Doctor Who *Spoilers Abound! We've lost Containment*

Timelady Doctress Who?

Hope both the new actor and new showrunner can revitalize the series a bit. There wasn't anything in particular wrong with Capaldi, but haven't really enjoyed Doctor Who for a while.

I'm extremely upset at this news myself. Don't call me sexist, but Doctor Who was never meant to be a woman.

I will now be boycotting the show.

This boycott is proactive, as I have not watched an episode of Doctor Who since the 2005 pilot.

Say what you want about kuddles beliefs. At least he's got foresight.

Paleocon wrote:

Cue the outraged misogynerds in 3, 2, 1......

Cue the outraged Guardian and Huffpo articles blaming every criticism of the upcoming episodes to mysoginy and sexism in 3, 2, 1...

liquid wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Cue the outraged misogynerds in 3, 2, 1......

Cue the outraged Guardian and Huffpo articles blaming every criticism of the upcoming episodes to mysoginy and sexism in 3, 2, 1... :)

Cue the blatantly misogynistic and sexist criticisms of the show followed by who-me eyelash fluttering and insistence that they're just being "rational" and "objective".

kuddles wrote:

I'm extremely upset at this news myself. Don't call me sexist, but Doctor Who was never meant to be a woman.

I will now be boycotting the show.

This boycott is proactive, as I have not watched an episode of Doctor Who since the 2005 pilot.

This is sarcasm, right? You've been checking in on the thread of a show you haven't watched for 12 years just to say you still aren't watching it? If not sarcasm, then...

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/joe1cfL.gif)

That must be a helluva burden to bear.

I also wonder if the world would just implode if the new doctor was not only a woman, but also person of color? Hoo boy.

So apparently the UK tabloids apparently started publishing nude photos of Jodie Whitaker. In the interest of gender equality, they should do the same for all the people who portrayed the Doctor. Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy, you're up.

Photos from her previous roles I assume? Saying it like that makes it seem as if they are publishing leaked private photos or something.
There should be a universal law passed that all tabloids should be printed on toilet paper so there is some actual use for them at least.

Rat Boy wrote:

So apparently the UK tabloids apparently started publishing nude photos of Jodie Whitaker. In the interest of gender equality, they should do the same for all the people who portrayed the Doctor. Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy, you're up.

Actually there was a Facebook article that did just thAt. I'll have to see if I can find it again. Most of the doctors have done some sort of half naked risqué role in their pre doctor lives

I've seen precisely zero people upset about this; all I've seen is them saying that others are upset. It's sort of.... third-hand controversy, from my perspective.

The new Doctor seems fine to me, but what's really kinda perked my ears up is Moffat leaving. I burned out on him hard after the Ponds... got six or seven episodes into the Clara era and abandoned the show, halfway through an episode that was very, very stupid. I didn't like his plotting, I didn't like how he treated women, and I just didn't want anything more to do with it.

So, yeah, even if I didn't like the new Doctor, I'd be interested with a new main writer. But, fortunately, she seems acceptable, not obviously worse than any of the other choices have been.

Malor wrote:

I've seen precisely zero people upset about this; all I've seen is them saying that others are upset. It's sort of.... third-hand controversy, from my perspective.

The new Doctor seems fine to me, but what's really kinda perked my ears up is Moffat leaving. I burned out on him hard after the Ponds... got six or seven episodes into the Clara era and abandoned the show, halfway through an episode that was very, very stupid. I didn't like his plotting, I didn't like how he treated women, and I just didn't want anything more to do with it.

So, yeah, even if I didn't like the new Doctor, I'd be interested with a new main writer. But, fortunately, she seems acceptable, not obviously worse than any of the other choices have been.

If you look at any social media post announcement from BBC or Doctor Who you can read the comment sections and see the upset people pretty easily. You must not have looked.

Malor wrote:

I've seen precisely zero people upset about this; all I've seen is them saying that others are upset. It's sort of.... third-hand controversy, from my perspective.

As someone who has a relative who runs a Doctor Who fanclub, I got tons of "Doctor Who is a Man! Not my Doctor!!" messages on my Facebook all yesterday which is actually how I learned the news.

Well, all I'm saying is that, in the places I hang out, it's been universal support. I haven't seen anyone say that it was a bad idea. (Well, except your comment upthread, but I assume that was a joke, since you also said you don't watch Who.)

Awhile back, there was a medium-sized controversy over casting Idris Elba as Heimdall in the Marvel movies, and it occurred to me then: these are fictional characters. They're not real, and there's no reason not to let everyone have a turn trying new interpretations. That's kind of stuck with me, since; it doesn't matter who the actor is in a given role, as long as they're good. And I see no reason to believe she wouldn't be a perfectly fine Who.

Hell, Doctor Who isn't even human. I've always used the male pronoun for "him", though, so that's likely to color my thinking some. I'm not sure I'll ever really think of Who as being female, no matter how many female actresses I happen to see in the role. I think it'll always be a temporary alteration of the "underlying truth", even though that's completely dumb. Just because it's my brain doesn't mean I'm really in charge around here.

Malor wrote:

Well, all I'm saying is that, in the places I hang out, it's been universal support. I haven't seen anyone say that it was a bad idea.

Social media is insidious like that. Dissenting opinions become less and less frequent until finally you rarely see anything you disagree with on the web unless you actively seek it out.

I'm starting to wonder if this is just feeding into the partisanship of society.

Valmorian wrote:
Malor wrote:

Well, all I'm saying is that, in the places I hang out, it's been universal support. I haven't seen anyone say that it was a bad idea.

Social media is insidious like that. Dissenting opinions become less and less frequent until finally you rarely see anything you disagree with on the web unless you actively seek it out.

I'm starting to wonder if this is just feeding into the partisanship of society.

20+ years ago physical barriers supported partisanship. Now that they're being blasted away information-wise, people are creating their own comfy nooks in the virtual world as well. Honestly, I think that to differing degrees, people can only withstand so much personal change over a particular amount of time. Maybe everyone should be at work improving themselves, but we also need a rest state and a place to be at rest in it. With that in mind, I'm not surprised.

kuddles wrote:

As someone who has a relative who runs a Doctor Who fanclub, I got tons of "Doctor Who is a Man! Not my Doctor!!" messages on my Facebook all yesterday which is actually how I learned the news.

Somehow the "time-traveling alien who magically regenerates can only be what humans consider male" argument seems a little weak.

OG_slinger wrote:
kuddles wrote:

As someone who has a relative who runs a Doctor Who fanclub, I got tons of "Doctor Who is a Man! Not my Doctor!!" messages on my Facebook all yesterday which is actually how I learned the news.

Somehow the "time-traveling alien who magically regenerates can only be what humans consider male" argument seems a little weak.

Right up there with "OBVIOUSLY the mortal manifestation of the all powerful God is white. How could he NOT be?"

Spoiler:

Yaaaaaay! More Bill!

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/d...

All the doctor who RPG books for $15

Finally watching the latest season on On Demand. The last two episodes are chock full of telegraphing it was going to be a woman for the next doctor. The Doctor mentioned there's no reason he couldn't regenerate as a woman, The Master and Missy talking about their regeneration, and The Master flat out said "What, is the future gonna be all girls?".

Can't wait for December, and there are apparently 2 Christmas specials I've missed.

To churn up from a few pages back now that I've caught up watching:

Seeing Bill and Capaldi's Doctor go was the first time I've ever been happy to see a Doctor and/or companion go. I didn't enjoy Donna too much, but wasn't excited to see her go. Martha was my fave as she was competent from the get-go and just got better. Everyone else seemed to start out with this bewildered I don't know what anything is thing going on. I guess Amy was a mix (I like her with Rory as companions mostly for how crazy the overall story with them gets) as she started out differently having met the Doctor long before being a companion, which flavored their relationship in a way I really enjoyed.

Also, Nardole is my fav secondary companion (or whatever you want to call him).

Like Bonus I do agree I got a lot of we know we're going female Doctor now and trying to tell you moments towards the end. IIRC, I watched just prior to the announcement.

I really enjoy Nardole, too; hopefully he'll stick around so we'll get at least some continuity on the main cast.

In retrospect this season felt a bit preachy to me on current cultural issues, which in some ways seems like a response to Trump and the rise of the far right. I thought Bill's run was overall fine, but given the up-front social commentary this season and the fact that it looks to be Bill's only season, I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

gore wrote:

In retrospect this season felt a bit preachy to me on current cultural issues, which in some ways seems like a response to Trump and the rise of the far right. I thought Bill's run was overall fine, but given the up-front social commentary this season and the fact that it looks to be Bill's only season, I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

Agreed. Definitely got some preachy current issue vibes a few times.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Seeing Bill and Capaldi's Doctor go was the first time I've ever been happy to see a Doctor and/or companion go.

I don't get you.

gore wrote:

I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

Right? Diversity hires are the worst. I'm sick of this stunt casting. I sure as sh*t don't want to see anything like myself on TV, even for one season. Doctor Who is a white man's show.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
gore wrote:

I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

Right? Diversity hires are the worst. I'm sick of this stunt casting. I sure as sh*t don't want to see anything like myself on TV, even for one season. Doctor Who is a white man's show.

Well, maybe you're misunderstanding, or maybe I expressed myself poorly, but just to make sure: I think Bill is a little lazy as a character, since she seemed to be defined by her sexuality (and to a lesser degree skin color) in a season that was leaning heavily on critiquing modern culture.

I'm generally fine with this kind of moralizing from Who, it often has some kind of lesson to teach and the companions are often its vehicles. Given its wide audience age range it's not going to always be subtle.

What I'm disappointed in is the fact that Bill is leaving the show abruptly after swooping in to deliver the message, and that means we're not going to get to know her in any other capacity. It makes her seem a bit like a token.

Are you sure you're not projecting a little on the show? Admittedly, I'm a few episodes behind but I don't see it as being any more moralizing than any other season. I see Who as kind of a UK Star Trek starring someone that's above our petty and arbitrary squabbles.

It's easy to think that it's preaching given our current climate but nothing strikes me as out of the ordinary.

If she only lasts a season is Bill a token character? I guess that's up for you to decide. I found her an absolute delight and she's making this the best Capaldi year. That doesn't sound token to me. It's a shame if we only have her for a year.

To me, a token character would have their other-ness front and center, something that defines them. In Bill I see a pretty well-realized character living her life. She's not defined by her sexuality, she's living her life. She's not defined by her skin color, she just happens to be alive and brown (and the only time I recall this being mentioned is her being in Victorian London which, with our white-washed history, seems like a fair concern for her).

If you like MST3000 (or rather, Rifftrax) as well as Doctor Who, and you have theaters in your area that simulcast Fathom events, check this out.

IN THEATERS AUG 17, AUG 24

RiffTrax Live: Doctor Who
The Five Doctors

The Doctor is in the house! The RiffTrax house, that is! The stars of Mystery Science Theater 3000®, Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett, are back on the big screen for a legendary riffing of the 1983 Doctor Who film "The Five Doctors." Someone is taking the Doctor's past selves out of time and space, placing them in a vast wilderness - a battle arena with a sinister tower at its center. As the various incarnations of the Doctor join forces, they learn they are in the Death Zone on their home world of Gallifrey, fighting Daleks, Cybermen, Yeti and a devious Time Lord Traitor who is using the Doctor and his companions to discover the ancient secrets of Rassilon, the first and most powerful ruler of Gallifrey.

Join Mike, Kevin and Bill as they join the Five Doctors for one of the most thrilling Doctor Who adventures ever!

A lot of the episodes featured the chatecters on "present day" earth. In reality the issues you are complaining about actually happen to real people like Bill on a daily basis.

So I dunno. Are you wanting Dr Who to has less realistic characterization?

So, Torchwood: Aleins Among Us Part 1 (AKA Torchwood Season 5, in audio drama format), recently came out via Big Finish. Highly recommended, true to form Torchwood here. The biggest thing that has me really anticipating the NEXT release (in October), is this little spoilery tidbit from the preview of Part 2:

Spoiler:

Man: Can I help you?
Rhys: Sorry mate, but you and me.. have we uh, have we met?
Man: I'm the caretaker. Bilis Manger, at your service.

Totally did not see that character coming back. One of the biggest loose ends from the original series that never got addressed (though I think the character did come into play in one of the novels).