"Name of the Wind" - NerdCon Oct10 No Date for Book 3 Yet

The parrallel I draw for Kvothe is a Chinese acrobat. Its not totally impossible for them to perform feats of jaw dropping agility, even younger than 16, to sing well and to have a firm grasp of the different branches of science. Notice I didn't say math because quite often Kvothe will defer to I think its Willem that it lightning quick with numbers. And notice I said the branches of science because honestly that is what the magic of the universe Rothfuss created is. You have magics like chemistry, magnetism, all sorts of physics, etc. Naming is the only magic branch that I would consider high magic that is not rooted in science.

The other thing I would note is the frame of reference for his talent. Just because he is the best amongst his peers, doesn't mean he is the best in the world. The only thing he is verified to excel at amongst seasoned veteran adults is his musicianship.

@animej - I'm still only 200 pages in so I am exercising caution with reading spoilers. I'm not that big of a spoiler ninny, but I don't need to have any more incentive to come up with a sudden case of the flu to go home and read. It is taking all of my Alar not too =P

Those weren't particularly huge spoilers, they just look like it due to size. I'd say they're mild at best, with one or two exceptions if you're only a couple hundred pages in.

Ok so I just got through a section of the book where everything works out for Kvothe and it did seem very Gary Stu-esque. I think the problem is that I have gotten so used to good things having disastrous consequences for Kvothe or the environment around him.

So I am not holding my breath that the events that I just read won't backfire catastrophically for Wil, Sim, Fela, Mola and Devi. Though of the bunch, Devi is absolutely badass and able to handle the backlash without breaking a sweat. Were I not married, I think I'd be in love =P

AnimeJ wrote:

Kvothe himself says, seemingly every junction where they're in third person, that the greatest lies told about him were started by himself. The man is amazing, and that's very much the point of the novels, but he has this bizzare sense of humility as well. All in all, if nothing else I think it makes for a very interesting character, which is why I'm almost done with the second book.

Yeah, this is what makes me question the entire story.

It is completely plausible that what we're reading is a story written by an Edema Ruh to explain a huge amount of accidental occurrences while saving face.

It could just be that eventually we find out that he's just making the best of a bildungsroman.

But I doubt that's the case. Rothfuss doesn't seem like the kind of author that wants to trick you at the end or anything.

RE: "The Gary Stu" or "Fantasy Batman" point.

With every story that Kvothe tells us there's a similar pattern. Kvothe is shown something new or different, he learns it, excels at it, does something crazy/stupid/thoughtless, and there are unforseen consequences which cause harm and strife for other people.

This pattern is being used in the overall story we're getting in the books, too. So right now we're at the stage where Kvothe is kicking the sh*t out of the world. But we have glimpses during the scenes in the Waystone of the unforeseen consequences of his actions. So I predict that the next book will have a little more sh*tkicking, but we'll see the fall of Kvothe.

That'll be the end of the Kingkiller chronicles, but I figure they'll have another series where he gets his abilities or some of it back and fix what he's done.

Four days in a row now, stuck on the "Maer" section. Can't read more than a few pages before falling asleep. Very annoyed.

Okay, so I just reached chapter 52, in which:

Spoiler:

Kvothe's travels to Severen are covered by a very brief chapter which vaguely hints at some of the troubles he faced.

[spoiler]Did anybody else feel kinda cheated by this? I would have rather simply read 'my journey was uneventful up until..' And then a page-long account of him waking up with his possessions stolen near the end of the journey. It felt like Rothfuss just needed an excuse to have Kvothe be poor again, and it was kinda unnatural.[/spoiler[

Other than that though, great so far.

SommerMatt complained about that last page.

LeapingGnome wrote:

SommerMatt complained about that last page. :P

Oh really? Sorry, I've been very cautious about reading anything, for fear of spoilers.

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

SommerMatt complained about that last page. :P

Oh really? Sorry, I've been very cautious about reading anything, for fear of spoilers.

Heh. Yeah, I posted nearly the EXACT same comment you did

I got through a few dozen pages after school today while sitting around, so hopefully I can get passed this section quickly.

One other minor Female Doggo (don't read, Taco)--

Spoiler:

Come on, really? Denna just pops up out of nowhere and they just happen to bump into each other? BAH!

SommerMatt wrote:

One other minor Female Doggo (don't read, Taco)--

Spoiler:

Come on, really? Denna just pops up out of nowhere and they just happen to bump into each other? BAH!

Unless, of course...

Spoiler:

previous speculation here about Bredon being her mysterious patron is correct

Lester_King wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Kvothe himself says, seemingly every junction where they're in third person, that the greatest lies told about him were started by himself. The man is amazing, and that's very much the point of the novels, but he has this bizzare sense of humility as well. All in all, if nothing else I think it makes for a very interesting character, which is why I'm almost done with the second book.

Yeah, this is what makes me question the entire story.

It is completely plausible that what we're reading is a story written by an Edema Ruh to explain a huge amount of accidental occurrences while saving face.

It could just be that eventually we find out that he's just making the best of a bildungsroman.

But I doubt that's the case. Rothfuss doesn't seem like the kind of author that wants to trick you at the end or anything.

RE: "The Gary Stu" or "Fantasy Batman" point.

With every story that Kvothe tells us there's a similar pattern. Kvothe is shown something new or different, he learns it, excels at it, does something crazy/stupid/thoughtless, and there are unforseen consequences which cause harm and strife for other people.

This pattern is being used in the overall story we're getting in the books, too. So right now we're at the stage where Kvothe is kicking the sh*t out of the world. But we have glimpses during the scenes in the Waystone of the unforeseen consequences of his actions. So I predict that the next book will have a little more sh*tkicking, but we'll see the fall of Kvothe.

That'll be the end of the Kingkiller chronicles, but I figure they'll have another series where he gets his abilities or some of it back and fix what he's done.

Given that Kvothe himself repeats that storytelling is in the bones of the Edema Ruh, it wouldn't surprise me. As for the rest of that, I totally chalk that up to the fact that Kvothe is a stupid, stupid 17 year old(at the END!). So the fact that he's not thinking things through and continually screwing up is no surprise at all. Oh, I just had a thought while writing the bit that comes after this, but it's spoilerriffic:

Spoiler:

So during the second half of the book, those two soldiers come in that Bast has apparently hired to rough up and rob Kvothe in the hopes that he'd be able to bring him back from the brink a bit and light the fire back inside of him pursuant to what he accosted Chronicler about, right? But we see it almost completely backfire and Kvothe gets his ass whupped. So, with that all said, if Kvothe is really as good as everyone(and even he) has made himself out to be how on earth could that be? Granted, we don't know how old he actually is, and from that we're unaware of how long it's been since he's been on the road practicing everything. Regardless of all that, if he was really as good as it's said when he was younger, you'd think that he wouldn't have had nearly the hard time he did, would you?

Just throwing thoughts out there..

As for plausibility, I buy it all hook, line, sinker. But the catch is that Kvothe is *definitely* and unreliable narrator. Everything he's relaying to Chronicler is from his own perspective and is by necessity tainted by that. But with all that said, I really, really enjoy the books(broken record, yadda) and am really looking forward to the next one

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

Okay, so I just reached chapter 52, in which:

Spoiler:

Kvothe's travels to Severen are covered by a very brief chapter which vaguely hints at some of the troubles he faced.

Spoiler:

Did anybody else feel kinda cheated by this? I would have rather simply read 'my journey was uneventful up until..' And then a page-long account of him waking up with his possessions stolen near the end of the journey. It felt like Rothfuss just needed an excuse to have Kvothe be poor again, and it was kinda unnatural.

Other than that though, great so far.

Yea, that was a bit goofy, but I didn't really mind it so much. Would it have been neat to see all of that? Sure, but that wasn't what Kvothe was trying to tell, and I find that looking at it from the perspsective that Kvothe is an exceptionally skilled storyteller(Edema Ruh, right?), that he probably knows best about the story at hand(his own) and is well aware of how he wants this to be told.

AnimeJ wrote:
Spoiler:

So during the second half of the book, those two soldiers come in that Bast has apparently hired to rough up and rob Kvothe in the hopes that he'd be able to bring him back from the brink a bit and light the fire back inside of him pursuant to what he accosted Chronicler about, right? But we see it almost completely backfire and Kvothe gets his ass whupped. So, with that all said, if Kvothe is really as good as everyone(and even he) has made himself out to be how on earth could that be? Granted, we don't know how old he actually is, and from that we're unaware of how long it's been since he's been on the road practicing everything. Regardless of all that, if he was really as good as it's said when he was younger, you'd think that he wouldn't have had nearly the hard time he did, would you?

Just throwing thoughts out there..

Spoiler:

When they first started accosting him, he actually did start to fight back, landing a good hit on one of the soldiers. I think though that after the hit his mind started clicking and he realized that a simple innkeeper taking out two soldiers would arouse a great deal of suspicion. I believe that he let them kick his ass at that point, not because he couldn't have *easily* defended himself, but because by doing so he'd blow his cover.

Serengeti wrote:
Spoiler:

I believe that he let them kick his ass at that point, not because he couldn't have *easily* defended himself, but because by doing so he'd blow his cover.

That was my take on it too.

Spoiler:

I don't agree. There's a bit where he tries to do the escape move he described learning from the little girl, and is confused that it doesn't work. That's consistent with the idea that he made it up and never knew how to do it in the first place (but convinced himself for a moment that he can), or the idea that something has made him not-what-he-once-was (and he's reminded himself for a moment that he should be able to)... but it's not really consistent with him trying to avoid blowing his cover.

The only possible person he could be trying to convince is the Chronicler--he was the only person in the room who might see the move and recognize it and see that Kvothe couldn't do something that he was supposed to be able to do.

There's something else going on here.

Lester_King wrote:

But I doubt that's the case. Rothfuss doesn't seem like the kind of author that wants to trick you at the end or anything.

Spoiler:

That's my thought, as well. And someone else has probably mentioned this, but *everyone* knows who Kvothe is. *Everyone* knows Kvothe is this amazing, brilliant, good, evil, kindhearted, cruel, merciful, wicked, genuine person (depending on who you ask), and *a lot* of what Kvothe is telling Chronicler, Chronicler has heard some variant of before. The speculation I'm seeing here just doesn't make sense.

And not to mention Bast (though I will). He's clearly a powerful creature. You think a crafty manling (albeit one of the Ruh) could fool a Fae? Bast is admittedly stubborn and willful, but he's not naive, and despite the master-apprentice relationship between them, he's a hell of a lot older than Kvothe.

Kote being the legendary Kvothe just fits. And if it turns out he's a storyteller spinning some yarn or anything less than what he's told so far, most every fan out there would be disappointed, and that just ain't how Rothfuss rolls.

Don't get me wrong, him failing to best those two guardsmen didn't stick right with me either, but as I see it, either the earlier suggestion is right (not wanting to risk exposing himself), or he really is broken - which is where my money is. I expect some seriously traumatic stuff coming his way in this next book.

Edit: On the greatest lies told by him point: It's true, of course, but is that enough? Could really rumors started by himself have fashioned this reputation and legend status all by themselves? I feel like it comes back to the "lies" heard retold by patrons of the Waystone and secondary characters in Kvothe's retelling. Most of them have had their grains of truth revealed by Kvothe, and I think that's the center. He's not Taborlin the Great, but he's not simply a trouper that's fallen into fortune and ill luck, either.

I hope. God would it suck if he were. That's so not why I'm reading this. And if my estimation of Rothfuss is correct, that's not why he's writing it.

Edit 2: I really don't want to add more to this shamble of a wall, but: I just recalled one of the last lines of the book. "There, behind the tightly shuttered windows, he lifted his hands like a dancer, shifted his weight, and slowly took one single perfect step." I think this refers to the Ketan, and definitely lends credence to the 'taking the beating' theory. (I also just realized that it could mean he's practicing it again to avoid anything like that in the future. Argh, stupid possibilities.)

I'm about 60% done at this point, and I am really losing faith in Rothfuss as a storyteller. The last 40 (!) or so chapters (from 52 through 95... still reading) have felt like nothing more than padding.

OK, I get the "fantasy Batman" thing, and I can see the desire to explain in excruciating detail how he learned to eat with the right fork and how he mastered the Rothfuss-ian equivalent of Tai Chi, but what's happening now seems so completely removed from the first 50 chapters that it feels like a different book.

Between this and Dragon Age II, I'm having a rough weekend.

One last question:

Spoiler:

Are people actually intrigued and on the edge of their seat over this "who could possibly be Denna's secret benefactor!?!?!?!?!" thing? I was extremely glad Kvothe got out into the woods so I could finally be rid of her...

No. I think she is kind of annoying, like I said in my after-reading review, way too much relationship crap in this book. To much pining for her, will he/won't he crap. I could have done with a lot less of it.

SommerMatt wrote:

I'm about 60% done at this point, and I am really losing faith in Rothfuss as a storyteller. The last 40 (!) or so chapters (from 52 through 95... still reading) have felt like nothing more than padding.

OK, I get the "fantasy Batman" thing, and I can see the desire to explain in excruciating detail how he learned to eat with the right fork and how he mastered the Rothfuss-ian equivalent of Tai Chi, but what's happening now seems so completely removed from the first 50 chapters that it feels like a different book.

Between this and Dragon Age II, I'm having a rough weekend.

One last question:

Spoiler:

Are people actually intrigued and on the edge of their seat over this "who could possibly be Denna's secret benefactor!?!?!?!?!" thing? I was extremely glad Kvothe got out into the woods so I could finally be rid of her...

I didn't really see the section in Severen as padding as much as you. It was by no means as engaging as some of the high points of the book(Quit grabbing at my tits), but after blowing through Name(which had a bit of this, but by no means as pronounced), it's all part of the story. If it's all action, all the time, that gets a bit old, but by balancing it with normalcy(?), you get a sort of flow that I have found really, really wonderful to read.

AnimeJ wrote:

I didn't really see the section in Severen as padding as much as you. It was by no means as engaging as some of the high points of the book(Quit grabbing at my tits), but after blowing through Name(which had a bit of this, but by no means as pronounced), it's all part of the story. If it's all action, all the time, that gets a bit old, but by balancing it with normalcy(?), you get a sort of flow that I have found really, really wonderful to read.

I'm not really complaining about a "lack of action;" more like a lack of plot cohesion and authorial choice in deciding which events to describe and which to skip.

Spoiler:

We go from a pretty interesting and exciting plot in the university (the malfeasance, etc.) and slide from that into a weak plot about a powerful man who wants Kvothe to play Cyrano? WTH? He lost his gram, but yet nothing comes of it? Because it's now too far away? He never really says. Even with the Maer plot, we get this sort of interesting idea where Kvothe plays CSI/Sherlock Holmes over the poisoning, but it felt like Rothfuss played that out with the least possible excitement or any kind of tension-- instead of chasing that guy, let's go on moonlit strolls with Denna.

I know I'm being nit-picky, but after waiting so long it feels like Rothfuss didn't really know how to make this a cohesive 900 page narrative. Maybe it all comes together in the last third. I hope so.

I can see where you're coming from, but I saw this one as a very stream of consciousness narrative from Kvothe.

Spoiler:

So with the shipwreck? It was a crappy time, and one he didn't want to dwell on. He downplayed the poisoning as it was simply a means to an ends to him, and of no real consequence. Denna, we get a taste for when he introduces her for the first time. I fully expect there to be continued mooning over her and great expenditure of vocabulary and verbology on her behalf at every given opportunity. As for the Gram, it's of no real consequence due to distance. If Ambrose tried to use sympathy on Kvothe half the world away, he'd kill himself from the effort. Shoot, if I were Kvothe, I'd invite that.

Hyetal wrote:

Edit 2:

Spoiler:

I really don't want to add more to this shamble of a wall, but: I just recalled one of the last lines of the book. "There, behind the tightly shuttered windows, he lifted his hands like a dancer, shifted his weight, and slowly took one single perfect step." I think this refers to the Ketan, and definitely lends credence to the 'taking the beating' theory. (I also just realized that it could mean he's practicing it again to avoid anything like that in the future. Argh, stupid possibilities.)

Spoiler:

Yeah, this was an excellent end. I think it's a nod from Rothfuss to let us know that the bad-ass Present-time Kvothe will start to re-appear in the next book.

Hypatian wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't agree. There's a bit where he tries to do the escape move he described learning from the little girl, and is confused that it doesn't work. That's consistent with the idea that he made it up and never knew how to do it in the first place (but convinced himself for a moment that he can), or the idea that something has made him not-what-he-once-was (and he's reminded himself for a moment that he should be able to)... but it's not really consistent with him trying to avoid blowing his cover.

The only possible person he could be trying to convince is the Chronicler--he was the only person in the room who might see the move and recognize it and see that Kvothe couldn't do something that he was supposed to be able to do.

There's something else going on here.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I think he's "broken" in the present time. Either by changing his own Name or from someone (Haliax? an Amyr?) having changed it for him or through some kind of self-denial brought on by grief. I'm thinking that in book 3 Denna dies. They always speak of her in the past-tense during present-time. That's what's thrown him into this whole funk and not able to use Sympathy or anything. He spent three years in Tarbean grieving for his parents. I can imagine that if he was even tangentially responsible for Denna's death -at the hands of her Chandrian-esque patron? - it'd probably cause him to quit everything and hide in a little inn with his fairy student.

We do know about how old Present Kvothe is. Chronicler notices at the beginning of Name of the Wind that he's well under 30. So he's probably only ~25, I figure.

Spoiler:

I keep pinging on the idea that "Well, one of the seven is a babe..." But then I'm like "Nah, there's just no way Denna is that person." But that ties into an alternative possibility about why he's so broken up: Not that he (by some act or omission) caused his love to die, but that she betrayed him. But I think that's way too far out in "lack of evidence land" to be good speculation, really.

AnimeJ wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, but I saw this one as a very stream of consciousness narrative from Kvothe.

Spoiler:

So with the shipwreck? It was a crappy time, and one he didn't want to dwell on. He downplayed the poisoning as it was simply a means to an ends to him, and of no real consequence. Denna, we get a taste for when he introduces her for the first time. I fully expect there to be continued mooning over her and great expenditure of vocabulary and verbology on her behalf at every given opportunity. As for the Gram, it's of no real consequence due to distance. If Ambrose tried to use sympathy on Kvothe half the world away, he'd kill himself from the effort. Shoot, if I were Kvothe, I'd invite that.

Spoiler:

Ambrose can't do that, remember Kvothe destroyed the mommet of himself when he broke into the rooms.

I am enjoying the Maer section. It is a nice change of pace. Its not frantic and it has introduced a whole new set of interesting characters.

Spoiler:

Does Caudius (sp?) come back? I don't want specifics. Just a yes or no will suffice.

Chapter 52 didn't bother me

Spoiler:

though I want to read that story as much as everyone else.

The fact that he may be somewhere in the mid to late twenties puts a little perspective on things. I assumed he was around 35-40. Stuff that happened 10 years ago can seem like an eternity to a 25 year old but to the world it may as well have happened last week.

LeapingGnome wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, but I saw this one as a very stream of consciousness narrative from Kvothe.

Spoiler:

So with the shipwreck? It was a crappy time, and one he didn't want to dwell on. He downplayed the poisoning as it was simply a means to an ends to him, and of no real consequence. Denna, we get a taste for when he introduces her for the first time. I fully expect there to be continued mooning over her and great expenditure of vocabulary and verbology on her behalf at every given opportunity. As for the Gram, it's of no real consequence due to distance. If Ambrose tried to use sympathy on Kvothe half the world away, he'd kill himself from the effort. Shoot, if I were Kvothe, I'd invite that.

Spoiler:

Ambrose can't do that, remember Kvothe destroyed the mommet of himself when he broke into the rooms.

Spoiler:

Even more reason for him not to care about the gram, I'd forgotten about that somehow.

AnimeJ wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I can see where you're coming from, but I saw this one as a very stream of consciousness narrative from Kvothe.

Spoiler:

So with the shipwreck? It was a crappy time, and one he didn't want to dwell on. He downplayed the poisoning as it was simply a means to an ends to him, and of no real consequence. Denna, we get a taste for when he introduces her for the first time. I fully expect there to be continued mooning over her and great expenditure of vocabulary and verbology on her behalf at every given opportunity. As for the Gram, it's of no real consequence due to distance. If Ambrose tried to use sympathy on Kvothe half the world away, he'd kill himself from the effort. Shoot, if I were Kvothe, I'd invite that.

Spoiler:

Ambrose can't do that, remember Kvothe destroyed the mommet of himself when he broke into the rooms.

Spoiler:

Even more reason for him not to care about the gram, I'd forgotten about that somehow.

Spoiler:

I thought Ambrose was at home, which is not too far from Vintas, if I recall correctly

Holy god, this book is like a massive set of nesting dolls... plots within plots within plots that never seem to resolve themselves before rushing head-long into something else.

Spoiler:

So, we get through the Maer section (which doesn't really end) and send Kvothe to find some bandits. They finally find and kill the bandits, but now all of a sudden he's hooking up with an ancient magical fairy "siren" which is another complete 90 degree turn away from the previous plots.

Are we in INCEPTION? Is Kvothe "three levels deep"? When do we get the "kick" to send us back up to the main plot?

fangblackbone wrote:
Spoiler:

Does Caudius (sp?) come back? I don't want specifics. Just a yes or no will suffice.

Not to razz on you or nothin', but you'd probably serve yourself better if you really avoided this thread until you finished the book. Unless you enjoy teasing yourself, which is fine (this is a non-specific spoiler):

Spoiler:

Yes and no. And it's Caudicus.

I started my re-read of "The Name of the Wind" over the weekend -- finished my current book and didn't have book 8 of Jordan's in hand -- so I'll be able to look at all of these spoilers relatively soon. Couldn't resist!

Damn this book has some simply wonderful text. Having a mother that relatively recently passed away some of the language early in gets me misty.

Not to razz on you or nothin', but you'd probably serve yourself better if you really avoided this thread until you finished the book. Unless you enjoy teasing yourself, which is fine (this is a non-specific spoiler):

Perhaps you are right. I have to admit though, with how dense the book is, I fell like I have already read at least one book. I am certainly glad he didn't end this book at 500 pages but we sure are getting a ton of book for our buck with Wise Man's Fear.