Tebow is the Eminem of the NFL

wordsmythe wrote:

Interestingly, I think that of he were exactly the same, except black, it wouldn't be condemned. I think it would be accepted but also mostly ignored.

I can't count the number of times I've heard/read stories about Josh Hamilton and his faith. Conversely, almost all Latin-born baseball players are very overtly religious and it's rarely mentioned.

Funkenpants wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Articles like this.

Dowd is a former political operative for Bush, and the Note is a political blog. I agree that this sort of article is very silly. It's a way for them to generate page hits by posting something provocative about something in the news. I don't see that sort of thing as a huge portion of the coverage, but it's out there.

Right, but I don't read sports news at all, so all I see are facebook posts and stuff like this (whatever gets linked to). Maybe the more professional coverage of him aren't going the "christians make everything better" route, but I wouldn't know since I don't read it. So as someone completely uninvolved in the sports world, all I hear about him is the provocative stuff and whatever people post on facebook and non-sports forums. Thus, I'm sick of hearing about him because all I hear about him is people talking about his religion like it matters.

wordsmythe wrote:

Wait ... are we talking Eminem or Tebow?

I was talking Eminem.

Dysplastic wrote:

I'm not religious, but I generally don't have any issues with those who are - in fact, I find they are on average more generous and selfless than others (when they stay out of other people's bedrooms).

My problem with Tebow is with the notion that God or Jesus or whoever cares more about helping you win your football game than helping those who are actually suffering.

For what it's worth, Tebow has said in interviews that he in no way believes that God helps one team win over another. He is of the opinion that God gives the talent, and it is up to the players to use it.

Here is one statement that I could find on this.

Asked by ESPN's Skip Bayless if God makes him a better football player, Tebow would only grant that his faith gives him peace and comfort on the field.
mudbunny wrote:

Here is one statement that I could find on this.

Asked by ESPN's Skip Bayless if God makes him a better football player, Tebow would only grant that his faith gives him peace and comfort on the field.

You overlooked the crazy Tebow quote earlier in the article:

"If you're married, and you have a wife, and you really love your wife, is it good enough to only say to your wife 'I love her' the day you get married? Or should you tell her every single day when you wake up and every opportunity?

"And that's how I feel about my relationship with Jesus Christ is that it is the most important thing in my life. So any time I get an opportunity to tell him that I love him or given an opportunity to shout him out on national TV, I'm gonna take that opportunity. And so I look at it as a relationship that I have with him that I want to give him the honor and glory anytime I have the opportunity. And then right after I give him the honor and glory, I always try to give my teammates the honor and glory."

OG_slinger wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

Here is one statement that I could find on this.

Asked by ESPN's Skip Bayless if God makes him a better football player, Tebow would only grant that his faith gives him peace and comfort on the field.

You overlooked the crazy Tebow quote earlier in the article:

"If you're married, and you have a wife, and you really love your wife, is it good enough to only say to your wife 'I love her' the day you get married? Or should you tell her every single day when you wake up and every opportunity?

"And that's how I feel about my relationship with Jesus Christ is that it is the most important thing in my life. So any time I get an opportunity to tell him that I love him or given an opportunity to shout him out on national TV, I'm gonna take that opportunity. And so I look at it as a relationship that I have with him that I want to give him the honor and glory anytime I have the opportunity. And then right after I give him the honor and glory, I always try to give my teammates the honor and glory."

Sound like the classic "I am third" belief that many Christians have.

Also, what's crazy about telling your wife that you love her every day (if you truly do)?

OG_slinger wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

Here is one statement that I could find on this.

Asked by ESPN's Skip Bayless if God makes him a better football player, Tebow would only grant that his faith gives him peace and comfort on the field.

You overlooked the crazy Tebow quote earlier in the article:

"If you're married, and you have a wife, and you really love your wife, is it good enough to only say to your wife 'I love her' the day you get married? Or should you tell her every single day when you wake up and every opportunity?

"And that's how I feel about my relationship with Jesus Christ is that it is the most important thing in my life. So any time I get an opportunity to tell him that I love him or given an opportunity to shout him out on national TV, I'm gonna take that opportunity. And so I look at it as a relationship that I have with him that I want to give him the honor and glory anytime I have the opportunity. And then right after I give him the honor and glory, I always try to give my teammates the honor and glory."

I didn't overlook it, just there is nothing in there that is relevant to whether he thinks that God helps him win games. There is nothing wrong, IMO, in a christian (or muslim, or jew, wiccan or any other faith) pronouncing their faith. (Note, I am not at all religious.)

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

So you are saying that Tebow is a better husband to Jesus than you are to your wife?

Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

So you are saying that Tebow is a better husband to Jesus than you are to your wife?

I think Yonder has a point. Don't let your wife read this post or the expectations are going to go WAAAY up.

Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

So you are saying that Tebow is a better husband to Jesus than you are to your wife?

Classic mixup. Jesus is the groom.

...

Anyway.

Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

I take it that flagrant PDA isn't your "love language."

wordsmythe wrote:
Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

So you are saying that Tebow is a better husband to Jesus than you are to your wife?

Classic mixup. Jesus is the groom.

...

Anyway.

Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

I take it that flagrant PDA isn't your "love language."

Yeah. It just isn't the Asian way. For that matter, it just isn't the way of most people in possession of couth.

Paleocon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

I take it that flagrant PDA isn't your "love language."

Yeah. It just isn't the Asian way. For that matter, it just isn't the way of most people in possession of couth.

o/

Paleocon wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Yonder wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

So you are saying that Tebow is a better husband to Jesus than you are to your wife?

Classic mixup. Jesus is the groom.

...

Anyway.

Paleocon wrote:

I tell my wife I love her everyday, but I don't feel compelled to smooch the living crap out of her in front of 10 million television viewers every time I score a touchdown.

I take it that flagrant PDA isn't your "love language."

Yeah. It just isn't the Asian way. For that matter, it just isn't the way of most people in possession of couth.

I used to have couth, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

I think it's kind of interesting how we had a couple of threads about how atheists feel being "out" and look at the frenzy around Tebow. If he took the opportunity to express his lack of belief in anything except the skills of himself and his team-mates, how would it be different? I think it speaks volumes about our culture that a man who is having success, is apparently a very happy person and open/comfortable with his belief structure could be so reviled for it.

bandit0013 wrote:

I think it's kind of interesting how we had a couple of threads about how atheists feel being "out" and look at the frenzy around Tebow. If he took the opportunity to express his lack of belief in anything except the skills of himself and his team-mates, how would it be different? I think it speaks volumes about our culture that a man who is having success, is apparently a very happy person and open/comfortable with his belief structure could be so reviled for it.

He isn't reviled, the discrimination against other belief structures and non white people who share his belief structure is.

bandit0013 wrote:

I think it's kind of interesting how we had a couple of threads about how atheists feel being "out" and look at the frenzy around Tebow. If he took the opportunity to express his lack of belief in anything except the skills of himself and his team-mates, how would it be different? I think it speaks volumes about our culture that a man who is having success, is apparently a very happy person and open/comfortable with his belief structure could be so reviled for it.

He's not reviled, the attention he receives is reviled. He's by all accounts a nice kid, but he's constantly in the public eye. What this thread is about is the fact that his constant presence and the media storm about him is driven by his skin color and religious views, and that in and of itself is the problem.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
bandit0013 wrote:

I think it's kind of interesting how we had a couple of threads about how atheists feel being "out" and look at the frenzy around Tebow. If he took the opportunity to express his lack of belief in anything except the skills of himself and his team-mates, how would it be different? I think it speaks volumes about our culture that a man who is having success, is apparently a very happy person and open/comfortable with his belief structure could be so reviled for it.

He's not reviled, the attention he receives is reviled. He's by all accounts a nice kid, but he's constantly in the public eye. What this thread is about is the fact that his constant presence and the media storm about him is driven by his skin color and religious views, and that in and of itself is the problem.

Yah, I think we can all agree Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple. Dan is right - people are criticizing the attention he receives and why.

I think it is safer to say that Tim Tebow is the Sanjaya Malakar of football.

IMAGE(http://snagwiremedia.com/wickedyouth/tv_sanjaya.gif)

bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

Have you listened to the mic'd up of Tebow? He sounds like a smarmy dipsh*t when he's playing.

SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

/edit. Interesting, Dan Marino was only a 16. The average NFL QB is usually around 25.

boogle wrote:
bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

Have you listened to the mic'd up of Tebow? He sounds like a smarmy dipsh*t when he's playing.

How do you know she is a witch? "SHE LOOKS LIKE ONE"

For the record, statistically I consider him to be a poor QB. However his physical running skills allow the coach to play a system in which he can be successful. Also remember that with the lockout he hasn't had the training that he's needed since college. He used to sidearm the ball pretty bad, they corrected that a bit but if they actually remap his muscle memory into a proper throw... boy could be dangerous.

bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

/edit. Interesting, Dan Marino was only a 16. The average NFL QB is usually around 25.

I am not sure if you are telling me that Tebow in fact doesn't seem simple to me, or if you are telling me that 22 out of 50 is not simple either. Both seem difficult arguments to make.

SallyNasty wrote:
bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

/edit. Interesting, Dan Marino was only a 16. The average NFL QB is usually around 25.

I am not sure if you are telling me that Tebow in fact doesn't seem simple to me, or if you are telling me that 22 out of 50 is not simple either. Both seem difficult arguments to make.

Are you asserting that someone who scored a point above average intelligence is simple?

Convert to IQ. Average is 100, over 120 you're smart, over 140 you're damn smart. My sister, who is mentally retarded is a 76. Tebow is about a 104 based on his Wonderlic. When you use the word simple, I think someone closer on the scale to my sister, which clearly, he is not.

What I am detecting here is a common point of view I see among non-religious people that anyone who has strongly held religious beliefs can not be intelligent. It's an attitude I find offensive.

Let's not threadjack though, my point is, on the intelligence scale he's decidedly average. Just because he talks with a drawl doesn't mean his brain doesn't work.

Also given that Dan Marino is a 16 and Brian Griese is a 39, I'd say intelligence isn't a big factor in predicting QB success

bandit0013 wrote:

For the record, statistically I consider him to be a poor QB. However his physical running skills allow the coach to play a system in which he can be successful. Also remember that with the lockout he hasn't had the training that he's needed since college. He used to sidearm the ball pretty bad, they corrected that a bit but if they actually remap his muscle memory into a proper throw... boy could be dangerous.

He corrected his delivery a bit at first, but eventually fell back into his old habits. That's the kind of muscle memory that it takes thousands upon thousands of repetitions to correct, and I don't recall ever seeing anyone change their delivery that much. Based on past examples, it's effectively a lost cause. Also, he's really not that great of a runner compared to a guy like Cam Newton, which is again the point of comparison; Newton was superior to Tebow in pretty much every way this year, other than the fact that (A) Tebow played on a team with a really good defense that helped compensate for his terrible play and (B) Tebow is a white guy who says the right stuff.

His running ability does not allow him to play in a system where he can be successful, it allowed him to play in a system where for a limited set of games, his team won because a combination of excellent defense and insane luck led to last-minute wins. Call it success, sure, but what's important is sustainable success, and that's now what we saw. Denver won that Jets game because of a combination of bad Jets defensive plays and Mark Sanchez brain farts; they won the Chicago game because of a 59-yard FG plus Marion Barber doing everything he could to make Chicago lose.

Tebow was the singly worst QB in the entire league the last three weeks of the regular season, and was still one of the most-discussed players in the league. None of that talk has anything to do with his ability as a football player.

bandit0013 wrote:

For the record, statistically I consider him to be a poor QB. However his physical running skills allow the coach to play a system in which he can be successful. Also remember that with the lockout he hasn't had the training that he's needed since college. He used to sidearm the ball pretty bad, they corrected that a bit but if they actually remap his muscle memory into a proper throw... boy could be dangerous.

I doubt he will, actually. Throwing mechanics, especially when they are that far off, are nearly impossible to correct well enough to play professionally. If it was that easy, just about anyone could play QB in the NFL.

I'm not anti-Tebow because of who he is any more than I'm anti-Sanjaya Malakar from American Idol. But the simple fact is that he is occupying a starting QB job that really belongs to someone that can actually play the position. And he does so (much like Sanjaya did) because he appeals to a particular demographic enough to pander to it.

Look at the numbers. He was statistically the worst QB in all of professional football in Completion Percentage (46.5%) and Yards per Game (123.5). He was second worst only to Blaine Gabbert in First Down % (28.0%). And his QB Rating of 72.9 puts him down at #27 out of 33 and surrounded on all sides by players that will be lucky to have a paycheck next year.

These are not the numbers of a promising rookie. These are the numbers of a draft day bust. Heck Tim Freaking Couch had better numbers than that in his first season and folks still consider him the biggest draft day bust Cleveland has ever had (and that's saying a ton).

bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

/edit. Interesting, Dan Marino was only a 16. The average NFL QB is usually around 25.

I am not sure if you are telling me that Tebow in fact doesn't seem simple to me, or if you are telling me that 22 out of 50 is not simple either. Both seem difficult arguments to make.

Are you asserting that someone who scored a point above average intelligence is simple?

Convert to IQ. Average is 100, over 120 you're smart, over 140 you're damn smart. My sister, who is mentally retarded is a 76. Tebow is about a 104 based on his Wonderlic. When you use the word simple, I think someone closer on the scale to my sister, which clearly, he is not.

What I am detecting here is a common point of view I see among non-religious people that anyone who has strongly held religious beliefs can not be intelligent. It's an attitude I find offensive.

Let's not threadjack though, my point is, on the intelligence scale he's decidedly average. Just because he talks with a drawl doesn't mean his brain doesn't work.

Also given that Dan Marino is a 16 and Brian Griese is a 39, I'd say intelligence isn't a big factor in predicting QB success

I will go ahead and say that yes, if you are a 104 I consider you simple. If that makes Dan Marino simple too, well then I still hold the same position.

I am not stating that all religious people are unintelligent(obviously that is incorrect!), so don't extrapolate what isn't said. I am (I thought quite clearly - where are you at on that scale?:)) stating that Tebow seems simple (i.e. unintelligent). QBs typically come accross as the smartest guys on the field.

bandit0013 wrote:
boogle wrote:
bandit0013 wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Tebow himself seems like a nice guy, if a bit simple.

You know the NFL gives the Wonderlic test right?

50 is the highest possible score, 21 is average, generally around 14 you're talking pretty intellectually challenged.

Tebow scored a 22. Peyton Manning scored a 28. Drew Brees scored a 28. Donovan McNabb... 14.

I don't think "simple" is correct.

Have you listened to the mic'd up of Tebow? He sounds like a smarmy dipsh*t when he's playing.

How do you know she is a witch? "SHE LOOKS LIKE ONE"

Except I didn't dress him like a witch. Its his choice to not be analytical or offer anything of substance in his on field conversations with teammates. No "Man, I need you to cut earlier on that slant route", all "You'll get it next time! You'll catch the game winning catch!".

Paleocon wrote:

I think it is safer to say that Tim Tebow is the Sanjaya Malakar of football.

IMAGE(http://snagwiremedia.com/wickedyouth/tv_sanjaya.gif)

we have a winner.