"Name of the Wind" - Auri's Novella Due End of the October

At the speed he's telling this story, it will not be finished in one more book. My suspicion:

Spoiler:

The end of Book Three will be hard-pressed to get him to the inn; it might take four books to get there, and it'll take another trilogy to go any further.

Overall, I didn't think this one was quite as good as the first; it needed tightening. But he's such a wonderful writer that even relatively irrelevant bits are still fun to read.

I do have to say this (and this is a noticeable spoiler; the one above is only a tiny one):

Spoiler:

It feels like Rothfuss is trying to make fantasy Batman. By the end of Book 2, is there anything Kvothe can't do?

LeapingGnome wrote:
Hypatian wrote:
Spoiler:

Ahh, hell. The damned fool's changed his name. I wonder if that's what he's got locked in the box.

I also think it quite likely that his mother was the runaway Lackless girl...

Spoiler:

I don't think he changed his name, at least in that way. I would not be surprised if his real name is not Kvothe though, like he changed it when his parents died, Locke Lamora style. I think the chest just contains some things like his shaed and lute, maybe his Adem sword unless he sent it back to convince them he was dead. At the end it sounded like he opens it often, I wouldn't think he would do that if names were inside. Maybe a smaller box inside with other names, like some of the Chandrian?

The twists I was thinking of were his mom was Lackless, like you said, and that the guy he played tak with (Bredon?) is Denna's patron. The mention of his walking stick and then the Cthaen thing saying her patron beats her with a walking stick, and the guys trip where he just left, made me think of this.

[spoiler]I hadn't thought of the Bredon thing. That's interesting. We still really don't know who Bredon is, although I'll note that Kvothe said he'd heard rumors about Bredon's estate, which makes me wonder *why* we don't know who Bredon is. Kind of strange. On the patron front, I've kind of felt like her patron must be related to the Chandrian directly in some way... but it could be something else--like perhaps her patron is related to one of the anti-Chandrian groups we've heard mention of... I've kind of had an increasing suspicion that those various groups are not nice people either, at least not all of them.

On the "changed his name" front. The reason I think this is that I've got this increasing feeling that Kvothe actively *cannot* do things he used to be able to do. That he is actively trying to, and trying to reclaim himself somehow, but something is preventing him from doing so even when he wants to. His inability to use sympathy. His inability to open that box. His inability to convince the boy who was leaving for the army that he is Kvothe. The general feeling of malaise around him.

Combine that with having Elodin's horrified reaction when he thinks Kvothe is talking about someone who changes their "true" name... Yeah, it's going to figure heavily somewhere. You don't drop foreshadowing like that without a plan to use it.[/quote]

AnimeJ wrote:

If you haven't read Name of the Wind, I'd say get that first or you'll probably be really lost. Name of the Wind is pretty fantastic though. But if Wise Man's Fear is half as good as Name, then it'll be well worth it IMO.

Oh I read NotW when Gabe recommended it on Penny Arcade, a year or two ago. I gave in and ordered it on Mightyape when I realised I had some store credit. Can't wait, although it means I have to finish Heart of Darkness tonight.

Hypatian wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Hypatian wrote:
Spoiler:

Ahh, hell. The damned fool's changed his name. I wonder if that's what he's got locked in the box.

I also think it quite likely that his mother was the runaway Lackless girl...

Spoiler:

I don't think he changed his name, at least in that way. I would not be surprised if his real name is not Kvothe though, like he changed it when his parents died, Locke Lamora style. I think the chest just contains some things like his shaed and lute, maybe his Adem sword unless he sent it back to convince them he was dead. At the end it sounded like he opens it often, I wouldn't think he would do that if names were inside. Maybe a smaller box inside with other names, like some of the Chandrian?

The twists I was thinking of were his mom was Lackless, like you said, and that the guy he played tak with (Bredon?) is Denna's patron. The mention of his walking stick and then the Cthaen thing saying her patron beats her with a walking stick, and the guys trip where he just left, made me think of this.

[spoiler]I hadn't thought of the Bredon thing. That's interesting. We still really don't know who Bredon is, although I'll note that Kvothe said he'd heard rumors about Bredon's estate, which makes me wonder *why* we don't know who Bredon is. Kind of strange. On the patron front, I've kind of felt like her patron must be related to the Chandrian directly in some way... but it could be something else--like perhaps her patron is related to one of the anti-Chandrian groups we've heard mention of... I've kind of had an increasing suspicion that those various groups are not nice people either, at least not all of them.

On the "changed his name" front. The reason I think this is that I've got this increasing feeling that Kvothe actively *cannot* do things he used to be able to do. That he is actively trying to, and trying to reclaim himself somehow, but something is preventing him from doing so even when he wants to. His inability to use sympathy. His inability to open that box. His inability to convince the boy who was leaving for the army that he is Kvothe. The general feeling of malaise around him.

Combine that with having Elodin's horrified reaction when he thinks Kvothe is talking about someone who changes their "true" name... Yeah, it's going to figure heavily somewhere. You don't drop foreshadowing like that without a plan to use it.

[/quote]

Spoiler:

Yeah, I think someone or something has altered his name so he doesn't have all his abilities. It sounds like Bast is continually trying to force Kote into being Kvothe again -like having those two guys rob the inn.

I finished it last Thursday and really enjoyed it. I thought that his style of writing came out a lot stronger in this one. Might have to do a sequential re-read now...

By the way, I was thinking at least one of the same things you guys were, specifically:

Spoiler:

That Bredon was Denna's patron

but I somehow missed:

Spoiler:

the idea that Kvothe changing his name to Kote has deprived him of his magic.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out, but I think that second idea is probably right.

Must resist temptation to read spoilers. I'm only 100 pages in but yeah I don't see how he will finish it in one more book either. I have to say that starting to read this was like putting on an old pair of jeans that just came out of the dryer.

And that's the thing, he can only tempt me with the evil scheme going on in the present while fleshing out the history at the University for about another book. He has a lot of great characters, and I want to keep up with the ones that are largely neglected in the present. Bast, the Chronicler and the smith's apprentice kid are strong enough to be leads in stories of their own.

Welp, back to it!

Malor wrote:
Spoiler:

the idea that Kvothe changing his name to Kote has deprived him of his magic.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out, but I think that second idea is probably right.

Well, that's not *exactly* what I meant.

Spoiler:

The true name of a person is clearly different from the "use name". Much like the name of the wind isn't just "wind". What I'm suggesting is that Kvothe changed his *true name* (or it could be like Lester_King says: somebody else spoke his true name, gained mastery over him, and changed it for him). Since a true name embodies the essence of a thing, someone whose true name changes would be an essentially different person.

If it was a self-made change, the standard model for the reasoning behind it would be that he wanted to change one little thing about himself... but then only realized after the fact what a big big difference that one little thing made.

Being halfway through the spoilers are killing me >< But it's been fantastic so far, although it's a bit of a slow ramp up like Name. But when it gets rolling... whooo-wee.

AnimeJ wrote:

Being halfway through the spoilers are killing me >< But it's been fantastic so far, although it's a bit of a slow ramp up like Name. But when it gets rolling... whooo-wee.

Weird, I preferred Name's first half.

My copy came today. It's under a crate, as it came a little creased, but I cannot wait.

Another 100 pages in and I can't put it down. So many cool things happening right now and I only get an hour here a half hour there to read. And I have 800 pages more of this!

Spoiler:

Is Auri a god? You don't have to go into details. A simple yes or no will suffice. Or if you want to be cryptic, maybe works too.

Spoiler:

The developments with Elodin, his class and his knowledge of Auri are really interesting hooks. The malfeasance plot line just introduced has me on the edge of my seat. I also can't wait to hear what Kilvin wants him to build or what kind of contraption Kvothe comes up with.

I hate what Rothfuss did with this book in chapter 52.

Spoiler:

I'm about 35% done, and this chapter really hit me like a brick in the face-- he interrupts the narrative to go off on a rather random-seeming tangent. I'm sure he was aware of what he was doing with breaking the "show, not tell" rule here, but how ridiculous to spend two or three paragraphs talking about how Kvothe is suddenly broke and got into all of these adventures that he won't bother to talk about. But he WILL spend 100 more pages talking about courtly diplomacy, playing checkers, etc.

I read through the first 51 chapters in a few days, but since the shift I find myself putting it down constantly.

AnimeJ wrote:

Yea, I wasn't too thrilled with that, but it's been worth it since then. WELL worth it.

I guess I'll just have to try my best to power through, then.

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Being halfway through the spoilers are killing me >< But it's been fantastic so far, although it's a bit of a slow ramp up like Name. But when it gets rolling... whooo-wee.

Weird, I preferred Name's first half.

My copy came today. It's under a crate, as it came a little creased, but I cannot wait.

I was talking about Wise Man's Fear, which I'm now a little past 3/4 through.

SommerMatt wrote:

I hate what Rothfuss did with this book in chapter 52.

Spoiler:

I'm about 35% done, and this chapter really hit me like a brick in the face-- he interrupts the narrative to go off on a rather random-seeming tangent. I'm sure he was aware of what he was doing with breaking the "show, not tell" rule here, but how ridiculous to spend two or three paragraphs talking about how Kvothe is suddenly broke and got into all of these adventures that he won't bother to talk about. But he WILL spend 100 more pages talking about courtly diplomacy, playing checkers, etc.

I read through the first 51 chapters in a few days, but since the shift I find myself putting it down constantly.

Yea, I wasn't too thrilled with that, but it's been worth it since then. WELL worth it.

Anyway, my favorite bit so far is when

Spoiler:

Elodin finally deigns to teach Kvothe, and it's a few classes in, and he calls up Fela and Kvothe to explain love, and neither can, then relates the analogy to Kvothe as he's a man, whom this woman deeply loves, and all he wants to do is grab at her tits. "Kvothe, quit grabbing at my tits."

Yeah, AnimeJ, that line was probably the best one in the book.

re:fangblackbone's spoiler question:

[spoiler]

Is Auri a god?

No particular sign of that. She doesn't do anything supernatural that I saw. If she is, Rothfuss doesn't seem to be hinting. The bit where Elodin already knew her was important because Kvothe's calling her "Auri" was what convinced him to take Kvothe on as a student.[/quote]

Speaking of which I totally busted out laughing when

Spoiler:

Kvothe found out the name of Elodin's class.

I have to admit the desire to punch each of you in your smug, knowing face is high with all these "Oh I just loved it when..."

Spoiler:

Kvothe fellated Bast in the back of the inn while the Chandrian cavorted around them wearing Redwings jerseys and mouthing off about the glory days of Darren McCarty

I have the book, it's sitting on the shelf mocking me. But, dammit, I started Jordan's series again to see if I can power through, I'm 7 books in and I don't want to jump in the middle. Patrick, why have you done this to me?! Sure, I could stay out of the thread until I read it but then what would I complain about?

SommerMatt wrote:

I hate what Rothfuss did with this book in chapter 52.

Spoiler:

I'm about 35% done, and this chapter really hit me like a brick in the face-- he interrupts the narrative to go off on a rather random-seeming tangent. I'm sure he was aware of what he was doing with breaking the "show, not tell" rule here, but how ridiculous to spend two or three paragraphs talking about how Kvothe is suddenly broke and got into all of these adventures that he won't bother to talk about. But he WILL spend 100 more pages talking about courtly diplomacy, playing checkers, etc.

I read through the first 51 chapters in a few days, but since the shift I find myself putting it down constantly.

I think he originally wrote this all out, and then they cut it. I remember reading his blog and him talking a bunch of times about how they were working to pare down the book, cutting sections that didn't add to the story, etc. The final book is already pretty thick, I bet they cut these 100 pages and just wrote a couple of pages of summary. I agree it was a bit incongruous.

LeapingGnome wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

I hate what Rothfuss did with this book in chapter 52.

Spoiler:

I'm about 35% done, and this chapter really hit me like a brick in the face-- he interrupts the narrative to go off on a rather random-seeming tangent. I'm sure he was aware of what he was doing with breaking the "show, not tell" rule here, but how ridiculous to spend two or three paragraphs talking about how Kvothe is suddenly broke and got into all of these adventures that he won't bother to talk about. But he WILL spend 100 more pages talking about courtly diplomacy, playing checkers, etc.

I read through the first 51 chapters in a few days, but since the shift I find myself putting it down constantly.

I think he originally wrote this all out, and then they cut it. I remember reading his blog and him talking a bunch of times about how they were working to pare down the book, cutting sections that didn't add to the story, etc. The final book is already pretty thick, I bet they cut these 100 pages and just wrote a couple of pages of summary. I agree it was a bit incongruous.

This didn't really bother me for a couple reasons. First off I think the framed story style gives a lot more leeway for this sort of thing. Secondly the rest of the story is so awesome and awesomely written that I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything.

Renji wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I think he originally wrote this all out, and then they cut it. I remember reading his blog and him talking a bunch of times about how they were working to pare down the book, cutting sections that didn't add to the story, etc. The final book is already pretty thick, I bet they cut these 100 pages and just wrote a couple of pages of summary. I agree it was a bit incongruous.

This didn't really bother me for a couple reasons. First off I think the framed story style gives a lot more leeway for this sort of thing. Secondly the rest of the story is so awesome and awesomely written that I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything.

Spoiler:

I dunno. If that was the case, I'd rather he just pretend like nothing happened on the voyage instead of alluding to all of this stuff that supposedly DID. As I said, my problem with it is that the actual stuff he KEPT in here, about the Maer and his lead/silver/gold rings, his tailored suits and his sitting around a room all day are boring the living snot out of me. Maybe this is a short section, but I just can't seem to care anymore about what's going on. It seems like a totally different book.

He'll move on from there pretty quickly Matt. It gets better.

LeapingGnome wrote:

He'll move on from there pretty quickly Matt. It gets better.

OK. I'll trust you guys and keep going.

Despite Kvothe being a pretty big "Gary Stu" character, I have enjoyed both of these books so far.

SommerMatt wrote:

Despite Kvothe being a pretty big "Gary Stu" character, I have enjoyed both of these books so far.

He is, part I think that part of the appeal of the story is the "why did he give it all away and pretend to be an innkeeper", so I'm letting it pass.

Spoiler:

The time spent in the Maer's court is important because that's where he get's to learn about courtly intrigue and stuff - pretty much the same as his episode as an urchin thief in The Name of the Wind. That's not to say that it might have been able to be shorter, of course.

Malor wrote:

re:fangblackbone's spoiler question:

[spoiler]

Is Auri a god?

No particular sign of that. She doesn't do anything supernatural that I saw. If she is, Rothfuss doesn't seem to be hinting. The bit where Elodin already knew her was important because Kvothe's calling her "Auri" was what convinced him to take Kvothe on as a student.

[/quote]

I'll go further and say:

Spoiler:

She had better not be, because if Rothfuss does that (aka "pulls an Eddings"), I WILL cut someone.

Um I can see where you are coming from Matt, but Kvothe is different from a Gary Stu in that he is very fallable. He reflects often about how stupid and rash he is or was. He gives credit to luck where luck is due. Even his younger self recognizes his stupidity.

So if the Gary Stu example is Wesley Crusher, Kvothe is so much more realized than a character than Wesley.

I still think he's kind of fantasy Batman -- he's brilliant at everything he tries, and trains himself in everything.

Someone famous pointed out awhile back that every guy, up until the age of 25 or so, thinks he could be a world-class badass if only he took the time to train. I think SommerMatt's 'Gary Stu' comment sort of applies... it's wish-fulfillment for nerds.

Don't get me wrong, it has me as hooked as everyone else, but I can still recognize the trope while being enthralled by it.

fangblackbone wrote:

Um I can see where you are coming from Matt, but Kvothe is different from a Gary Stu in that he is very fallable. He reflects often about how stupid and rash he is or was. He gives credit to luck where luck is due. Even his younger self recognizes his stupidity.

So if the Gary Stu example is Wesley Crusher, Kvothe is so much more realized than a character than Wesley.

Well, I'd counter that by saying his "fallibility" and foibles only ever leads to more benefits a few pages later. Saying "oh wow, I was too dense to know all these hot girls loved me!" isn't really much of a fault

Malor wrote:

I still think he's kind of fantasy Batman -- he's brilliant at everything he tries, and trains himself in everything.

Someone famous pointed out awhile back that every guy, up until the age of 25 or so, thinks he could be a world-class badass if only he took the time to train. I think SommerMatt's 'Gary Stu' comment sort of applies... it's wish-fulfillment for nerds.

Don't get me wrong, it has me as hooked as everyone else, but I can still recognize the trope while being enthralled by it. :-)

This is pretty much my position as well. I don't think the whole thing would annoy me so much if he wasn't flipping sixteen years old... OR if Rothfuss would have backed off at least a bit. Does he HAVE to be the best musician, the strongest will, the best of everything else?

But this is a pretty old argument. Don't mean to derail the thread.

I get where you guys are coming from, but a couple of points:

Spoiler:

1. He's not the strongest sympathist. Devi whoops his ass without hardly trying.

2. He's not the best musician either; there's no way on earth he would have won his pipes without Denna.

3. He's *far* from infallible. How many things has he royally screwed up? I stopped counting before I finished reading Name of the Wind.

But with all that said, he's certainly over the top in the same way that Batman is. I mean..

Spoiler:

1. The man's cloak was sewn by Felurian from Shadows and Starlight and Moonlight for pete's sake.

2. Speaking of Felurian, he spent a freaking month screwing her 6 ways till Sunday, and it took half a day? Really?

3. He's probably the only Barbarian in the world trained in the arts of the Adem. WAY over the top there.

But with all of that said, it's fitting. Kvothe himself says, seemingly every junction where they're in third person, that the greatest lies told about him were started by himself. The man is amazing, and that's very much the point of the novels, but he has this bizzare sense of humility as well. All in all, if nothing else I think it makes for a very interesting character, which is why I'm almost done with the second book.

I am very glad to have found this series (from the Firefly thread). Just finished the first last night, and am off to download the second for the Kindle. I'm also tagging so I'll be reminded of this when book 3 comes out. I know after #2 I'm going to wish I had not discovered this series for another 2-3 years.

I just finished, and sheared, you are not joking. I deeply enjoyed the first two, and am pretty much impatient for the third.

Oh, I almost forgot... Major bonus points to Rothfuss for name-dropping "Mavin the Manyshaped".