed to win but now Tebow to Jets? Wooo!

If anything, this will be Tebow's biggest test of faith. The media is going to eat him up. One thing about the tri-state area, we're very secular. Overzealous displays of religion are frowned upon. As the old saying goes, we regard religion like a penis: fine to have one, fine to be proud of it, but don't whip it out in public and start waving it around...and definitely don't shove it down other peoples' throats.

Tebow never shoved t down people's throats. The culture warrior pundits did.

My thoughts:

* First, hooray for sanity in Jacksonville. Hopefully, the rumors were just flat-out false and there was no feuding between ownership and player personnel.

* Denver did extremely well for themselves to get a 4th round pick. I figured the ceiling would have been a 5th round pick, with eventual release being more likely. A 4th is pretty impressive.

* Tebow in Rex Ryan's house, yeah, that will be fun. Given that the fanbase is not exactly fully behind Mark Sanchez, I bet we can expect some more billboard nonsense like in Denver.

* I'm glad that the Saints punishment came largely in suspensions of coaches and the GM. To me, this was an off-field conduct issue, and I'm glad that some of the wacky punishments being floated around like vacating wins or even their title remained the stuff of gossip. The only bit I would consider fair game for questioning is the forfeiture of two 2nd round picks.

I have no problem with the suspensions to Payton or Williams. I have no insight into why the GM was suspended as well. And Legion, I kind of agree with your take on the 2nd round picks, but we don't really know as much as the league knows. The owners are credited in the NFL's statement as having tried to stop the bounties, so penalizing the team directly doesn't make as much sense as the suspensions.

I'm guessing the league is maybe saying that they didn't do enough to stop it, or they're just trying to send a very onerous message to everyone. Possibly both.

LeapingGnome wrote:

And Denver gets a 4th round pick from the Jets for Tebow. That seems like a decent trade for Denver, much more than many people thought they would get. I guess he will be the new Brad Smith for the Jets, but it is funny, can you think of a less christian locker room?

No, but I would have liked to see hundreds of cosplay Raiders fans Tebowing in the stands

Enix wrote:

Naanee isn't awful. In fact, he could probably start for most teams.

In Jacksonville right now, that's not a hard bar to reach.

He's not a number No. by any stretch, but he's tall-ish, can catch (mostly) and blocks well. MJD would probably like him OK as a downfield blocker.

Most of what I've seen from Naanee has been when he was in a Charger uniform, and a Boise State pain-in-my-Fresno-ass before that. But this assessment jives with what I've seen.

His catch rate increased this last season as well, coming just shy of 60%. 60% would make you a star in Jacksonville. Last year, Mike Thomas was at 51%. Jason Hill? 47.2%. (Jarrett Dillard topped the team at 63%, which is why you got to see me in these threads last year excited about the performance of this #3 WR).

I would be OK with signing Naanee, him stepping in to the #2 spot opposite Laurent Robinson, and then adding a drafted rookie with clear starter potential, if not necessarily in year 1.

Tebow a Jet?

I'm not sure I can stomach watching that.

Guess I'll spend the year rooting for my ineffectual NFC team — the Seahawks.

*Legion* wrote:

His catch rate increased this last season as well, coming just shy of 60%. 60% would make you a star in Jacksonville. Last year, Mike Thomas was at 51%. Jason Hill? 47.2%. (Jarrett Dillard topped the team at 63%, which is why you got to see me in these threads last year excited about the performance of this #3 WR).

Where do you get your numbers from? I'm not criticizing, I want to take a look at other teams.

garion333 wrote:

Where do you get your numbers from? I'm not criticizing, I want to take a look at other teams.

Pro Football Focus's premium stats.

I have some issues with the subjective part of their stats - their game-by-game "grading" of players - but the quantifiable things, secondary stats like sacks yielded, catch rate, etc., all tend to be very good.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I have no problem with the suspensions to Payton or Williams. I have no insight into why the GM was suspended as well. And Legion, I kind of agree with your take on the 2nd round picks, but we don't really know as much as the league knows. The owners are credited in the NFL's statement as having tried to stop the bounties, so penalizing the team directly doesn't make as much sense as the suspensions.

I think heaping the draft picks into the punishment was part of Goodell's shock-and-awe. It's clear that he intended the Saints to be made an example for the rest of the league - he's pretty much said as much in his own words.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I have no problem with the suspensions to Payton or Williams. I have no insight into why the GM was suspended as well. And Legion, I kind of agree with your take on the 2nd round picks, but we don't really know as much as the league knows. The owners are credited in the NFL's statement as having tried to stop the bounties, so penalizing the team directly doesn't make as much sense as the suspensions.

I'm guessing the league is maybe saying that they didn't do enough to stop it, or they're just trying to send a very onerous message to everyone. Possibly both.

Actually, they pretty much laid it all out in 15-point detail.

Here's the answer to the bolded section.

13. General Manager Mickey Loomis was not present at meetings of the Saints defense at which bounties were discussed and was not aware of bounties being placed on specific players. Mr. Loomis became aware of the allegations regarding a bounty program no later than February 2010 when he was notified of the investigation into the allegations during a meeting with NFL Executive Vice President-Football Operations Ray Anderson. He was directed to ensure that any such program ceased immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis did not do enough to determine if a pay-for-performance/bounty program existed or to end any such program that did exist.

14. Saints owner Tom Benson notified Mr. Loomis in January 2012 prior to the team’s participation in the playoffs that the league’s investigation had been reopened. Mr. Benson reiterated his position that a bounty program was unacceptable and instructed Mr. Loomis to ensure that if a bounty program existed at the Saints it would stop immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis responded to this direction by making only cursory inquiries of Coaches Payton and Williams. He never issued instructions to end the bounty program to either the coaching staff or the players.

*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

I have no problem with the suspensions to Payton or Williams. I have no insight into why the GM was suspended as well. And Legion, I kind of agree with your take on the 2nd round picks, but we don't really know as much as the league knows. The owners are credited in the NFL's statement as having tried to stop the bounties, so penalizing the team directly doesn't make as much sense as the suspensions.

I think heaping the draft picks into the punishment was part of Goodell's shock-and-awe. It's clear that he intended the Saints to be made an example for the rest of the league - he's pretty much said as much in his own words.

I think losing those picks is pretty clearly the worst part of the punishment, and I think it's incredibly severe. It feels very in-character for Goodell's vision for the league though.

Phishposer wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

I have no problem with the suspensions to Payton or Williams. I have no insight into why the GM was suspended as well. And Legion, I kind of agree with your take on the 2nd round picks, but we don't really know as much as the league knows. The owners are credited in the NFL's statement as having tried to stop the bounties, so penalizing the team directly doesn't make as much sense as the suspensions.

I think heaping the draft picks into the punishment was part of Goodell's shock-and-awe. It's clear that he intended the Saints to be made an example for the rest of the league - he's pretty much said as much in his own words.

I think losing those picks is pretty clearly the worst part of the punishment, and I think it's incredibly severe. It feels very in-character for Goodell's vision for the league though.

Depends on how important you think Payton is; he's clearly a brilliant offensive mind, and I don't care how involved his offensive staff has been. Payton's the brains behind that offense, and it's really going to hurt them. Add to that you have an unsigned Drew Brees, and this is a major issue.

To Goodell's credit, the statement from the NFL is very detailed, and it doesn't "feel" like an arbitrary penalty. It spells out pretty darn clearly that the severity of the penalty is related to the fact that the Saints ignored direction from the league and the team ownership itself, and then tried to coverup the wrongdoing. Somewhere, Richard Nixon's ghost is cringing and saying, "Trust me, I know how you feel."

Tebow in NYC, playing in front of Jets fans? I think the only way to script a more hilarious scenario would be if maybe Philly got him. This is going to be FUN.

Conversation:

Jets' GM: "yeah, we're thinking maybe a 4th rounder for Tebow, what do you s.."

Elway: (interrupting): "SOLD!!"

Elway (thinking): LOL

Jeff-66 wrote:

Conversation:

Jets' GM: "yeah, we're thinking maybe a 4th rounder for Tebow, what do you s.."

Elway: (interrupting): "SOLD!!"

Elway (thinking): LOL

I LOL'd too. I really wish I knew what was going on in Mike Tannenbaum's head. I don't perceive him to be a clueless guy - certainly not a Jeff Ireland - so I'm confused as to the motivation, especially at that price.