Trial of Anders Behring Breivik

Axon wrote:

I know Seth has responded but I just wanted to clarify a couple of points.

I'm not surprised that violent nationalists exists. I didn't suggest that they were more likely in the US (Nobody did, just that they exist everywhere). And I even stated that we still have them my own country (therefore my lack of surprise) this very day so I'm not sure where the WWII cut-off point comes from.

If you are saying we don't learn from history, as Seth suggests, I'm not sure so that explains it. The effect of violent ideologies are a constant reminder in every country of Europe so I'm not sure people can claim ignorance either. In fact, they are doing the opposite. They are using historical "truths" to back up their claims.

I think Shadout is on to something...

I was responding to Paleocon's comment "I almost understand how Americans can be neo-nazis.[...] But Europeans actually lived through that." And my reaction is yes, they lived through a war, but they also created the circumstances for two world wars, and even after that a cold war, and coups, etc.. So there seems to have been something about Europe that brought about extremists. Stalin didn't look at Hitler and realize that the right path was more human rights. Maybe surprised wasn't an accurate characterization, but I think it is harder to understand how Americans can be neo-nazi's. There is very little for white people in the US to complain about.

MrShoop wrote:

There is very little for white people in the US to complain about.

Someone forgot to tell the "modern" Republicans that. Or actually I guess it proves your point when you consider the things they do complain about.

Regarding Breivik, he apparently compared himself to his victims yesterday. His "logic": "I took their families from them, just like I lost my own family and friends because of what I did. The only difference between us is that I did it by choice, while my victims had no choice" (and this is some serious paraphrasing in case that was not clear).

It must be seriously hard for some of the families to the victims who keep showing up at the court. I don't think I could handle that.

That's interesting and it might add something else to our discussion. Is there some attraction to seeing yourself as the victim? This goes to your point, Shadout, about how we Europeans sidelined violent nationalists or just nationalists. Putting yourself in the role of the victim is perhaps a role that some people seek out?

Axon wrote:

That's interesting and it might add something else to our discussion. Is there some attraction to seeing yourself as the victim? This goes to your point, Shadout, about how we Europeans sidelined violent nationalists or just nationalists. Putting yourself in the role of the victim is perhaps a role that some people seek out?

Well, duh.

Just look at the way Christians in the US get all high on pretending they're a persecuted minority.

The general idea is that if you're victimized and persecuted, then it must mean you're different from and more righteous than everyone else around you, instead of say, a narcissistic, overpriviledged (and in Breivik's case, sociopathic) nincompoop.

Oh here we go...

Anders Breivik, the right-wing extremist who has confessed to killing 77 people during a murder spree in Norway last summer, played the violent computer game World of Warcraft nearly seven hours a day for several consecutive months before his attack, prosecutors say.

World of Warcraft is a notorious murder simulator.

13 11 million murderers can't be wrong. Oh wait...

WoW is a "violent" game? Maybe in the same way a Looney Tunes cartoon is violent. I guess I really have been desensitized. Either that or the people that decided to classify WoW as violent are members of some Australian rating board.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Oh here we go...

Anders Breivik, the right-wing extremist who has confessed to killing 77 people during a murder spree in Norway last summer, played the violent computer game World of Warcraft nearly seven hours a day for several consecutive months before his attack, prosecutors say.

Yeah, this info came out almost right away. We even talked about it some at the start of the first page.

If he'd really been inspired by WoW, he'd have come back the next day to do it all again.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Oh here we go...

Anders Breivik, the right-wing extremist who has confessed to killing 77 people during a murder spree in Norway last summer, played the violent computer game World of Warcraft nearly seven hours a day for several consecutive months before his attack, prosecutors say.

Yeah, this info came out almost right away. We even talked about it some at the start of the first page.

I think the news is that the prosecution is now offering this as evidence of... something. Maybe it's actually a trial against video games?

It's pretty messed up that I'm agreeing with Breivik, but he's probably right when he says "it is not relevant to this case whatsoever."