The size debate: standards of beauty

Seth wrote:
I was 5 when this picture was taken:

[IMAGE 1]

I was 30 when this one was taken.

[IMAGE 2]

That defies understanding.

And people call me crazy when I say, "Time travel is possible, the evidence is all around us!"....

https://www.adobe.com/products/photo...

I'm sure another factor will be that seeing as her physical image is her asset, she's going to take care of herself to an abnormal degree.

Duoae wrote:
Seth wrote:
I was 5 when this picture was taken:

[IMAGE 1]

I was 30 when this one was taken.

[IMAGE 2]

That defies understanding.

And people call me crazy when I say, "Time travel is possible, the evidence is all around us!"....

Jack Donaghy wrote:

Rich 50 is middle class 38.

Seth wrote:
I was 5 when this picture was taken:

I was 30 when this one was taken.

That defies understanding.

Easy: Fotoshop by Adobé

Apropos of nothing, there's several different definitions of 'ideal' size, and they most likely imply different sizes. There's the size that you're healthiest at, the size that you're happiest at, the size that you feel you look your best at.

I'm more concerned about my shape than my size. My shape today is alarmingly bent.

Paleocon wrote:
momgamer wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
momgamer wrote:
...fudge bars and you can't vote with your wallet if there's only one choice on the ballot

...insanely cool word and a great perspective on the problem from the standpoint of race instead of gender and size, plus a list of hot Asian guys...

... my volley back....

... even more good points...

I never would have made that comparison between you and Emil - you have a much stronger jaw than him judging by your wedding photo posted here. But I guess I can sort of see it.

What you see as attractive vs. what you percieve yourself to be are different things entirely. To keep it on my own terms, I think Dame Judi Dench is amazing. But even though we look a lot alike I don't see myself that way (the fact that she's 20-some-odd years older than me and still looks that good is another wrinkle here they've been highlighting with those Cyndi Crawford pics). The image Mex posted above with that girl in the bikini redlined for flaws is along the lines of what I'm talking about. You see a healthy young lady making the most of a rather nice rack, and I do too. But if she was looking at it, her internal monologue would look like those redlines. Though I have to say that pic is a little kind - a real girl would have found a LOT more wrong with herself. Take that sort of critical eye and add in a girl's tendency to internalize the results and the external yardstick coming off the cover of Cosmopolitan, Seventeen and various red carpets.

Now, as you point out, boys do look at themselves as well and it's not always kind. I raised my sons and heard their conversations with the mirror through the bathroom door. And that's even though my sons are gorgeous and they've both inherited their father's extroverted personality. I'm not in any way denegrating the struggles guys have, particularly in their teenage years. I remember when the fourth or fifth Harry Potter film came out and we all got to see what cruelty puberty inflicted on poor Tom Felton. Nothing matched there for a while. He seems to be mostly over it now and it seems to have turned out well but I can imagine his conversations with the mirror growing up.

In order to stop this we have to change the girl's perception of herself against her internal worldview model and constant reinforcement by the outside world. I think it's why so many people focus on those fashion magazines as being "the problem" - they can't do much about her head but they think if they can adjust the yardstick it would help. I'm not sure. From where I sit a lot more of the problem comes from other people's words and actions in daily life. That in turn affects the media representations of things and it all rolls around until it bites itself in the ass like a douch-canoe Mobius strip.

People can and should do more to be healthy. There's no disagreement there. It's part of my frustration with the people in line at Dairy Queen. I AM doing the things I need to do to become more healthy, but I'm still getting the same crap I always got 80 pounds ago and it does not frelling help. I realize with my head that they can't know that. They don't know me from Adam's stepson so they don't see how far I've come. All they see is the work left to do. But knowing that with my head isn't as helpful as one would hope.

And yes, taking care with your appearance does help. But even that can be more complicated for women. If you're in the technical fields, the better dressed you are the more you are percieved as being useless. People who really do the work do not dress up. Secretaries, executives, and marketing people do. I lose percieved IQ points for every button on my blouse, and I'm already on shaky footing because it is a blouse. This pervades the whole area I live in. If I walk into Gamestop in my interview clothes I get treated as a clueless soccer mom unless one of gang I know is working that day. If I walk in wearing one of my Enforcer shirts, it's a whole different experience.

The location thing is also important, as you point out. The west coast has a lot more coming in from Asia and that shapes the prevailing views. When I was in school one of the most popular and "hottest" kids was an Alaska native. He's still hot, by the way. My friend who still lives in that town sent me a pic of his sister's third wedding a couple weeks ago and he's still got it (he's also got a wife and five kids now).

And to make it more complicated, everyone is different in their assessment of "hotness". The Twilight effect at least partly motivated my Japanese friend who first sent me a link to one of Eru's videos and my daughter's reaction (who would be mortally offended to know that we used that term to describe it), but that isn't why I can agree Eru is hot. I like his music a lot. He's a heck of a songwriter. Or to choose a more graphic example, there's a latin actor/muscician named Chayanne. He played opposite Vanessa Williams in "Dance With me". Guy does a very good movie-star smolder (and you hate to see him go but you LOVE to watch him leave), but to me the best pics on the linked page are the ones with that incredible daffy grin he gets when he is truly laughing.

Real is a powerful thing for people. I doubt sincerely that Monochelli would have thought that some people would have found that pic he posted in the PAX East thread with his son in his lap holding onto the Lost Cities cards as "hot". But according to the gal at church who saw it over my shoulder Wednesday night it was. And that scrunched smile in your wedding photo when you let her paste you with the cake like that is very hot. Straight up, no smiley.

Then just to put snow on the mountain, just because you appreciate the landscape it often doesn't translate to real world action. My elder daughter's new boyfriend who she is besotted with to a ridiculous degree is a 6'7", rawboned ginger so white it would be more accurate if the boy entered "translucent" on any form asking for color/race. I think he is handsome in his own way, but if Lurch Adams had a real red-headed step child it would look something like him.

gore wrote:
Seth wrote:
I was 5 when this picture was taken:

I was 30 when this one was taken.

That defies understanding.

Easy: Fotoshop by Adobé

It's so much more than that. Photoshop isn't much of a player in the non-still-picture world. I intentionally picked Crawford because not only is she beautiful, she makes a lot of money selling the promise of agelessness that she personifies. And Meaningful Beauty is just another cog. You have to look at the the entire cosmetic surgery industry and the weightloss industry (both the chemical and the physical sides) as well. Cindy Crawford is amazing in real life. Photoshop has nothing to do with that.

momgamer wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
momgamer wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
momgamer wrote:
...fudge bars and you can't vote with your wallet if there's only one choice on the ballot

...insanely cool word and a great perspective on the problem from the standpoint of race instead of gender and size, plus a list of hot Asian guys...

... my volley back....

... even more good points...

Lots of stuff.

First :blush:

Second, I get the whole internalizing thing. It took me a while and a bunch of women asking me out to finally get the message that perhaps it was the folks I grew up around that were full of crap and that I needed to get the whole "Asian men aren't hot" business out of my own head. It took even longer to get the whole "Asian American girls aren't into Asian American guys" business out. Different story. Trust me though, it gets pretty messed up inside the whole sexual/racial politics business.

Ultimately though, the world is a freaking big place and its, ironically, even bigger and more diverse now because of the explosion of available media. And if you can't find folks to surround yourself with that get you and you can trust to have your psychic back, you're not trying terribly hard. I agree it fcuking sucks being in high school because it is basically just prison. But once you're out of school, you pretty much have the resources to program and rewire you mind however you choose to.

For me, it took a decade or so of acting like Barney Stinson before I got comfortable enough with who I was to find the woman who wouldn't take my crap.

http://vimeo.com/34813864

I'll just leave this here, it makes me laugh.

I'm more into firm curves. See, when I look at the anorexic style models I don't really see much difference in body shape between them and junior high boys. It's really kinda nasty. The thing to me that makes a woman womanly is curves in the right places.

/edit damnit, someone linked it already.

bandit0013 wrote:
See, when I look at the anorexic style models I don't really see much difference in body shape between them and junior high boys.

Runway models are supposed to be androgynous, because the focus is on the clothes. Runway models are also not the norm; they are a niche just like plus size models.

Seth wrote:
using this article as a launching pad, I'm curious to see the opinions on the role the adult entertainment industry plays on body image.

a source for the article above wrote:
Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. …Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as strippers, Playboy models, and prostitutes. The men who, now as customers, physically and visually invade the adult women’s bodies, reenact the role of the perpetrator. These women work in the sex industry because it feels like home.

This doesn't conform specifically to the size issue, and I can make another topic if requested, but it's related to body image. How does the modern sex industry influence female body image?

I would consider this a much bigger problem than anorexic models.

Somewhat related, but probably different enough to warrant a different thread entirely. Conflating the two issues may actually do more damage than good here.

ignore this, it's in another thread.

IMAGE(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/fieldsofclover/Screenshot2012-01-20at80433PM.png)

FML, indeed.

and the 1800 plus people who said she deserved it.

I'd add here, but momgamer's pretty much spoken any opinion I would have, but I'm thrilled to see the discussion being had here without it devolving into so much of the BS I see in other places.

It was such a fantastic stuff…..
flowers delivery netherlands

clover wrote:
IMAGE(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/fieldsofclover/Screenshot2012-01-20at80433PM.png)

Sounds like time to get a new boyfriend.

If god gives you lemons, find a new god.

clover wrote:
IMAGE(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/fieldsofclover/Screenshot2012-01-20at80433PM.png)

momgamer wrote:
FML, indeed.

and the 1800 plus people who said she deserved it.

There is an argument that if you willfully and knowingly continue in a relationship with a douchebag, to some extent, you're inviting being treated in a douchey fashion.

Either way, time to brush up that OK Cupid profile!

Jonman wrote:
clover wrote:
IMAGE(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/fieldsofclover/Screenshot2012-01-20at80433PM.png)

momgamer wrote:
FML, indeed.

and the 1800 plus people who said she deserved it.

There is an argument that if you willfully and knowingly continue in a relationship with a douchebag, to some extent, you're inviting being treated in a douchey fashion.

Either way, time to brush up that OK Cupid profile!

Something tells me the voters on fmylife.com aren't that mature..

Richard Feynman was doing a nude sketch of Playboy model when she complained about one aspect of her physique. He had to get a book and show her 'flaw' was actually normal.

It's a shame women won't let themselves be loved for who they are.

Yes, what a shame they won't allow it. They should do something about that.

IMAGE(http://chicksontheright.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif)

I have every sympathy for men and women that worry about their looks, and are abused because of them. While we can call for change in the media and advertising, the best chance we have of happiness is trying to come to terms with ourselves.

It's not just a weight issue alone. What do you do if you don't have a beautiful face? If you wear glasses? If your eyes are a dull brown rather than a beautiful clear blue? If you aren't gifted with rich, luxurious hair? You look at a model on the cover of a magazine or many actors or actresses, they're just gifted with physical qualities that people consider attractive. I don't see a way around that. Part of the fashion of beauty is possessing physical qualities that most other people lack.

Beautiful, tall, people have easier lives, earn more, are trusted more and all sorts of other sh*t.

Choose your parents carefully.

Funkenpants wrote:
It's not just a weight issue alone. What do you do if you don't have a beautiful face? If you wear glasses? If your eyes are a dull brown rather than a beautiful clear blue? If you aren't gifted with rich, luxurious hair? You look at a model on the cover of a magazine or many actors or actresses, they're just gifted with physical qualities that people consider attractive. I don't see a way around that. Part of the fashion of beauty is possessing physical qualities that most other people lack.

Whoa, I object. Women with glasses are hot.

Thirteenth wrote:
Whoa, I object. Women with glasses are hot.

Yeah, that is definitely a thing.

Thirteenth wrote:
Whoa, I object. Women with glasses are hot.

Yeah, I like that pretty girl with glasses look, too. But enough people don't agree to make it a big thing in magazines.

Personal pet peeve of the weekend: Tall women who complain about being tall but say 'I don't want to date someone shorter than me...or someone over 6'2" '.

TL;DR I'm tired of dating short women.