Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread

I've just got a quest which appears to be the flip side of the rachni decision (apparently I killed the queen),

Spoiler:

and it appears to be a bit of a cop-out, as they're saying it looks like some rachni still live, although I haven't done that quest yet to find out the truth of it.

I just beat the game, clocking in at 30 hours on hardcore with an imported soldier, plus 5 or 6 on multiplayer.

I am a little sad. It's just a really weird ending that I cannot really comprehend;

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seemed impossibly disconnected from the fiction of the game. It presents you with a really interesting and difficult choice, but man... where did that come from? Reminds me of Lost, but I disliked everything about how that show went about resolving problems.

I've got a hundred small compaints about this game. The worst complaint is the limited number of enemy types. It's like multiplayer poisoned singleplayer's gameplay. The shooting was good, but I miss shooting at ... diversity? That sounds racist, but you get the idea.

I need to go to sleep...

Grubber, would you mind putting your objections to the ending, maybe explaining what those choices are exactly in a PM or spoiler tags? I decided I'm out on Mass Effect 3 completely. So I know how it ends. I looked it up. I liked Mass Effect 2 less than I did Mass Effect 1. And as soon as I played the Mass Effect 3 demo and Shepard was yet again trying to convince the council of the urgency of fighting the Reapers I knew it wouldn't be for me. But I'm still curious about how the story wrapped up and I'm getting the feeling from what I'm reading that maybe I made the right choice.

One request, seeing as spoilers are great big boxes of white until you reveal them, can you label what it's about?

edit: Hmmm, seems you can't do (spoiler=stuff) in the tag.

DSGamer wrote:

Grubber, would you mind putting your objections to the ending, maybe explaining what those choices are exactly in a PM or spoiler tags? I decided I'm out on Mass Effect 3 completely. So I know how it ends. I looked it up. I liked Mass Effect 2 less than I did Mass Effect 1. And as soon as I played the Mass Effect 3 demo and Shepard was yet again trying to convince the council of the urgency of fighting the Reapers I knew it wouldn't be for me. But I'm still curious about how the story wrapped up and I'm getting the feeling from what I'm reading that maybe I made the right choice.

I'm sort of numb at the moment. Here's a link to a rather good summary of the major objections from Reddit:

The following is a list of problems with the ending to Mass Effect 3. They are spoiler heavy and unless you have beaten or do not plan to beat Mass Effect, do not read.

OP writes:

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"The issue isn't the lack of happy ending... the series was always dark although I'd say for the most part ME1 and ME2 had a pretty happy ending.
There are several major problems with the endings of ME3:
Your choices didn't matter... well okay not 100% true, your war asset does matter a tad, but not much. Stuff you've did for past 2 games as well as in ME3 get reflected mostly in your War Assets, which doesn't matter that much so they felt useless. In addition, you got problem 2.
No closure: Besides Normandy crashing on some random planet you really have no idea what happens after the end. You don't even get a text epilogue of your squadmates + people you've met throughout the game.
The endings made no sense: If the entire purpose of the Reapers were to prevent organic-synthetic warfare why provide technology (The Citadal, mass relays, etc.) which would serve to cause "chaos" to advance faster? Why did the Reapers ridicule you for being organic and simple creatures throughout the series? How the hell did your squadmates reach back to Normandy in the end? Why did the Catalyst let you pick? Why does the Catalyst even let the option of somehow destroying/controlling/synthesizing even exist in the first place? How is Shepard not angry at the Catalyst for all the pain it caused with the Reaper issue?
Magic... essentially: The origin of the Reapers was disappointing, and the whole Catalyst thing sounds like magic. The series made a lot of sense up to this point. This may have a logical explanation but that leads to problem 5.
Leave all the questions open: Despite BioWare saying that no questions will be left open there are a lot of them opened. I mean not explaining something like the Catalyst is fine in most games but not in ME3 because it pretty much just introduced this new concept then abruptly ends.
Canon: The endings, while looking similar, are in fact pretty different. The whole synthesizing itself is such a huge change to the galaxy that if the series are going to have sequels it'll force BioWare to canon an ending... which sucks because whether or not the Reapers are synthesized isn't even an avoidable issue.
Honestly it just feels like BioWare rushed the ending (evident with stock photos of Tali as well as the ending sequence) and strangely it feels like BioWare is trying to end the series and doesn't plan to revisit it ever again which seems awfully out of character with EA and a popular series."

DSGamer wrote:

Thanks. That helps a bit and that's more thorough than what I've read. What I don't get is this.

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So the Reapers are actually a force for good in the end? A twist? A necessary evil to keep the universe in balance? How did they square this with the Prometheans?

End of Game Spoilers

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The Protheans are just one organic race in a continuing cycle of birth and rebirth, so essentially, the Protheans are just as irrelevant as any other race. The trouble is the Reapers aren't good--they aren't even "free" per se. They act according to the will of some random being (God?), manifested in the form of a human child at the end of the game. Never heard of this all-powerful being? No? Neither had anyone else until the last ten minutes of the game...

I think generally, you've got the idea. The Reapers were put in place to ensure that synthetics never grow too powerful. Organics become powerful. Organics create synthetics. Synthetics surpass organics. Synthetics wipe out organics. The game never explains why synthetics would wipe out all organics, much less why that would be a bad thing (in the eyes of the all-powerful being anyway). The only twist that came toward the end was that the Illusive Man wasn't entirely crazy in thinking he could control the Reapers, but ultimately, TIM has no bearing on what you do at the very end. It's ... weird. Deus Ex Machina is the only way I can describe this.

Thanks. That helps a bit and that's more thorough than what I've read. What I don't get is this.

Spoiler:

So the Reapers are actually a force for good in the end? A twist? A necessary evil to keep the universe in balance? How did they square this with the Protheans?

Fixed my typo

Grubber788 wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Thanks. That helps a bit and that's more thorough than what I've read. What I don't get is this.

Spoiler:

So the Reapers are actually a force for good in the end? A twist? A necessary evil to keep the universe in balance? How did they square this with the Prometheans?

End of Game Spoilers

Spoiler:

The Protheans are just one organic race in a continuing cycle of birth and rebirth, so essentially, the Protheans are just as irrelevant as any other race. The trouble is the Reapers aren't good--they aren't even "free" per se. They act according to the will of some random being (God?), manifested in the form of a human child at the end of the game. Never heard of this all-powerful being? No? Neither had anyone else until the last ten minutes of the game...

I think generally, you've got the idea. The Reapers were put in place to ensure that synthetics never grow too powerful. Organics become powerful. Organics create synthetics. Synthetics surpass organics. Synthetics wipe out organics. The game never explains why synthetics would wipe out all organics, much less why that would be a bad thing (in the eyes of the all-powerful being anyway). The only twist that came toward the end was that the Illusive Man wasn't entirely crazy in thinking he could control the Reapers, but ultimately, TIM has no bearing on what you do at the very end. It's ... weird. Deus Ex Machina is the only way I can describe this.

That's unfortunate. Maybe I'll buy it on discount someday for the side stuff, otherwise...

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...that all feels way too ripped from Battlestar Galactica. And, yeah, I would be frustrated if I played through all 3 games only to find out that all of those choices wound down to which degrees of choice you were given at the end. Honestly, Fallout New Vegas wasn't much different. You can definitively side with certain factions at the end and cut off possible endings, but you almost have the ability to choose from distinct endings and distinct winners/losers based on a whim and not on things you did earlier in the game. That's unfortunate considering the promise of how the series began. Like I said, glad I skipped it for now.

Man this game doesn't pull any punches. Two former teammates dead so far and not a damn thing I could do about it.

Stele wrote:

Man this game doesn't pull any punches. Two former teammates dead so far and not a damn thing I could do about it. :(

Was one of them ...

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Grunt? If so, he does actually walk out alive if you choose to leave the Rachni queen to her death. I saved her ass in the first game, so it killed me to let her get cacked. But honestly, in the choice between awesome-dude Grunt and a giant bug, I think the choice is clear.

Michael Zenke wrote:
Stele wrote:

Man this game doesn't pull any punches. Two former teammates dead so far and not a damn thing I could do about it. :(

Was one of them ...

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Grunt? If so, he does actually walk out alive if you choose to leave the Rachni queen to her death. I saved her ass in the first game, so it killed me to let her get cacked. But honestly, in the choice between awesome-dude Grunt and a giant bug, I think the choice is clear.

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Apparently, he dies is he wasn't loyal in ME2.

Michael Zenke wrote:
Stele wrote:

Man this game doesn't pull any punches. Two former teammates dead so far and not a damn thing I could do about it. :(

Was one of them ...

Nope. Only read the first word of your spoiler, and I haven't even seen that character yet.

One I posted about on page one on a side mission with

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Hanar Diplomat on the Citadel

... the other was on a priority mission on

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Tuchanka

Also what do you guys think of the dream sequences?

Seen two so far, and really not enjoying it.

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I don't think my Shep needs to be internalized like that. The cool part of the series has been you chose Shep's motivations and actions. You were Shep. You could decide how to handle the loss of teammates or whatever else happened. Now they're throwing it in your face that you're shaken somehow about what happened in the introduction.

And now they followed that up with another nightmare forced on you when someone else dies. Ugh.

I've met both of those characters and have seen how both of them could have died but in my game they, well... didn't.

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Kasumi got blown up during the Hanar mission and after the Salarian left, Shepard said, "you can come out now." Then Kasumi dropped her cloak and went off to join a research asset.

Then I chose to save the rachni queen and got sad music as Grunt was slowly overcome by reaper rachni. Eventually he tackled one over a cliff and was gone.

...until he dragged his bloody body up to the transport and asked if anyone had anything to eat.

I chose the queen because as awesome as it was to see Grunt again, the Rachni Queen can rapidly breed an army, and hypothetically an armada. I'm glad I didn't have to lose Grunt to do it.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I've met both of those characters and have seen how both of them could have died but in my game they, well... didn't.

EDIT: Hanar Diplomat Spoiler

Spoiler:

Kasumi got blown up during the Hanar mission and after the Salarian left, Shepard said, "you can come out now." Then Kasumi dropped her cloak and went off to join a research asset.

Well that's what I expected to happen, but it didn't.

Not sure why, I had that teammate loyal and everything before. I guess I chose the Paragon route to the quest. Do they only survive on the renegade path? That would be annoying.

Yeah, it's kind of cheesy, Stele. I think they put that in for people who didn't play ME1 or ME2, to give Shepard a little depth for people who hadn't yet had the chance to create that depth themselves. If it really bothers you, you could think of it more in the context of...

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Shepard's spent the prime of her life fighting and has been forever changed, physically, mentally and psychologically. There's a quick line of dialog in there (with Dr. Chakwas, I think) that shows that Shepard's not sure if she's human or trans-human (a cyborg). Maybe Shepard isn't obsessing over this little kid because he was an innocent she tried and failed to help, maybe it's because he represents the family she's never been allowed to have, and now might be physically incapable of ever having.

Stele wrote:

Not sure why, I had that teammate loyal and everything before. I guess I chose the Paragon route to the quest. Do they only survive on the renegade path? That would be annoying.

I'm leaning pretty heavy on the Parallelogon side. I don't think that's it.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Stele wrote:

Not sure why, I had that teammate loyal and everything before. I guess I chose the Paragon route to the quest. Do they only survive on the renegade path? That would be annoying.

I'm leaning pretty heavy on the Parallelogon side. I don't think that's it.

You're also playing femShep first right? I'm doing manShep first. That would be an even weirder reason for a different outcome.

I'm playing femshep. I usually don't do a manshep playthrough because I can't stand that guy's voice.

On the Citadel has anyone started the

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Mission line for Aria to get all the gangs to help out?

And if you have

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Did you refuse to let the Asari leader of the Eclipse out of jail? It says you'll find another way to get their Eclipse's help. But I haven't seen any way to this and the quest journal doesn't update with quest progress anymore

MadcapLaugher wrote:

On the Citadel has anyone started the

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Mission line for Aria to get all the gangs to help out?

And if you have

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Did you refuse to let the Asari leader of the Eclipse out of jail? It says you'll find another way to get their Eclipse's help. But I haven't seen any way to this and the quest journal doesn't update with quest progress anymore

When in doubt, check your map. If someone new pops up, they're worth a chat. More specifically...

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You can find the second-in-command hanging out in the holding bay, I believe. He's a Salarian. It's pretty easy to convince him to take over Eclipse and get him on your side.

Yeah Lobster got it. I had the same problem, kept trying to talk to people I'd already talked to, but they kept acting like I should go to the first part again.

That's the one weird problem with the quest journal in this game. It doesn't have the step-by-step sub-info that ME2 did. So it's really hard to know what step of the quest you are on or what to do next.

Stele wrote:

That's the one weird problem with the quest journal in this game. It doesn't have the step-by-step sub-info that ME2 did. So it's really hard to know what step of the quest you are on or what to do next. :?

I hate this with a burning passion. This seems like a deliberate step backwards in terms of UI and design functionality.

Also, why did they remove the distinction between primary quests (Priorities) and secondary quests? I liked that second tab, BioWare!

Michael Zenke wrote:
Stele wrote:

That's the one weird problem with the quest journal in this game. It doesn't have the step-by-step sub-info that ME2 did. So it's really hard to know what step of the quest you are on or what to do next. :?

I hate this with a burning passion. This seems like a deliberate step backwards in terms of UI and design functionality.

Also, why did they remove the distinction between primary quests (Priorities) and secondary quests? I liked that second tab, BioWare!

Yeah as happy as I am with the ability to use my mouse wheel this time around, I'd give it back for an ME2 quest journal.

Stele wrote:

Also what do you guys think of the dream sequences?

Seen two so far, and really not enjoying it.

Max Payne Effect.

In other words, no thanks.

Not sure how to spoiler this, so I'll be real careful...

The return Citadel trip mission where

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Salarian councilor warns you about Udina

And then when you land

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Cerberus has taken over C-Sec

Ok if you finished that mission, give me a high-five because

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I got to shoot that traitor sonofabitch Udina in the heart! Hell yeah!

Another former squad mate dead?!

After the same mission in my previous post.

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Thought Thane was going to pull through, but then post-mission he was in surgery. And his son was there reading prayers.

That scene is going to be impossible to play on my femShep who romanced Thane. Impossible.

Thane...
Siha...
:(

Dammit. I love/hate this game and Bioware.

Stele wrote:

Not sure how to spoiler this, so I'll be real careful...

The return Citadel trip mission where

Spoiler:

Salarian councilor warns you about Udina

And then when you land

Spoiler:

Cerberus has taken over C-Sec

Ok if you finished that mission, give me a high-five because

Spoiler:

I got to shoot that traitor sonofabitch Udina in the heart! Hell yeah!

:cool:

Hi five. Also, speaking of that mission,

(very minor spoilers)

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who got their Mortal Kombat all up in my Mass Effect? 'Cause yo, the Illusive Man's new assassin looks like one of those cyborgs from 3 got ahold of Liu Kang and 'borged him up a little.

Just finished the DLC. We'll see how the new guy is.

Spoiler:

Poor salarians. They've been the butt of jokes for over 50 thousand years.

I'm completely with you on the ending, Grubber. It's a shame, since I really loved the game right up to that point.

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I kind of wish it had just ended with Shepard being blasted by Harbinger on the approach to the Citadel transport beam.

Maybe follow it with Anderson or Hackett with Liara/Javik or someone hiding what they've learned about the Crucible for the next cycle of organics. Then it shows the Citadel being evacuated and returned to its original location, the Reapers finishing off the last of the advanced races.

The very last scene is of a Turian falling to the ground while a lesser reptile/bird creature saunters by unscathed. Kinda cheesy, I know, but it's early and I'm sleepy.

I'm pretty sure I would've been happier with that, though that wouldn't have been difficult.

I need a button that's dedicated to hugging Tali.

Hit button - hug Tali

also

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I've seen her without her mask. I WIN THE SPACE GIRLFRIEND COMPETITION. Holy crap she's gorgeous