Baldur's Gate coming back

I haven’t had a lot of time with the game yet but I am confused about the current kerfuffle. What exactly would make this game Baldur’s Gate 3 vs Divinity Original Sin 3.

Did people not expect Larian to build on their base platform or something?

Kerfuffle probably is probably taking it a little far!

It more around how the game is accommodating the D&D ruleset. At the moment it feels more like the Original Sin game into which the D&D 5e ruleset has been forced whether it works or not.

While I don’t really have an issue with that idea - I don’t really have much investment in D&D, I was a Games Workshop nerd when I were a lad - it does feel to me (and others judging from comments elsewhere online) that it doesn’t always come off.

Still it’s early access and it will evolve. I do think it’ll be interesting into how it all pans out. As I have previously said I think it’s already a fantastic game, and it really can only get better.

i'm actually tempted to house-rule "shove" as an action (probably not a bonus action like it is here) in my campaigns going forward . It's far too much fun. A contested strength check against creatures of the same size value or lower should do the trick.

pyxistyx wrote:

i'm actually tempted to house-rule "shove" as an action (probably not a bonus action like it is here) in my campaigns going forward . It's far too much fun. A contested strength check against creatures of the same size value or lower should do the trick.

Sneaking up behind people as Astarion and pushing them off cliffs / buildings / tall places with long drops behind them is never going to get old!

pyxistyx wrote:

i'm actually tempted to house-rule "shove" as an action (probably not a bonus action like it is here) in my campaigns going forward . It's far too much fun. A contested strength check against creatures of the same size value or lower should do the trick.

It's usually part of the attack action, if you can make more than 1 attack you can attempt to shove that many times. Shield Master will let you shove as a bonus action if its part of an attack

First couple of bugs tonight, not too serious (in the end) and some nice touches to how the game handles various events.

Bug wise I had a problem with throwing items (grenade types) on a specific surface - there's a fairly large battle with some spiders if you go looking in one location. However when trying to destroy spiderwebs I couldn't throw anything on them. Secondly it's a tough fight and I need to resurrect one or two people afterward. however as they were occupying the same space as dead enemies the game couldn't detect them to resurrect them..

I was a bit annoyed about that until I went back to the camp and bumped (slightly unexpectedly!) into someone I'd met earlier. He resurrects characters for a fee. I like how this is implemented in game, it felt meaningful for something that is, after all a game mechanic.

Seconded when one of the characters dies there a nice little sequence of events that you may or may not want to follow to bring them back to life. The whole scenario is again well scripted and written and brings a wry smile to the face.

I am thoroughly enjoying this experience I must say. No regrets buying into the Early Access

I saw one review that absolutely lambasted it for being grimdark (essentially) and forcing you to do terrible things at times. I am not sure how seriously to take that objection. Any thoughts?

Robear wrote:

I saw one review that absolutely lambasted it for being grimdark (essentially) and forcing you to do terrible things at times. I am not sure how seriously to take that objection. Any thoughts?

Yeah this argument.

It's because people don't listen to what they've been told before starting. Larian have said (possibly not as well as they could have done but still, it's not like they didn't warn people) that they want people to basically play at being Evil for this Early Access. All the named characters are at best neutral, probably more evil orientated or aligned with evil powers for their own reasons. That means their reactions are probably not what people were quite expecting. It's not exactly forcing you to make "bad" choices or do terrible things, it's just that those companions tend to react negatively if you try to be "nice" and people are moaning about it. Added to the apparently "urgency" to resolving your mindflayer worm issue (which in typical video game fashion it completely ignores) and some people out there are not happy.

That's not to say there are not couple of events that happen in game that are not nice (I've alluded to these before) and people are probably a little taken back by some of them, but really it's people over reacting.

So long as the storyline can handle all spectrums of roleplaying along alignments without railroading the player down particular paths without any meaning other than limited scripting.

By way of comparison, playing Wasteland 3, there is definitely limited scripting which makes the choices feel less genuine (although that said it's not a big deal for me in that game).

If you are not familiar with the D&D 5e ruleset the following summary of advantage and disadvantage in combat is really useful (or at least I think it is as someone who knows nothing about it) plus a few little extras Larian have added. I’ve taken this from the BG3 subreddit and find it very informative and useful.

Spoiler:

A guide to Advantage and Disadvantage in BG3

The more you play BG3, the more you will realize how important it is to get advantage on your attacks and avoid disadvantage.
When you have an attack prepared and are hovering over a target you will see a % to hit. On the bottom left hand corner of screen is a black box with a bit more info. You may see green up arrows indicating advantage on your attack, or red down arrows indicating disadvantage.

Advantage means you will roll to hit twice, and it will use the **higher** dice roll. Disadvantage means you roll to hit twice, and it will use the **lower** dice roll. These extra rolls can seriously hurt or help your chance to hit the target accordingly. If you have 5 sources of advantage (or disadvantage) this does not mean you roll 5 times and pick the highest (or lowest) one. You still only roll two dice.

If you have both advantage and disadvantage on the same attack (for example, you are blinded so have disadvantage, but are making a melee attack against a prone enemy so have advantage) then they cancel out. If you have 5 sources of advantage on an attack, and 1 source of disadvantage, then they **still cancel out**. The opposite applies as well. You don't keep track of "Well there's X sources of advantage which is more than Y sources of disadvantage, so I should have advantage on the attack." That's not how it works. 1 of either is enough to cancel an infinite number of the other.

**UPDATE**: Spells like sacred flame, acid splash, thunderwave, lightning bolt, etc. that force your enemy to make a saving throw are NOT attack rolls. For an attack roll you are the one rolling to see if you can get through the enemies defenses. Spells that force the enemy to make a save means that the enemy is rolling to resist the spell effects. While it is possible for your enemy to have advantage/disadvantage on saving throws, this is much more rare than advantage/disadvantage on attack rolls (what this post is all about)

###Sources of advantage:

- Attacking an enemy who can't see you (you're hidden, or they are blind)

- Attacking a prone enemy with a melee attack

- Attacking an enemy affected by a status effect like "paralyzed" from the Hold Person spell (this also automatically crits if it hits). Other effects that will give advantage include restrained or being hit by Guiding Bolt

- **Not D&D 5e official but in the game:** Making a ranged attack on an enemy who you have the high ground on

- **Not D&D 5e official but in the game:** Making a melee attack against an enemy's back (backstab)

###Sources of disadvantage:

- Making a ranged attack while an enemy is near you (called "Threatened" in BG3)

- Attacking a prone enemy with a ranged attack

- Attacking somebody affected by a spell like Blur

- Attacking an enemy you can't see (in a fog cloud, darkness, or you are blind)

- Attacking an enemy beyond the normal range of your ranged weapons. For example, a shortbow can attack enemies within 320 feet. But anything beyond 80 feet will have disadvantage

- Using a heavy weapon (greatsword, heavy crossbow, etc.) as a small race (halfling, gnome). Dwarves are NOT a small race.

- **Not D&D 5e official but in the game:** Attacking an enemy in dim light.

- One good way to get around this is to use a cantrip like dancing lights in the area around your target covered in darkness

- **Not D&D 5e official but in the game:** Making a ranged attack on an enemy who is higher up than you

There are other sources of advantage and disadvantage in D&D 5e (attacking while prone, sunlight sensitivity, dodge action, etc.) but they are not in BG3 so not worth discussing here.

That is really good to know, Sorbicol. I guess the writer didn't pay attention lol. Thanks!

Its over, I have the high ground!

The first official patch is up (as opposed to hotfix) with some interesting summary pieces about how the launch has gone for them and player experiences in the game (poor Gale)

Also SteamSpy reckons that over 1 million copies of the Early Access have been purchased on steam alone.

To give some perspective for those who don't play pen-and-paper D&D, 'advantage' and 'disadvantage' rolls were an elegant solution introduced in 5e to resolve the +/- fatigue in earlier D&D versions. Instead of players having to keep track of something giving a +2 and then a -5 and whatever else they can simple figure out if they have advantage or disadvantage or neither because they've cancelled each other out.

It makes the pen-and-paper experience faster and easier to track while still providing incentives.

I think I'm nearly "done" - or at least as done as I can be - with the early access now, there's just one area I haven't really explored yet, down to what I would call EA issues

Spoiler:

Find the "Nightsong" under the Goblin camp. That's because I killed all the leaders to help the Druids, but it's turned the rest of the camp hostile and I'm not that fussed about fighting my way back through the entire camp to get there. I do feel that Larian needs to add some sort of "bluff" attempt (or something) if nobody left alive inside the camp saw you do your murdering. But it was OK murdering, they were all bad people

Still undecided if I'll go back and do it yet.

Overall my impressions are this is a upgrade on Divinity Original Sin 2, even if half the time the spells and abilities that the D&D ruleset give you are very much more directed at pen and paper rather than a video game. I would like to see Larian work on that more but also completely understand why they can't/won't. "Shove" however, is going to become one of the greatest game mechanics ever created. It is just. so. much. fun. I suspect my "main" on release will be some sort of stealth character just so I can creep up on people and shove them off cliff faces etc. It never gets old.

If you are expecting a more "Bioware" BG experience though you aren't going to get it. I personally think both styles work, but purely personally I think I prefer this interpretation.

I am also at a point where I am taking a break form the game. I don't want to burn out before it is done and in 8 hours I got a good feel for it. I just need the completed story and all the bugs/features worked out.

The difficulty curve was really strange but I assume that is early access.