Doctor Who *Spoilers Abound! We've lost Containment*

Yeah, that episode was pretty good! Aside from the surface level story, there were a few digs at "normal people listening to angry voices on the radio" and such which felt like a subtle dig at Brexit and the like.

Baron Of Hell wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I've only managed to watch up through "Arachnids in the UK" so far. I might be missing some of the nuances by virtue of not being in the UK, but this season sure has a lot to say about American politics but doesn't seem to want to go anywhere near Brexit, that particularly English train wreck of ignorance and racism.

I think the demon episode will be pleasant surprise, it was for me at least.

Agreed, loved it. I've enjoyed every episode this season so far.

Right up there with "Rosa" as the best of this season, in my book.

Rat Boy wrote:

Right up there with "Rosa" as the best of this season, in my book.

Both historical episodes and more tellingly, both not written by Chibnell. It was the best episode by far of the series. Just this week I watched a film about looking at your past, even if it is horrible and the partition was one of the worst periods of British history, and there is alot of it. Also it kept hinting at the drought, yeah that was less of a drought and more of a famine caused by Churchill during the war.

I just realised that there was a nicely hidden clue in the opening scene. When Yaz asked her grandmother about her marriage to her grandfather, she said "I was the first woman married in Pakistan" - not "We were the first couple married in Pakistan".

Also worth noting both those episodes are the first time Dr who has had people of colour as ...writers? I think? Like LITERALLY the first time. Ever.

*yup - Marjorie Blackman (rosa) and Vinay Patel (demons)

Exotic Sheffield. LOL. And yeah, Manesh? The little brother definitely gave off a Fox News vibe. I, too, noticed that the best episodes so far were the ones not written by Chibnall.

That episode made me want to replay Tacoma

In the future amazon episode

Spoiler:

The Doctor switches jobs with Graham. However, if she kept the janitor job she would have figured things out sooner. The AI placed her in the best job to figure things out.

Classic style of who episode. I thought it was fun

Got up to Ep 06, and really liking it so far. I did not expect Graham to become one of my favourite characters, but the scene where the guys are being doulas was just so good.

Maybe I missed something, but the underlying message of the Amazon episode made me feel really weird.

Spoiler:

So the outcome is that the System was right and good and just trying to protect everyone, and the dange came from a human who wanted to bring down the system so people would stop getting replace with robots and automation?

I mean, we don't really see what life is like for the people who don't have jobs at future Amazon, so maybe it's a utopia. But the way the people who did have jobs talked about it, it sure sounded like they thought they were the lucky ones. I dunno, the whole thing came off as kind of overly eager to trust that technology is a universal good, and we should just trust it. Tell me that I missed something, because that seems like a really weird place for Who to come down.

The AI that controls the factory has no voice. It doesn't care or at least offered no opinion on whether the current system was ok or not. The automated system is in place because of people And a person decided the best way to fix the system was the mass murder of hundreds or thousands of people. The AI attempts to stop this but no reason is given why. You seem to think it is because it wants things to stay the same. Maybe it just values life.

The only way your argument works is if you consider the murder of hundreds or thousands of people is a valid response to not offering people jobs. I think the show said something along the lines of automation is not the problem how we respond to it is the problem. On a moral prospective mass murder is the wrong response no matter if the current system is ok or broken.

You're right, mass murder is probably a bad response. There might be too much information missing to know whether or not the system itself is good. If millions of people are living in poverty because the system has automated all their jobs out of existence, it's possible that changes the math on how to respond to the system.

I dunno, it just seems really weird that they're pretty clearly channeling Amazon's practices, which are generally not great for the humans currently working in their fulfillment centers, and winding up at "look, the system is fine and good." Maybe it is, and everyone that we don't see is super happy. And yeah, the system is just defending itself. Maybe it is protective of life, though I'd be more inclined to believe it's protective of life only in as much as you need life to sell stuff to. I just wonder at what the conditions are like outside the company that this guy felt like he had to resort to mass murder to change things. Dunno, knowing the reality of Amazon business practices, having the show create a sci-fi Amazon, then come around to "this is pretty much fine" still feels weird.

Don't want Whittaker to leave as she is ace but Chiball I really don't care about. I don't think he is doing a good job, unless something changes towards the end of this series. Out of 7 episodes, 5 have seen humans be the real baddies, the Doctor has been all over the place in regards to morality of killing things.

Spoiler:

Try to kick alien hitman that just tried to kill you, off a crane - BAD MAN
Try to shoot a giant spider - BAD MAN but sure leaving it to sufficate, that's a'ok
Send a time travelling racist all the way back to the start of time - yeah that's cool too
Murder the guy at the end of the last episode - also cool

Radio Free Skaro mentioned this the other day and basically dismissed it out of hand. The BBC waited about three years for Chibnall, plus the ratings this year are consistently top ten for the week on the BBC.

The ratings for the show are also the highest they've been since Tennant was on. I'd be surprised if anyone wants to leave.

onewild wrote:

Don't want Whittaker to leave as she is ace but Chiball I really don't care about. I don't think he is doing a good job, unless something changes towards the end of this series. Out of 7 episodes, 5 have seen humans be the real baddies, the Doctor has been all over the place in regards to morality of killing things.

Spoiler:

Try to kick alien hitman that just tried to kill you, off a crane - BAD MAN
Try to shoot a giant spider - BAD MAN but sure leaving it to sufficate, that's a'ok
Send a time travelling racist all the way back to the start of time - yeah that's cool too
Murder the guy at the end of the last episode - also cool

I oddly have no problem with any of those things.

onewild wrote:

Don't want Whittaker to leave as she is ace but Chiball I really don't care about. I don't think he is doing a good job, unless something changes towards the end of this series. Out of 7 episodes, 5 have seen humans be the real baddies, the Doctor has been all over the place in regards to morality of killing things.

Spoiler:

Try to kick alien hitman that just tried to kill you, off a crane - BAD MAN
Try to shoot a giant spider - BAD MAN but sure leaving it to sufficate, that's a'ok
Send a time travelling racist all the way back to the start of time - yeah that's cool too
Murder the guy at the end of the last episode - also cool

I'm pretty sure that last one was suicide.

He had an out, he didn't take it. No court in the land would convict!

She didn't have to order them to trigger the bombs, especially since she knew where he was.

Time was a factor. They were already scheduled to "deliver", it was the delivery address that was changed.

She changed the address and then explicitly told them to trigger the bombs which wasn't something that had to be done.

liquid wrote:

She changed the address and then explicitly told them to trigger the bombs which wasn't something that had to be done.

Are you sure she was able to change their programming to trigger the bombs. My impression was she just instructed the change of address which would cause them to trigger the bombs there instead of killing a lot of people.

She specifically told the robots to open the packages and pop the bubbles to get rid of the explosive. The show kind of made it seem like a urgent matter but there was no reason why the bombs couldn't have been set off hours, days, or months later. Still I wouldn't call it murder.

I think its still murder. But at the very least it can be considered a reckless endangerment and manslaughter. Detonating so many bombs at once in a confined space that seemed to be below a larger building where lots of people presumably reside and work in is just a bad idea. There was 0 need to detonate the bombs and if there was it could have been done in the vacuum of space or change the delivery in a star like the Sun or something.

I really don't like this season so far, it's very heavy-handed in its delivery and the doctor seems clueless most of the time, she's there for the ride just as much as the companions are, which is something I feared might happen with the number of main characters they settled on. It's probably worse than I imagined it may be because I was sure they would flesh out the doctor but will struggle for time to properly do the same for all the companions, instead they seem to have divided the screentime somewhat equally between all 4 and the result, for me at least, is a full cast I couldn't care less for. And that's ignoring the stories they've decided to do.

I'll wait for the whole season and the Christmas special to air before I continue and binge the whole thing as the single episode weekly installment isn't doing the show any favours and hopefully, things will feel a lot better and smoother when watched this way.

That's true - blowing up the foundations of the building is probably a bad idea (Although given that the explosives don't destroy their ankle bracelets or the side room where the worker was taken, I just assumed these were more of "doesn't damage infrastructure" type of explosives).

I do get what you mean about the Doctor feeling clueless though. I DO like the fact that she's no longer completely omnipresent and completely in charge of every situation she gets in, but i do worry they've maybe pushed a little TOO far in the opposite direction. Hopefully, that'll correct itself over time though.

So everyone's going to debate the morality of killing the bad guy in the episode, but gloss over the fact that a sweet, innocent woman was killed and the only reaction from the Doctor seemed to be "Well, wasn't that clever of the AI?"

Right, I forgot about that. I was surprised to see her reaction when I was watching but that quickly went out of my head as I was more baffled by her deliberate actions.

Tscott wrote:

So everyone's going to debate the morality of killing the bad guy in the episode, but gloss over the fact that a sweet, innocent woman was killed and the only reaction from the Doctor seemed to be "Well, wasn't that clever of the AI?"

That was our biggest problem with the episode. Make a likeable female character only so she can be killed in order to try to affect the villain. The lack of reaction from the Doctor also seemed really odd. At the time I took it as "The needs of the many..." Yadda yadda, as her actions DID save thousands of lives, but still, really weird.

I feel like I'm watching these now more for Graham than anything else.